2022 NCAA Football Thread

[MichiganCardinal]

43 minutes ago, buddha said:

duke, nc, and virginia are made for the big ten.  notre dame too, of course.

I think UNC and Duke are ideological fits but I’m not sure they make sense in the context of having just added USC and UCLA. If the Big Ten wants to be a coast-to-coast conference, adding North Carolina doesn’t really move that needle.

Notre Dame is different, as always.

[chasfh]

At this point they might as well blow up the whole FBS/FCS system, along with the current conferences, and start over with a tiered system, starting with a 12-team national super conference at the top—Tier 1. Michigan would be in that for next year with all the biggies.

Then they could have a Tier 2 with three 12-team conferences that are super-regional in nature. Michigan State would be in this one with teams like Penn State, Kentucky, Florida and Miami FL.

Move on down to Tier 3 with six 12-team conferences that are basically regional. Central, Eastern and Western would all be at this level lumped mostly with MAC schools (plus Indiana!).

Last would be the twelve 12-team conferences in Tier 4, the remaining schools. Think schools like Valpo, Dayton, Bowling Green, Lehigh, Ohio U, schools like that.

This would be a golden chance to finally implement a promotion/relegation system in American sports. You can't do that with pro sports because fans and owners would never stand for it, but at the college level, it would be a lot easier, and provide an incentive for bubble schools to get better.

Here's what they could do: relegate the bottom three teams from Tier 1 and promote the three champs of each of the three Tier 2 conferences. Relegate two from each Tier 2 conference and replace with the six Tier 3 champs. Relegate two more from each Tier 3 conference and replace with the 12 Tier 4 champs.

Since the conferences would each have 12 teams, it sets up a perfect scheduling situation: 12-game seasons, one with each of the other conference teams, plus a 12th game with an out-of-conference team from any level. This is how Michigan and Michigan State could still play every year. Call it Traditional Rivalry Week or something.

This system as I lay it out here would require 264 participating teams. There are currently 261 FBS and FCS teams, so, fill it out by "graduating" the top three Division II teams into the tiered system. If that were based on this year going into next, that would include Ferris State, the D2 national champs. They'd be in a conference with those Tier 4 teams I already named.

One of the good things about a system like this is that it would reduce the number of complete mismatches, since teams would be grouped together more or ls on ability level, so there should be more competitive games throughout the season at every level. At Tier I, every game would be a primo match-up for TV, nearly at the level of NFL.

And wouldn't it be cool to see which teams get promoted and relegated at the end of each season, and seeing how conferences would have to be geographically realigned for the next?

I understand there are probably dozens of barriers preventing this from happening, not the least of which are tradition and money invested in the current system, but I think something like this would be neat, and could also be practical.

[Hongbit]

 

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

 

lol oregon and washington.

[buddha]

sorry oregon and washington...

[Hongbit]

This one is even better.  Stupid Pols think they can stop this.  Only Phil Knight can stop it and he’s not.  

 

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

This one is even better.  Stupid Pols think they can stop this.  Only Phil Knight can stop it and he’s not.  

 

lol.  i wouldnt want to be the political party that kept washington and oregon out of the top tier of college football just to make wazzu and oregon state's tiny fanbases happy.

that would be HILARIOUS to see them all backpeddle in 4 years after the big ten takes stanford and cal instead.

[RedRamage]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

This would be a golden chance to finally implement a promotion/relegation system in American sports. You can't do that with pro sports because fans and owners would never stand for it, but at the college level, it would be a lot easier, and provide an incentive for bubble schools to get better.

I don't think this would be as easy as you think.  I suspect you'd get a LOT of resistance from schools like Michigan who think they are top tier school always and forever (and may not without some merit).  They would not want to be up for regulation.

There's also the question of rivalries.  I know you left one game for rivals, but if MSU, OSU... er, I mean tOSU, and UofM all end up on different tiers, then MSU would miss out on the rivalry game with UofM.

Finally there's the whole big-fish, little pond vs. little-fish, big pond issue.  I suspect that schools like Alabama or tOSU wouldn't like to have to face the top(ish) 11 schools every year.

Then the other issue is which sport(s) are you judging this by?  Or do you see a different tier set for each sport?

