Cleanup in Aisle Lunatic (h/t romad1)

[romad1]

You would think we would hear from POTUS about this.  

[pfife]

Immigrants are fucking awesome.

[LaceyLou]

10 hours ago, romad1 said:

You would think we would hear from POTUS about this.  

We should. Absolutely.

The best part? There are people, including ones I know, who would provide a place for them to stay in a heartbeat. A little humanity and communication would go a long way.

[pfife]

Lol

 

 

[romad1]

29 minutes ago, LaceyLou said:

We should. Absolutely.

The best part? There are people, including ones I know, who would provide a place for them to stay in a heartbeat. A little humanity and communication would go a long way.

His best move may be to say that this is a very oily stunt made by small people whose hearts are as broken as their brains.   I had more thoughts on the mechanism of how the Law should go after Abbott and company but obviously, the counter-troll move is to humiliate the troll not to fight the troll. 

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, romad1 said:

His best move may be to say that this is a very oily stunt made by small people whose hearts are as broken as their brains.   I had more thoughts on the mechanism of how the Law should go after Abbott and company but obviously, the counter-troll move is to humiliate the troll not to fight the troll. 

I love the idea of their cruel hearts being broken, that they are broken as humans. That’s a good angle to impact the people in the middle, especially around Christmas.

[CMRivdogs]

Meanwhile from what I read Abbott and company still hasn't done much to address the electric grid. So while his own constituents freeze (those that can't afford Cancun), he's wasting their money on stunts.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Meanwhile from what I read Abbott and company still hasn't done much to address the electric grid. So while his own constituents freeze (those that can't afford Cancun), he's wasting their money on stunts.

You can't criticize a crippled governor. That's racist, man.

[CMRivdogs]

Too bad there's no work in Florida or Texas assembling candy boxes. My FB pages shows a great need for such people. Great pay as well

[Tigerbomb13]

Coo coo for Cocoa Puffs 

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[romad1]

Appears the White House has released a statement about the political stunt refugee drop offs at the VP mansion

[chasfh]

 

[ewsieg]

Of course this is performative politics, but 'standing outside briefly'.... that means folks responsible for moving these individuals to some housing were aware and waiting for them.   No different then when they get bussed up from the border in Texas to other cities in Texas.  Millions a year are coming in, those border towns can't handle them all.  

At some point, instead of just playing politics on both sides, it would be nice if someone actually tried to address the issue.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Of course this is performative politics, but 'standing outside briefly'.... that means folks responsible for moving these individuals to some housing were aware and waiting for them.   No different then when they get bussed up from the border in Texas to other cities in Texas.  Millions a year are coming in, those border towns can't handle them all. 

This excuse would make more sense if Abbott was working with governors of other states to safely transfer and onboard the immigrants. Instead, Abbott is planning it all in secret in an apparent effort to spring these poor people on these other states and catch them flat-footed for maximum effect. It's practically the very definition of "political stunt". So, please, let's not pretend this is diplomacy as usual here.

[ewsieg]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This excuse would make more sense if Abbott was working with governors of other states to safely transfer and onboard the immigrants. Instead, Abbott is planning it all in secret in an apparent effort to spring these poor people on these other states and catch them flat-footed for maximum effect. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/25/us/politics/migrants-kamala-harris-christmas-eve.html

Quote

Volunteers anticipated three buses with about 130 immigrants to arrive in New York on Christmas Day, but the buses were rerouted to the Washington area because of road closures and frigid conditions, said Madhvi Bahl, an organizer with the Migrant Solidarity Mutual Aid Network.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/25/greg-abbott-migrant-busing-dc-christmas-eve/

Quote

The Washington Post reported Sunday that volunteers who greeted the migrants received word that Gov. Greg Abbott had sent about 110 to 130 men, women and children on three buses that arrived at the Naval Observatory on Saturday night.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3788126-democrats-outraged-over-christmas-eve-migrant-drop-off-at-vps-house/

Quote

Three busloads of migrants arrived outside the Naval Observatory, the vice president’s official residence, on Saturday, according to ABC 7, when temperatures were in the teens. Video captured by a reporter from the outlet showed groups of migrants wrapped in blankets. One person was wearing shorts.

