10/1/2025 1:08 PM Tigers @ Guardians AL Wild Card Game 2

[romad1]

They shouldn't even be playing in this series.  But they have a chance to move on tomorrow. 

[1776]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You know what Casey Mize is thinking: "If you'd given me two more innings you'd have never had gotten to Melton..."

He's probably wrong but you know that's what he is thinking.

I do wonder what his take on this is. 

[RedRamage]

44 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

You didn't see it that time either.  It was barely a foot and a half outside.

Bah! I don't need reality. I want to be the old man yelling at the clouds.

But also, a foot and a half outside and swing at it isn't much better.

[monkeytargets39]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You know what Casey Mize is thinking: "If you'd given me two more innings you'd have never had gotten to Melton..."

He's probably wrong but you know that's what he is thinking.

With how awful our pen is, starters shouldn’t be getting pulled unless they’re getting shelled or over 100 pitches.  Mize should be annoyed.

[gehringer_2]

Just now, motownblues said:

Maybe bring in major league hitters next year.

It has been disappointed that Tork and Dingler are the only young players who have exceeded last season's productivity. The rest all plateaued or regressed (Sweeney, Perez, Greene, Meadows, JHM, Keith, Carpenter). McKinstry and Baez had good season's by their own standards, but they're vets not Tiger system guys.

[RedRamage]

39 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Well was a weird season

Too bad we couldn't have matched up last years second half with this years first half.

[IdahoBert]

This is so disappointing. I don’t know if this team has merely peaked and been figured out and are unable to make adjustments or not. Torkelson made adjustments last year. Can the rest of them who still remain do that?

Last year‘s run and the first part of this season for a goodly amount of time seemed too good to be true and I guess it was.

Maybe rolling the dice on the odds and riding a wave of team spirit or whatever doesn’t have a lasting shelf life. They no longer look like the same ball club we got used to.

[Motor City Sonics]

6 minutes ago, romad1 said:

They shouldn't even be playing in this series.  But they have a chance to move on tomorrow. 

Well they will be - one way or another. 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Too bad we couldn't have matched up last years second half with this years first half.

Then again, the team with the record for most wins in a season in the modern era washed out after one round in the playoffs and has never been to the WS.

Edited October 1 by gehringer_2

[lordstanley]

By my count, the Tigers have scored 2 or fewer runs in 9 of their past 13 games, have scored 3 or fewer runs in 11 of their past 13 games and haven’t scored 6 runs or more in their past 18 games.  

[Biff Mayhem]

12 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

By my count, the Tigers have scored 2 or fewer runs in 9 of their past 13 games, have scored 3 or fewer runs in 11 of their past 13 games and haven’t scored 6 runs or more in their past 18 games.  

34 runs in the last 14. 

[motownblues]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It has been disappointed that Tork and Dingler are the only young players who have exceeded last season's productivity. The rest all plateaued or regressed (Sweeney, Perez, Greene, Meadows, JHM, Keith, Carpenter). McKinstry and Baez had good season's by their own standards, but they're vets not Tiger system guys.

What matters is crunch time. What a player does when it matters the most. Up to this point all of them have failed.

[romad1]

1 minute ago, Biff Mayhem said:

34 runs in the last 14. 

So they are duuuue

[RedRamage]

I don't want to be "overreaction" guy, but... do any of these guys really strike you a solid pieces to build around?

1. Baez? No.
2. Carpenter? Maybe.
3. Dingler? Probably yes. He's a good catcher and provides enough offense to be a core player.
4. Greene? Probably yes, but man he's streaky as all get out.
5. Ibanez? No.
6. Jones? No.
7. Jung? Not right now, no. I mean he might turn it around but right now he's not getting it done.
8. Keith? Maybe.
9. Malloy? No.
10. McKinstry? No. He's a good utility guy and had a career year, but he's not a core player.
11. Meadows? Too early to tell, but he had an awful year, so not someone I'm counting on.
12. Perez? I dunno, Maybe?
13. Rogers? No. Too old to be a "build around guy," plus not great offensively. Good back up.
14. Sweeny? No.
15. Torres? No.
16. Torkelson? Not really, no. 
17. Vierling? Maybe... if he can stay healthy?

17 position players and I only have two that I'd say I'd be comfortable with their production from this year moving forward... and one of those is as much about his defense as it is his offense, while the other is so streaky that Windex turns around and runs away whenever it seems him.

4 Maybes... and 11 nos.

Now, it's certainly possible that some of those nos still figure it out. Many of them are still in their mid 20s so there's a bit of time yet... but goodness I just don't have faith right now that many of them will figure it out, I just don't.

[alex]

27 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

No Smith or Gaddis tomorrow, probably. The Cleveland BP may be kinda light.

I think Vogt may still use them. However, even if they are on fumes can we even hit them (or anybody) with runners on? Never in all my years have I seen such horrible hitting with men on. No change in approach even if they are somewhat capable (esp Tork lately, nothing oppo).

