10/8/25 Mariners @ Tigers 3:08 PM ALDS Game 4

[Screwball]

8 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I have ZERO problem with the Mariners trying to steal signals. It's part of the game, always has been, always will be. 

I don't think I inferred I do either.

Edited October 9 by Screwball

[MichiganCardinal]

10 minutes ago, KL2 said:

Even the worst NFL game out preforms basbeall. There is no debate. 

Nationwide yes. Tigers/Jays on FOX would pull eyes away from CBS in the Detroit market. Titans/Raiders would not.

Edited October 9 by MichiganCardinal

[monkeytargets39]

Looks like he’s mostly showing likely pitch location- up/inside/outside based on where Dingler starts to set up.  

[oblong]

1 minute ago, Screwball said:

This is the clip some of the articles are referring to. I can't say it shows much to be honest.

 

yeah... a pitcher doesn't like it.

I remember years ago when the ump called the runner safe because the 2B didn't have his foot on the bag while turning 2.  It was on ESPN. They showed the replay to confirm the safe call and Jon Miller is explaining "Well it's foot's not on the bag, how can you call him out?" and Joe Morgan's disputing it.  "As a second baseman, I don't like it...."

and this wasn't a transition thing where the foot goes over the top of the bag while catching and getting out of the way.  He was stationary and just standing there....   

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I have ZERO problem with the Mariners trying to steal signals. It's part of the game, always has been, always will be. 

I think it's accepted as part of the game as long as it's players on the field doing it manually.  It becomes a problem if someone off the field is aiding them especially if it's done electronically. By accepted, I mean the opponent is going to hate it and they may punish you, but it's not considered cheating.  

[RedRamage]

13 minutes ago, Screwball said:

I don't think I inferred I do either.

Wasn't trying to say you did have a problem with it at all, just saying that I have zero problem with it.

[Screwball]

Wasn't there a controversy years ago that a guy in the Green Monster at Fenway was signaling pitches? It was a long time ago, but something like that.

I get a kick out of the "old school" of someone would get drilled stuff. I don't think they do that anymore, do they? That's why they wear all that armour. 

[Screwball]

2 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

Wasn't trying to say you did have a problem with it at all, just saying that I have zero problem with it.

Neither do I. It's part of the game and fun as well. My high school kids were like vultures. They loved it.

[Shinzaki]

Did Naylor actually tag Carp or just hit him with his forearm?

[TigerNation]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

To the bold: that is a possibility.

I don't know what they use today, but the pitcher and catcher should be on the same page with every hitter. They should know how they want to pitch them. What pitch, what location, etc., even before a pitch is ever thrown. It should then be easy to come up with a set(s) of signs they can switch to when necessary. The entire holding down 1, 2, 3 fingers could mean nothing, but where he puts his glove while giving the signs could be an indicator. Or adjusting his mask could be another. There are all kinds of ways to do this.

IOW, there should be no way for opposing teams to steal signs if you do things the right way. I don't know how much this happens, and they likely aren't going to tell us either.

Or they could just use the pitch com, which eliminates sign stealing.

[Screwball]

19 minutes ago, TigerNation said:

Or they could just use the pitch com, which eliminates sign stealing.

I have been absent for quite a few years so I have no clue what pitch com is or does. I'm very old school so I am used to fingers. 🙂

For the record, I don't like the way many catchers setup today, or how they frame pitches. The game has changed so much I feel like an alien.

[TigerNation]

1 minute ago, Screwball said:

I have been absent for quite a few years so I have no clue what pitch com is or does. I'm very old school so I am used to fingers. 🙂

For the record, I don't like the way many catchers setup today, or how they frame pitches. The game has changed so much I feel like an alien.

Pitch com replaced signals, catchers no longer signal the pitch to the pitcher.

[Screwball]

1 minute ago, TigerNation said:

Pitch com replaced signals, catchers no longer signal the pitch to the pitcher.

How does it work? I honestly have no idea. I don't even know what to search for.

Speaking of that kind of stuff. I was looking at this electronic strike zone stuff and how it works. I'm sure the subject has come up here. It sounds like they are using some really trick high end cameras to establish the zone, with each hitters height pre-programmed. Is there a link/site that goes into any good detail on how the technology works?

[Biff Mayhem]

2 hours ago, oblong said:

and Joe Morgan's disputing it.  "As a second baseman, I don't like it...."

All I needed to read was Joe Morgan. He was stubborn and stupid. Great ball player though. 

[Biff Mayhem]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

How does it work? I honestly have no idea. I don't even know what to search for.

 

It’s electronic. The catcher has an electronic pad with different pitches assigned to buttons. He pushes a button and the pitcher hears the pitch in an earpiece. 