The Migrant Solidarity Mutual Aid Network, a local aid group, took the migrants to a church to receive assistance, according to ABC 7. The organization said Abbott was behind Saturday’s drop off, and the local outlet said the group learned about the buses a few days earlier.

Several days notice, enough to ensure the press was there to get photos as they were moved to local busses.  

 

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/25/us/politics/migrants-kamala-harris-christmas-eve.html

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/25/greg-abbott-migrant-busing-dc-christmas-eve/

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/3788126-democrats-outraged-over-christmas-eve-migrant-drop-off-at-vps-house/

Several days notice, enough to ensure the press was there to get photos as they were moved to local busses.  

 

That same TheHill article says Abbott is claiming he wasn't even involved in it. That was also implied when the article said the volunteers had "received word that Gov. Greg Abbott ...", not "received word from Gov. Greg Abbott ..."

I couldn't give less of a shit that the press knew beforehand and was there. We know, we know, the mainstream fake media blah blah blah. Believe it or not, it's not about them.

None of this helps the case you're apparently trying to make that Greg Abbott is a good guy doing everything by the book so he can do right by these poor people. He's obviously not, and no amount of gaslighting can convince reasonable people that he is.

If nothing else, this demonstrates how much too many people in this country have come to accept this kind of cruelty as a basic American value that's reflective of Christian morals. It's sick.

Merry Christmas, indeed.

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by chasfh

[ewsieg]

I'm not trying to say Abbott is a good guy and was the first to admit this was performative politics.  But the migrant issue is real.  You are choosing to pick a side and labeling him as the ultimate symbol for cruelty.  Yet El Paso can't handle the influx and Abbott has overflowed his major cities with migrants already.   El Paso couldn't house some of the migrants over this last cold spell when it went below freezing temps on the border.  But somehow it's much better for them to spend the night in 30 degree temps outside than spend a few minutes transferring a bus in 14 degree temps?  C'mon, stop feeding into the hate and start demanding some action from both sides who all share a responsibility.

[Dan Gilmore]

You’re full of shit.

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I'm not trying to say Abbott is a good guy and was the first to admit this was performative politics.  But the migrant issue is real.  You are choosing to pick a side and labeling him as the ultimate symbol for cruelty.  Yet El Paso can't handle the influx and Abbott has overflowed his major cities with migrants already.   El Paso couldn't house some of the migrants over this last cold spell when it went below freezing temps on the border.  But somehow it's much better for them to spend the night in 30 degree temps outside than spend a few minutes transferring a bus in 14 degree temps?  C'mon, stop feeding into the hate and start demanding some action from both sides who all share a responsibility.

Yeah, right, I'm the one feeding into the hate for re-grounding the discussion by highlighting the cruelty that you yourself labeled "performative". I'm the problem here. It's my fault. Yeah, sure.

Whatever, sport.

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, Dan Gilmore said:

You’re full of shit.

Great discussion.

49 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Yeah, right, I'm the one feeding into the hate for re-grounding the discussion by highlighting the cruelty that you yourself labeled "performative". I'm the problem here. It's my fault. Yeah, sure.

Whatever, sport.

We have a migration issue into this country, specifically at the southern border.  It is putting a heavy strain on those communities.  The right chants 'build the wall' which would have no impact on the migration issue itself as folks only need to touch American land to claim asylum and the wall is nearly always already inside American land.  So it's not like I'm saying the GOP has answers either.

But the asylum process is broke on the southern border, it's being incorrectly used on top of that, and we have no ability to process the influx we're seeing. Look at Ukrainian refugees, they were displaced across the country, even some to Michigan and Illinois.  Can you believe that cruelty from the Biden administration that he'd send folks already dealing with a war in their own country to states that experienced negative wind chills already this winter?  Biden's cruelty is unreal, huh?

Migrants were moving north prior, at least for Texas they feel it's more cost effective to assist in finding a destination for some and paying that cost rather than paying the cost to house them as they run out of room.  

As for the drop off at Harris' again, there was no cruelty there.  They would have had to brave those same weather conditions if they had to switch busses at a bus stop.   But yes, absolutely performative and used by each side to feed their tightly held beliefs about the other side.