They lack on field leadership. Harris (another question of his ability again here) did the team a disservice at the deadline. I said at the time I was pleasantly surprised that he even managed to get deals done (it is a start for him). He has shown NO ability to acquire MLB talent unless the player/agent approaches him (ala FA Torres). If he has to actually 'negotiate' it - seems not much of a chance (see Bregman). I still think Greenberg has a his place at Jimmy John's Field.

Yes, Harris has done many good things: facilities, nutrition and physiology upgrade on staff, minor league development, etc. However, if he cannot bring in talented proven players (I do not mean Ps who are trying to rebound) by trades and FAs then this team will be in trouble until the next regime takes over. 

The Tigers have a chance still to move forward still this year. They have to hit. Tom Verducci mentioned last week paraphrasing 'The book is out on Detroit. Do not throw too many FBs and use a lot of spin.'

The Skubal window IS real. Without him, imho, they are not even a .500 team. If Harris thinks a couple/few prospects with some contact skills are going to change this team into a perennial contender - then he will learn soon and fans will again be waiting on the next GM/CEO.

The old adage, develop a core and add to it? Well, one was/is there. Harris did not do enough in the off season nor at the deadline. He has to be able to add talented MLB players. To play 'kick the can' (ex wait til the next core group comes in) - anyone can do that game. Ilitch has to step in - perhaps he is more hands off as I fear it is Yzerman autonomy all over again with Harris.

[SeattleMike]

43 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

It has been disappointed that Tork and Dingler are the only young players who have exceeded last season's productivity. The rest all plateaued or regressed (Sweeney, Perez, Greene, Meadows, JHM, Keith, Carpenter). McKinstry and Baez had good season's by their own standards, but they're vets not Tiger system guys.

Statistically, Perez had a better year this year than last. But his last 60 PAs have been so bad one could argue that he belongs on the list of guys who failed to improve year over year. 

[Sports_Freak]

47 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Bah! I don't need reality. I want to be the old man yelling at the clouds.

But also, a foot and a half outside and swing at it isn't much better.

I think it was sarcastic? "It was 3 feet outside!!"  "No, only a foot and a half"

[GalagaGuy]

Hinch had the quick hook with Mize because teams tend to tear him up the third trip through the lineup.  Being the Tigers can't score, Hinch was trying to avoid going down by a couple runs.  Worked for a while at least.   

[gehringer_2]

27 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I don't want to be "overreaction" guy, but... do any of these guys really strike you a solid pieces to build around?

1. Baez? No.
2. Carpenter? Maybe.
3. Dingler? Probably yes. He's a good catcher and provides enough offense to be a core player.
4. Greene? Probably yes, but man he's streaky as all get out.
5. Ibanez? No.
6. Jones? No.
7. Jung? Not right now, no. I mean he might turn it around but right now he's not getting it done.
8. Keith? Maybe.
9. Malloy? No.
10. McKinstry? No. He's a good utility guy and had a career year, but he's not a core player.
11. Meadows? Too early to tell, but he had an awful year, so not someone I'm counting on.
12. Perez? I dunno, Maybe?
13. Rogers? No. Too old to be a "build around guy," plus not great offensively. Good back up.
14. Sweeny? No.
15. Torres? No.
16. Torkelson? Not really, no. 
17. Vierling? Maybe... if he can stay healthy?

17 position players and I only have two that I'd say I'd be comfortable with their production from this year moving forward... and one of those is as much about his defense as it is his offense, while the other is so streaky that Windex turns around and runs away whenever it seems him.

4 Maybes... and 11 nos.

Now, it's certainly possible that some of those nos still figure it out. Many of them are still in their mid 20s so there's a bit of time yet... but goodness I just don't have faith right now that many of them will figure it out, I just don't.

I'll disagree on Torkelson. He's above average production, plays his position well and stays in the line-up. He's not going to be an all-star but he's a solid ballplayer. You need that profile. Keith I think is going to be fine, I think his bat to ball skill will play as his power develops and he'll be more of an asset at 3rd than his meh range made him at 2nd. I think he and Tork both have pretty good zone judgement and so will be helped more than average by the robo-ump.

I think Torres is a solid ball-player but it's immaterial in his case because he is gone.

Meadows is a disappointment. I think he needs a whole stance revamp because he cannot cover his long body's K zone. Maybe get into more of a crouch (I know, the TIger theories like like stand-up hitters 🤷‍♂️)

OTOH - I'm not a big fan of Perez - too many mental lapses regardless of whether his bat come around or not - which isn't looking all that likely - they love him for now since he's a switch hitter and they don't have any others.

Pretty much agree on the rest - I do assume Riley will get his head out of his *** as a hitter this off-season. The talent is there. It would be big blow if he can't get back to <25% Ks.

Overall pretty thin. If Anderson and McGonigle (Clark even?) could be solid bats at some point next season - they could get back to more normal offensive output but it's not there right now.

Edited October 1 by gehringer_2

[SeattleMike]

4 minutes ago, alex said:

I think Vogt may still use them. However, even if they are on fumes can we even hit them (or anybody) with runners on? Never in all my years have I seen such horrible hitting with men on. No change in approach even if they are somewhat capable (esp Tork lately, nothing oppo).