[Hongbit]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

At this point they might as well blow up the whole FBS/FCS system, along with the current conferences, and start over with a tiered system, starting with a 12-team national super conference at the top—Tier 1. Michigan would be in that for next year with all the biggies.

Then they could have a Tier 2 with three 12-team conferences that are super-regional in nature. Michigan State would be in this one with teams like Penn State, Kentucky, Florida and Miami FL.

Move on down to Tier 3 with six 12-team conferences that are basically regional. Central, Eastern and Western would all be at this level lumped mostly with MAC schools (plus Indiana!).

Last would be the twelve 12-team conferences in Tier 4, the remaining schools. Think schools like Valpo, Dayton, Bowling Green, Lehigh, Ohio U, schools like that.

This would be a golden chance to finally implement a promotion/relegation system in American sports. You can't do that with pro sports because fans and owners would never stand for it, but at the college level, it would be a lot easier, and provide an incentive for bubble schools to get better.

Here's what they could do: relegate the bottom three teams from Tier 1 and promote the three champs of each of the three Tier 2 conferences. Relegate two from each Tier 2 conference and replace with the six Tier 3 champs. Relegate two more from each Tier 3 conference and replace with the 12 Tier 4 champs.

Since the conferences would each have 12 teams, it sets up a perfect scheduling situation: 12-game seasons, one with each of the other conference teams, plus a 12th game with an out-of-conference team from any level. This is how Michigan and Michigan State could still play every year. Call it Traditional Rivalry Week or something.

This system as I lay it out here would require 264 participating teams. There are currently 261 FBS and FCS teams, so, fill it out by "graduating" the top three Division II teams into the tiered system. If that were based on this year going into next, that would include Ferris State, the D2 national champs. They'd be in a conference with those Tier 4 teams I already named.

One of the good things about a system like this is that it would reduce the number of complete mismatches, since teams would be grouped together more or ls on ability level, so there should be more competitive games throughout the season at every level. At Tier I, every game would be a primo match-up for TV, nearly at the level of NFL.

And wouldn't it be cool to see which teams get promoted and relegated at the end of each season, and seeing how conferences would have to be geographically realigned for the next?

I understand there are probably dozens of barriers preventing this from happening, not the least of which are tradition and money invested in the current system, but I think something like this would be neat, and could also be practical.

Fox and ESPN control everything and they have their own deals ironed out independently.   CFB really needs a commissioner that can oversee all the conferences and could then bid out the entire package to multiple networks like the NFL.  

[buddha]

there will never be promotion and relegation in american sports.  there is too much money involved.  the only reason it still exists in soccer is tradition.  that tradition doesnt exist here and there is too much money involved for the existing players to risk any devaluation of their franchises and brands.

it will never happen.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Fox and ESPN control everything and they have their own deals ironed out independently.   CFB really needs a commissioner that can oversee all the conferences and could then bid out the entire package to multiple networks like the NFL.  

TV is the CFB commissioner.

[holygoat]

A relegation system seems like it would cement schools as either haves or have-nots. How many recruits with a choice would choose to go to a relegated program?

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, RedRamage said:

I don't think this would be as easy as you think.  I suspect you'd get a LOT of resistance from schools like Michigan who think they are top tier school always and forever (and may not without some merit).  They would not want to be up for regulation.

There's also the question of rivalries.  I know you left one game for rivals, but if MSU, OSU... er, I mean tOSU, and UofM all end up on different tiers, then MSU would miss out on the rivalry game with UofM.

Finally there's the whole big-fish, little pond vs. little-fish, big pond issue.  I suspect that schools like Alabama or tOSU wouldn't like to have to face the top(ish) 11 schools every year.

Then the other issue is which sport(s) are you judging this by?  Or do you see a different tier set for each sport?

Not only did I not say this would be easy, I said in so many words that there are probably dozens of barriers preventing this from happening.

This was just a fun thing I posted because I spent a couple hours being obsessed by the idea. It sounded neat in the moment, I fleshed it out a little bit, and I posted about it.

If MSU were to get relegated to Tier 3, they would deserve not being able to play Michigan.