I'm not saying this is the right or only solution, but maybe forcing them to claim asylum in their own country or the next closest country (common practice in every instance outside of the southern border) and complete the process before getting here would save so many from threats of that long travel, rather that be sexual assaults' (Doctors without Borders puts that at 31% of girls and 10% of boys), or even death.  But nope, when pressed on if it's an issue, go with the 'I like immigrants' response, allowing you to paint everyone that wants to focus on the issue as cruel evil tyrant and continue to believe you're righteous.  

[Dan Gilmore]

They are people. Loading them on busses and shipping them across the country is not “performative” - what a stupid way to describe it.  If it was a member of your family, I am sure you you would have very different way of describing the situation. Instead you go on about something everyone knows. Yes, there is an immigration problem. This is just cruelly manipulative. 
 

It solves nothing.

[CMRivdogs]

Texas has 2100 MEGA Churches, churches that have average attendance 2000 "worshipers" weekly. You would think these "christians" would welcome refugees on a weekend that celebrates the birth of the "Savior".

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/cgi-bin/mega/db.pl?db=default&uid=default&view_records=1&ID=*&sb=4&State=TX

I will admit there is an immigration problem but short of publicity stunts I have yet to see anything being done in the way of Republican "Leaders" working with the current administration.

 

[CMRivdogs]

From Mona Cheren

https://www.thebulwark.com/greg-abbott-scrooge/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

It isn’t that Abbott didn’t anticipate the coming weather. In a December 20 letter to President Biden, he wrote:

With cold temperatures gripping Texas, your inaction to secure the southern border is putting the lives of migrants at risk, particularly in the City of El Paso. With thousands of men, women, and children illegally crossing into Texas every day, and with the expectation that those numbers will only increase if Title 42 expulsions end, the state is overburdened as we respond to this disaster caused by you and your administration. Your policies will leave many people in the bitter, dangerous cold as a polar vortex moves into Texas.

Help us understand the reasoning here. Is the problem that Biden has caused human suffering by letting people be exposed to freezing temperatures? In that case, how is the solution to move people to another freezing jurisdiction and dump them on the sidewalk?

Yes, this country is being swamped by would-be immigrants, and a mature polity would address the problem with sensible reforms. But that’s not what the governors of Florida and Texas are demanding. They and their right-wing media claque are saying that immigrants are clamoring for admission to the United States only because President Biden has an “open borders” policy. Here’s a typical story from Fox News: “Biden’s dangerous open border policies are record-breaking in all the wrong ways. Illegal immigrants, possible terrorists and deadly drugs mark Biden’s open border policies.” GOP politicians proclaim almost daily that Biden has created an “open border.”

They repeat this mantra even though it flatly contradicts another of their favorite talking points, namely that the border patrol has experienced record numbers of encounters with would-be crossers. The CPB reports that agents had 2.2 million encounters with illegal border crossers in fiscal year 2022—a new record. (Many are repeat crossers.) If the border were truly open, the border patrol would not be apprehending anyone, right? They’d be standing aside and waving them on in.

In fact, the constant GOP refrain about the border being “open” may actually be aggravating the problem by disseminating the impression around the globe that it’s worth making the attempt to get into the United States.

Here is the complicated reality. It is not Biden’s fault that so many people want to come to the United States. There was a big jump in border encounters under the Trump administration as well (from 310,531 in fiscal year 2017 to 859,501 in fiscal year 2019—the numbers plunged temporarily during the COVID-19 pandemic). People want to come here because 1) so many nations around the globe are hellish and a number of those are within walking distance; 2) this is a place where people with a good work ethic can get ahead and enjoy the blessings of liberty; 3) our immigration laws and rules are confusing.

Those who object that immigrants are “breaking into our country” as a burglar breaks into a home are dead wrong. The vast majority of would-be entrants are not sneaking past sentries in the desert or wading through the Rio Grande (not that such acts are equivalent to burglary either). Most immigrants are attempting to come through international points of entry and ask for asylum. This is permitted under a law Congress passed in 1980, providing that people may seek asylum when they have a well-founded fear of persecution in their home country on the grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

The law was designed for people like the Uighurs in China, the Yazidis in Iraq and Syria, democrats in Cuba, the Rohingya in Myanmar, the Baha’i in Iran, and others. Among those who have benefited from asylum in the United States are Gloria Estefan, Sergey Brin, Hannah Arendt, Salvador Dalí, and Mikhail Barishnikov. The United States separately admits refugees from wars and natural disasters.