They lack on field leadership. Harris (another question of his ability again here) did the team a disservice at the deadline. I said at the time I was pleasantly surprised that he even managed to get deals done (it is a start for him). He has shown NO ability to acquire MLB talent unless the player/agent approaches him (ala FA Torres). If he has to actually 'negotiate' it - seems not much of a chance (see Bregman). I still think Greenberg has a his place at Jimmy John's Field.

Yes, Harris has done many good things: facilities, nutrition and physiology upgrade on staff, minor league development, etc. However, if he cannot bring in talented proven players (I do not mean Ps who are trying to rebound) by trades and FAs then this team will be in trouble until the next regime takes over. 

The Tigers have a chance still to move forward still this year. They have to hit. Tom Verducci mentioned last week paraphrasing 'The book is out on Detroit. Do not throw too many FBs and use a lot of spin.'

The Skubal window IS real. Without him, imho, they are not even a .500 team. If Harris thinks a couple/few prospects with some contact skills are going to change this team into a perennial contender - then he will learn soon and fans will again be waiting on the next GM/CEO.

The old adage, develop a core and add to it? Well, one was/is there. Harris did not do enough in the off season nor at the deadline. He has to be able to add talented MLB players. To play 'kick the can' (ex wait til the next core group comes in) - anyone can do that game. Ilitch has to step in - perhaps he is more hands off as I fear it is Yzerman autonomy all over again with Harris.

So it took the league five months to figure out how to pitch to the Tigers? I'm not buying it. I think this is just one of those weird baseball things. Almost everyone slumping at once. 

[Sports_Freak]

47 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

This is so disappointing. I don’t know if this team has merely peaked and been figured out and are unable to make adjustments or not. Torkelson made adjustments last year. Can the rest of them who still remain do that?

Last year‘s run and the first part of this season for a goodly amount of time seemed too good to be true and I guess it was.

Maybe rolling the dice on the odds and riding a wave of team spirit or whatever doesn’t have a lasting shelf life. They no longer look like the same ball club we got used to.

My theory is that Greene and the coaches know he has to rework his swing. But doing it during the season may not be possible. Maybe he'll rework it during the off season? His huge amount of strikeouts may be the only thing stopping him from becoming a huge star.

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

So it took the league five months to figure out how to pitch to the Tigers? I'm not buying it. I think this is just one of those weird baseball things. Almost everyone slumping at once. 

They've gotten back into the habit of giving away too many 1st pitch strikes. You have to be ready to hit the 1st strike or you are in a hole. You can still work counts without always taking the 1st one.

Edited October 1 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

13 minutes ago, alex said:

I think Vogt may still use them. However, even if they are on fumes can we even hit them (or anybody) with runners on? Never in all my years have I seen such horrible hitting with men on. No change in approach even if they are somewhat capable (esp Tork lately, nothing oppo).

They lack on field leadership. Harris (another question of his ability again here) did the team a disservice at the deadline. I said at the time I was pleasantly surprised that he even managed to get deals done (it is a start for him). He has shown NO ability to acquire MLB talent unless the player/agent approaches him (ala FA Torres). If he has to actually 'negotiate' it - seems not much of a chance (see Bregman). I still think Greenberg has a his place at Jimmy John's Field.

Yes, Harris has done many good things: facilities, nutrition and physiology upgrade on staff, minor league development, etc. However, if he cannot bring in talented proven players (I do not mean Ps who are trying to rebound) by trades and FAs then this team will be in trouble until the next regime takes over. 

The Tigers have a chance still to move forward still this year. They have to hit. Tom Verducci mentioned last week paraphrasing 'The book is out on Detroit. Do not throw too many FBs and use a lot of spin.'

The Skubal window IS real. Without him, imho, they are not even a .500 team. If Harris thinks a couple/few prospects with some contact skills are going to change this team into a perennial contender - then he will learn soon and fans will again be waiting on the next GM/CEO.

The old adage, develop a core and add to it? Well, one was/is there. Harris did not do enough in the off season nor at the deadline. He has to be able to add talented MLB players. To play 'kick the can' (ex wait til the next core group comes in) - anyone can do that game. Ilitch has to step in - perhaps he is more hands off as I fear it is Yzerman autonomy all over again with Harris.

I agree about Harris. His trades, or lack of trades, is very underwhelming. Very. And signing free agents who are coming off of injuries or on prove it contracts have mostly been a total waste of precious resources. Most Tiger fans would rather see quality over quantity. But that just may be unfair to Harris. We just don't know if he's allowed to spend the big, big dollars it would take to bring in quality players. We just...don't know.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

My theory is that Greene and the coaches know he has to rework his swing. But doing it during the season may not be possible. Maybe he'll rework it during the off season? His huge amount of strikeouts may be the only thing stopping him from becoming a huge star.

My only question would be whether someone was paying attention to what he doing in the off-season last year that no-one thought to push back on the extreme swing path. It was pretty predictable that was going to lead to holes that pitchers would exploit. 

[Sports_Freak]

19 minutes ago, alex said:

I think Vogt may still use them. 

Tuesday; Gaddis 19 pitches. Smith 19 pitches.  Wednesday; Gaddis 20 pitches. Smith 31 pitches.

I would be a bit surprised if either are used tomorrow.