[Biff Mayhem]

https://youtube.com/shorts/O-pN7Zc-N5Q?si=WQWvNW-tDlXiPut2

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

I'm thinking part of he was trying to get into the Tiger pitchers heads. Causing a distraction and taking away their concentration.

Yup. There are no signs to steal any one describing it that way is being ignorant. At best Naylor trying to pick up  Dingler's positioning, but the catcher can easily be feinting on that and the batter knows it, so I bet most batters aren't going to treat the information as actionable anyway.  Naylor was almost certainly hoping to get in someone's head though, and if the Tiger's fell for it, that's their fault.

Not to mention that If he really was stealing anything, he certainly would have a more subtle system of tipping his hitter than waving has arms like a windmill. It was a good show and the booth fell for it.

Edited October 9 by gehringer_2

[monkeytargets39]

How hard would it actually be to hack a pitch com?  I’m not at all an IT guy, but is it something more than a Bluetooth link up?

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

How hard would it actually be to hack a pitch com?  I’m not at all an IT guy, but is it something more than a Bluetooth link up?

IDK. I wouldn't use bluetooth for something like that. Aside from the latency, with 40K phones in the stands all with their BT's on, getting anything to pair reliably could be an issue. There are other self-pairing 2.4gHz protocols that do ID based binding. As for hacking, that's a lot harder to do if you can't be there listening when the pairing takes place, so if the units come pre-paired they could be pretty secure - but I have no idea how hardened they actually are.

[Screwball]

4 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

It’s electronic. The catcher has an electronic pad with different pitches assigned to buttons. He pushes a button and the pitcher hears the pitch in an earpiece. 

 

4 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

https://youtube.com/shorts/O-pN7Zc-N5Q?si=WQWvNW-tDlXiPut2

Thank you! I had no idea this was going on. Wow! That explains a lot. So this guy (Naylor) who was suppose to be tipping off the batter, would only be able to give him a hint on location?

Not to start a brawl, but I will go on record and say I don't like it (the electronic stuff). 🙂

[Screwball]

4 hours ago, monkeytargets39 said:

How hard would it actually be to hack a pitch com?  I’m not at all an IT guy, but is it something more than a Bluetooth link up?

If I was a wheel in the Tigers organization, I would have our very own communication system so we control all aspects of it - most importantly - security. There may be rules though. Would love to know more about how it all works, as well as the strike zone stuff.

[4hzglory]

17 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 

Thank you! I had no idea this was going on. Wow! That explains a lot. So this guy (Naylor) who was suppose to be tipping off the batter, would only be able to give him a hint on location?

Not to start a brawl, but I will go on record and say I don't like it (the electronic stuff). 🙂

I do think it’s likely only location Naylor was tipping if anything at all.  
 

However, he could have potentially seen a tip, whether a grip or what Mize/Holton did on a certain pitch and was tipping that.  Again, highly unlikely, but a runner on 2nd would have a better view of a pitchers hand in his glove.

[Screwball]

6 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

I do think it’s likely only location Naylor was tipping if anything at all.  
 

However, he could have potentially seen a tip, whether a grip or what Mize/Holton did on a certain pitch and was tipping that.  Again, highly unlikely, but a runner on 2nd would have a better view of a pitchers hand in his glove.

It's all kind of crazy. In the simplest form, if you study the pitchers (and we have replay now FFS) you can find something to tip you off as a hitter. I'll die on that hill. Years ago we worked on how to NOT tip your pitches. Pitchers used larger gloves to help hide when they changed their grip. Same with the move to first and so on.

There is always something to pick up on.

Edited October 10 by Screwball

[oblong]

57 minutes ago, Screwball said:

 

Thank you! I had no idea this was going on. Wow! That explains a lot. So this guy (Naylor) who was suppose to be tipping off the batter, would only be able to give him a hint on location?

Not to start a brawl, but I will go on record and say I don't like it (the electronic stuff). 🙂

It does speed the game up because they also have the pitch clock.  But I’m on record for not liking the game sped up. I want more baseball.  Not less. Baseball is leisure and pastoral. For lazy summer nights where the sun sets at 10 pm. Now it’s a mad rush to the next thing. Hurry up. Let’s go. I leave the park in the summer before sundown.  That’s not a night out. That’s a trip to Lowe’s.  

[oblong]

5 hours ago, Biff Mayhem said:

All I needed to read was Joe Morgan. He was stubborn and stupid. Great ball player though. 

Remember in ‘06 when his eyeballs told him Zumaya’s pitch wasn’t 102?  “Maybe 100 but not 102”.