Here’s another solution to the immigration problem—welcome more legal immigrants! Opponents of immigration frequently object that policy should be aimed at what’s best for this country, not what’s in the interests of millions of unhappy people around the globe. Things are tough out there, sure, but we can’t be the dumping ground for the world’s problems!

True, but more immigration is in our national interest. Even aside from the injection of vitality that immigrants always provide, we are suffering from a serious labor shortage. Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell estimates that “The combination of a plunge in net immigration and a surge in deaths during the pandemic probably accounts for about one and a half million missing workers.” And the lack of those employees is driving up wages, which is contributing to our inflation problem. The unemployment rate stands at 3.7 percent, a 50-year low. For every job seeker, there are 1.7 job openings. The worker shortages are particularly acute in construction, farming, health care, and hospitality. The owner of a home health care company, Mariama Lowe, told the Washington Post that before the immigration restrictions and the pandemic she employed 100 nurses and personal care aides, most of them immigrants. Now, she is down to 27. She isn’t sure how long she can hold out.

We’re in a very difficult position, because there is nobody to hire anymore. Tech companies can go recruit from anywhere; they have all of these avenues available to them. But a home health agency like me? I don’t have that opportunity. I just have to go with whoever’s here and whoever’s available. And right now, it’s not a lot.

The wait for green cards, even for those who’ve been fully vetted, can be insanely long because our needlessly complicated law imposes caps by country of origin. Immigrants from India and China, for example, can wait their entire working lives.

We are starved for workers. Americans are paying more for food, housing, and other commodities and services due to the severe labor shortage. We have backlogs of already-vetted immigrants, asylum-seekers with credible claims, and refugees who would gratefully (dare I say tearfully) accept jobs and lives in this country if we could only get out of our own way.

[ewsieg]

9 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

They are people. Loading them on busses and shipping them across the country is not “performative” - what a stupid way to describe it.  If it was a member of your family, I am sure you you would have very different way of describing the situation. Instead you go on about something everyone knows. Yes, there is an immigration problem. This is just cruelly manipulative. 
 

It solves nothing.

It was performative to drop them off in front of Harris' residence.  It was a natural flow or migration to get them to another state.  Migrants have families all throughout the United States, not just the border states.  Many migrants want to get to Michigan, New York, DC, etc.  If it was a member of my family, I would have wanted them bussed to Michigan, not DC though, so you got me there.

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

From Mona Cheren

https://www.thebulwark.com/greg-abbott-scrooge/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

 

It isn’t that Abbott didn’t anticipate the coming weather. In a December 20 letter to President Biden, he wrote:

With cold temperatures gripping Texas, your inaction to secure the southern border is putting the lives of migrants at risk, particularly in the City of El Paso. With thousands of men, women, and children illegally crossing into Texas every day, and with the expectation that those numbers will only increase if Title 42 expulsions end, the state is overburdened as we respond to this disaster caused by you and your administration. Your policies will leave many people in the bitter, dangerous cold as a polar vortex moves into Texas.

Help us understand the reasoning here. Is the problem that Biden has caused human suffering by letting people be exposed to freezing temperatures? In that case, how is the solution to move people to another freezing jurisdiction and dump them on the sidewalk?

Yes, this country is being swamped by would-be immigrants, and a mature polity would address the problem with sensible reforms. But that’s not what the governors of Florida and Texas are demanding. They and their right-wing media claque are saying that immigrants are clamoring for admission to the United States only because President Biden has an “open borders” policy. Here’s a typical story from Fox News: “Biden’s dangerous open border policies are record-breaking in all the wrong ways. Illegal immigrants, possible terrorists and deadly drugs mark Biden’s open border policies.” GOP politicians proclaim almost daily that Biden has created an “open border.”

They repeat this mantra even though it flatly contradicts another of their favorite talking points, namely that the border patrol has experienced record numbers of encounters with would-be crossers. The CPB reports that agents had 2.2 million encounters with illegal border crossers in fiscal year 2022—a new record. (Many are repeat crossers.) If the border were truly open, the border patrol would not be apprehending anyone, right? They’d be standing aside and waving them on in.