[chasfh]

57 minutes ago, holygoat said:

A relegation system seems like it would cement schools as either haves or have-nots. How many recruits with a choice would choose to go to a relegated program?

Not many, but then, recruits with a choice generally go to the top schools on their list anyway, so the whole thing probably wouldn’t be much different than it is now.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, buddha said:

there will never be promotion and relegation in american sports.  there is too much money involved.  the only reason it still exists in soccer is tradition.  that tradition doesnt exist here and there is too much money involved for the existing players to risk any devaluation of their franchises and brands.

it will never happen.

I agree, this is practically obvious on its face. But if it ever had a ghost of a chance of working in only one instance, I think college football could be that instance. They wanna make money, sure, but they also don’t have quite the same existential profit imperative that professional sports demand.

[casimir]

14 hours ago, buddha said:

there will never be promotion and relegation in american sports.  there is too much money involved.  the only reason it still exists in soccer is tradition.  that tradition doesnt exist here and there is too much money involved for the existing players to risk any devaluation of their franchises and brands.

it will never happen.

Promotion / relegation involving the B10 would have been fun in 2008, eh?

Its really a dumb concept to try to organize competitive balance for one season based on a prior season when there is so much player movement from team to team (graduating/transferring players in college, free agency/trades in professional).  And I would say its only a consideration on this soil because of the increasing popularity of soccer (and they do it, so its kewl), and its different than what 'Murican sports have traditionally done (its different so its kewl).

 

[CMRivdogs]

21 hours ago, buddha said:

duke, nc, and virginia are made for the big ten.  notre dame too, of course.

I'd throw VaTech into the mix as well. Very similar to MSU educationally. Like UVa borderline in sports. They're competitive, not great.

[RedRamage]

14 hours ago, chasfh said:

Not only did I not say this would be easy, I said in so many words that there are probably dozens of barriers preventing this from happening.

This was just a fun thing I posted because I spent a couple hours being obsessed by the idea. It sounded neat in the moment, I fleshed it out a little bit, and I posted about it.

If MSU were to get relegated to Tier 3, they would deserve not being able to play Michigan.

MY apologies... I guess I didn't read carefully enough.

RE: different sports... what was your thinking?  Would a University be assigned a tier on the whole or would there be a different tier setup for each sport?

[chasfh]

5 hours ago, RedRamage said:

MY apologies... I guess I didn't read carefully enough.

RE: different sports... what was your thinking?  Would a University be assigned a tier on the whole or would there be a different tier setup for each sport?

I was thinking football, specifically. One practical barrier I can think of that’s unique to basketball versus football is that there are multiple games a week, and the amount of travel needed to pull that off for a truly national premier league for college basketball would be fairly impractical.

[MichiganCardinal]

While unnamed sources are about as reliable at predicting realignment as astrologists, this matches my thinking about where the B1G may be heading.

 

[casimir]

Supposedly the B12 was chatting up the Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah today.  Perhaps even casting eyes at Oregon and Washington.

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Supposedly the B12 was chatting up the Arizonas, Colorado, and Utah today.  Perhaps even casting eyes at Oregon and Washington.

oregon and washington would be dumb to take that deal.  wait for the big ten.  or sign some easy to break agreement for when the big ten finally hears from notre dame.

[casimir]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

oregon and washington would be dumb to take that deal.  wait for the big ten.  or sign some easy to break agreement for when the big ten finally hears from notre dame.

Well, they were already rebuffed by the B10, so they may be looking for short term stability with the remaining P12/B12 while assuming they will be part of the B10 in a few chess moves.

This is all dumb on numerous levels.  I know there is the thought that this will lead to an enhanced CFB for the fans and for the elite programs, but it’ll end up being more of the latter than the former.

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

Well, they were already rebuffed by the B10, so they may be looking for short term stability with the remaining P12/B12 while assuming they will be part of the B10 in a few chess moves.

This is all dumb on numerous levels.  I know there is the thought that this will lead to an enhanced CFB for the fans and for the elite programs, but it’ll end up being more of the latter than the former.

i dont think its good or bad, its just different.

[Hongbit]

Not necessarily unexpected but this is another big miss for Harbaugh.