2024 Presidential Election thread

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

What the hell happened to us.

 

IDK how you sum it up. Maybe it's that the internet has given us all permission to be our worst selves.

[CMRivdogs]

 

Maine weighs in..

 

[oblong]

 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

 

Maine weighs in..

 

it's not going to happen but it would be very rich if the Scotus were to find itself in opposition to an actual majority of the state Supreme Courts around the nation.

[oblong]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

it's not going to happen but it would be very rich if the Scotus were to find itself in opposition to an actual majority of the state Supreme Courts around the nation.

“States can’t decide this in their own…”

”this should be left up to the states…”

 

 

[romad1]

I'm waiting for Supreme Court to rule that the 14th Amendment is not Constitutional even if it is, in the Constitution.

[smr-nj]

Goodbye, Nikki. 👋🏻

 Rot in hell.

[Tiger337]

That ends any thoughts of voting Republican in the primary.  

[chasfh]

On 12/26/2023 at 9:42 AM, ewsieg said:

… Additionally, all Alabama would need to say is they followed their own process to determine Biden violated the 14th to do the same thing.  They don't need to prove it to you or anyone else if they don't have to follow traditional due process.

This may be technically true, but such action by Alabama would have to pass muster with the Supreme Court on whatever basis they do claim, even if it’s a “secret” basis or no basis at all; and beyond that, their decision would also have to pass muster with the court of public opinion eventually, including their voters, other governments, corproations, investors, tourists, etc. That last one might strike some as who-cares-big-whoop, but if everyone up and down the line thinks of Alabama as a clown state for doing things that are so untethered from reason, then good luck being taken seriously at whatever point they’d need to. That would not matter only if they can be a self-sufficient entity that doesn’t need anyone or any other entity for anything else ever again.

[chasfh]

On 12/28/2023 at 6:24 AM, Edman85 said:

In fairness to Nikki, I grew up in the north and learned similar nuanced/overthought justifications for the Civil War. Still, yuck.

There was a good deal of that very thing on the old MTS board maybe ten or twelve years ago. That was actually the first place I’d heard real and angry pushback against the idea that the Civil War was about slavery at its core.

[chasfh]

18 hours ago, romad1 said:

 

It was curious to hear Desantis trying to flex on this.

There are ways around the anti-slavery protections of the 13th Amendment: just throw ‘em all in prison.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Edited December 29, 2023 by chasfh

[CMRivdogs]

Posting this for the graphic insert. From the Virginia fourth and seventh grade social studies book (I think both grades used the same book). I was there in 1964-65 (7th grade, one of two Yankees in the class)

 

[oblong]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

This may be technically true, but such action by Alabama would have to pass muster with the Supreme Court on whatever basis they do claim, even if it’s a “secret” basis or no basis at all; and beyond that, their decision would also have to pass muster with the court of public opinion eventually, including their voters, other governments, corproations, investors, tourists, etc. That last one might strike some as who-cares-big-whoop, but if everyone up and down the line thinks of Alabama as a clown state for doing things that are so untethered from reason, then good luck being taken seriously at whatever point they’d need to. That would not matter only if they can be a self-sufficient entity that doesn’t need anyone or any other entity for anything else ever again.

They elected Tuberville. They are 75% at that clown state. 

[Edman85]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

There was a good deal of that very thing on the old MTS board maybe ten or twelve years ago. That was actually the first place I’d heard real and angry pushback against the idea that the Civil War was about slavery at its core.

Don't get me wrong. It's about Slavery. I just had a right wing American History teacher in high school, thus I was taught the states rights line.

[ewsieg]

[gehringer_2]

The thing that is notable is that the Civil War did fundamentally change the political compact that created the US. The is nothing that happened prior to 1792 that would suggest that the Union couldn't dissolve as peaceably as it had formed. That 'decision' only came in 1861 when Lincoln and the north decided they would not tolerate an independent slave nation on the southern border. It was only that decision - to prosecute the war rather than let the South secede, that turned the US into the unitary state it is today and established the absolute primacy of the Federal government. So in a way, the Civil War was fought over state's rights, but not in the way it's framed in the South. The more accurate reading is that it was the exact intention of *north* to establish that states did not have the right to defy the federal government or leave the union. The South was fighting for Slavery, the North was fighting to establish the ultimate authority of the federal government over any state's right as the vehicle to end slavery, i.e. against State's rights.

Edited December 29, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

13 hours ago, smr-nj said:

Goodbye, Nikki. 👋🏻

 Rot in hell.

She could only pardon him from federal convictions, not state charges.

[smr-nj]

7 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

She could only pardon him from federal convictions, not state charges.

I am aware… but….While true, her answer tells me that she should not be entrusted with upholding our democracy.  
With her answer to that question -

She failed. Period.

[Tiger337]

48 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Don't get me wrong. It's about Slavery. I just had a right wing American History teacher in high school, thus I was taught the states rights line.

The first time I heard it wasn't all about slavery was from a very left wing political science professor.  I think he was just too cynical to think that anything in politics wasn't about politics.  I was taking a liberal arts elective to boost my GPA 😀, but it surprisingly turned out to be a valuable class.  The final project involved following three newspapers (one liberal, one moderate and one conservative) and comparing the way they followed the issues.  This was the first time I became aware of how newspapers covered issues completely differently. I got an A in the class despite supporting Reagan.    

[Sports_Freak]

18 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

I am aware… but….While true, her answer tells me that she should not be entrusted with upholding our democracy.  
With her answer to that question -

She failed. Period.

I agree 100%. But I can also see that it's not a good look having a former president in prison. IMO, he deserves life in a cell. I would be amazed if he doesn't flee to South America after he's convicted.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I agree 100%. But I can also see that it's not a good look having a former president in prison. IMO, he deserves life in a cell. I would be amazed if he doesn't flee to South America after he's convicted.

I think they'll just keep delaying/appealing/whatever until the election.  And the Democrats will be fine with that as long as they stay in power which is their primary goal.  That being said, I think he should have been in prison a long time ago and America should never have allowed itself to get ourselves in a position where we are debating his legitimacy.  If he were not born into wealth, he probably would have spent his life going in and out of prisons and mental institutions.   

[oblong]

Hell… if he hadn’t gotten that TV show he could have ended up in prison.  The apprentice really altered his trajectory and put him back into relevance.  If the writers hasn’t been on strike that show wouldn’t have existed. 

[chasfh]

7 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Don't get me wrong. It's about Slavery. I just had a right wing American History teacher in high school, thus I was taught the states rights line.

You were far from the only one. It wasn't even you coming to mind.

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

I agree 100%. But I can also see that it's not a good look having a former president in prison. IMO, he deserves life in a cell. I would be amazed if he doesn't flee to South America after he's convicted.

He's never going to prison, and the area of the world he would flee to would have "East" in it, not "South".

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

He's never going to prison, and the area of the world he would flee to would have "East" in it, not "South".

I was thinking more along the lines of The North Beyond the Wall.

Like...

Siberia.