In fact, the constant GOP refrain about the border being “open” may actually be aggravating the problem by disseminating the impression around the globe that it’s worth making the attempt to get into the United States.

Here is the complicated reality. It is not Biden’s fault that so many people want to come to the United States. There was a big jump in border encounters under the Trump administration as well (from 310,531 in fiscal year 2017 to 859,501 in fiscal year 2019—the numbers plunged temporarily during the COVID-19 pandemic). People want to come here because 1) so many nations around the globe are hellish and a number of those are within walking distance; 2) this is a place where people with a good work ethic can get ahead and enjoy the blessings of liberty; 3) our immigration laws and rules are confusing.

Those who object that immigrants are “breaking into our country” as a burglar breaks into a home are dead wrong. The vast majority of would-be entrants are not sneaking past sentries in the desert or wading through the Rio Grande (not that such acts are equivalent to burglary either). Most immigrants are attempting to come through international points of entry and ask for asylum. This is permitted under a law Congress passed in 1980, providing that people may seek asylum when they have a well-founded fear of persecution in their home country on the grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

The law was designed for people like the Uighurs in China, the Yazidis in Iraq and Syria, democrats in Cuba, the Rohingya in Myanmar, the Baha’i in Iran, and others. Among those who have benefited from asylum in the United States are Gloria Estefan, Sergey Brin, Hannah Arendt, Salvador Dalí, and Mikhail Barishnikov. The United States separately admits refugees from wars and natural disasters.

Here’s another solution to the immigration problem—welcome more legal immigrants! Opponents of immigration frequently object that policy should be aimed at what’s best for this country, not what’s in the interests of millions of unhappy people around the globe. Things are tough out there, sure, but we can’t be the dumping ground for the world’s problems!

True, but more immigration is in our national interest. Even aside from the injection of vitality that immigrants always provide, we are suffering from a serious labor shortage. Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell estimates that “The combination of a plunge in net immigration and a surge in deaths during the pandemic probably accounts for about one and a half million missing workers.” And the lack of those employees is driving up wages, which is contributing to our inflation problem. The unemployment rate stands at 3.7 percent, a 50-year low. For every job seeker, there are 1.7 job openings. The worker shortages are particularly acute in construction, farming, health care, and hospitality. The owner of a home health care company, Mariama Lowe, told the Washington Post that before the immigration restrictions and the pandemic she employed 100 nurses and personal care aides, most of them immigrants. Now, she is down to 27. She isn’t sure how long she can hold out.

We’re in a very difficult position, because there is nobody to hire anymore. Tech companies can go recruit from anywhere; they have all of these avenues available to them. But a home health agency like me? I don’t have that opportunity. I just have to go with whoever’s here and whoever’s available. And right now, it’s not a lot.

The wait for green cards, even for those who’ve been fully vetted, can be insanely long because our needlessly complicated law imposes caps by country of origin. Immigrants from India and China, for example, can wait their entire working lives.

We are starved for workers. Americans are paying more for food, housing, and other commodities and services due to the severe labor shortage. We have backlogs of already-vetted immigrants, asylum-seekers with credible claims, and refugees who would gratefully (dare I say tearfully) accept jobs and lives in this country if we could only get out of our own way.

I like Mona, but I sometimes I feel like her never Trump views have impacted her ability to reasonably view issues with anyone that is even suspected of supporting anything regarding Trump.  She's right to say Abbott and DeSantis (who really isn't dealing with the full impact that land border states are and should just focus on Florida) aren't offering much of a solution either.

But it's semantics to say it's not an open policy.  We know that the vast majority of these folks will claim asylum and they will eventually lose their case, but already be lost inside our nation.  Border agents don't let them walk through, correct.  But border agents do work as Uber drivers, collecting them and transporting back to a facility.  There a court date is set for them based on where they say they are heading, LA, Washington, Michigan, NY, DC, etc.  Then it's up to them to figure out a way to get there.   

And yes, we are starved for workers.  But seriously, that's an excuse?  We need more unskilled labor so big corporate American can get back to being opened 24x7 and make ridiculous profits they aren't taxed much on anyway... that's what the party of 'workers' is advocating?