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Detroit Tigers Mount Rushmore


Tenacious D
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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Feels like an appropriate place for this—Whitaker again snubbed for the HOF—didn’t even make it on the veterans ballot:

Lou Whitaker snubbed by Hall of Fame again; Detroit Tigers great left off vet ballot

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2022/11/07/tigers-lou-whitaker-snubbed-by-baseball-hall-of-fame-vet-ballot/69627773007/

That sucks hard.

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

That sucks hard.

I was just about to post this in the off season thread or one of the Whitaker threads. I just do not understand this At all. 

Mattingly and Murphy are back on the ballot, and they received LESS votes than Whitaker last time. I am pissed off.

 

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14 minutes ago, CMU97 said:

I was just about to post this in the off season thread or one of the Whitaker threads. I just do not understand this At all. 

Mattingly and Murphy are back on the ballot, and they received LESS votes than Whitaker last time. I am pissed off.

 

Not only that, they are also much less accomplished than Lou. Mattingly and Murphy don't even have any rings, so you can't make that argument about them.

McGriff would also normally fall short just on the merits of his career numbers, but I am guessing he will actually get a boost from being on the ballot with all the baggage guys there with him (Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro, Belle, Schilling). No way any of those guys are getting voted in. I do think Bonds, Clemens, and Schillingwill all make it eventually, but as of today, it's just too soon.

McGriff is going to look like a slugging saint in comparison, so I would not doubt that he would be the only one to go in, if any.

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Dale Murphy and Don Mattingly were the opposite of Whitaker.   Murphy won two MVPs and Mattingly won one MVP and finished 2nd another year.  Both had short careers.  Whitaker never came close to an MVP, but had as many good years as almost any player ever.  It's really remarkable how many good years he had without ever being great.  I saw a stat yesterday from B-Refs Stathead expert Adam Darowski showing that Whitaker finished between 3 and 7 WAR more times than any player in the history of the game, but never finished above 7.  He may have been a compiler but he was the best compiler ever!     

I think McGriff might get in, but I don't know that he deserves it.  He was in the Whitaker mold of always being good but never being great, but Whitaker was better overall.  

 

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52 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I saw a stat yesterday from B-Refs Stathead expert Adam Darowski showing that Whitaker finished between 3 and 7 WAR more times than any player in the history of the game, but never finished above 7.  He may have been a compiler but he was the best compiler ever!

So I just looked at this and realized something: Whitaker played in 19 seasons and clocked three wins or better in 15 of those seasons. Of the four he did not, one of them, 1977, was a cup of coffee season, and two others, 1994 and 1995, were—well, not just his age 37 and 38 seasons, his final two, but also truncated seasons due to the owner’s lockout. He definitely would have had more than three WAR in 1994. Nineteen-eighty was the only season he “had no excuse”. Just … dayum.

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8 minutes ago, UCFKNIGHT said:

Marty Castillo, Howard Johnson, Larry Herndon and Dwight Lowry. My all-time junkyard dog players from our beloved 1984 Tigers. Each night, during that magical season, a different hero got the job done.

If I’m picking unsung ‘84 Tigers, I’m going with Rusty Kuntz, Rupert Jones, Johnny Grubb and Doug Bair.

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Gonna take a stab here...

But I wanna do a 84Lives!!! Rushmore!!!

So... 

The way I see it... it's not an exact replica of Mount Rushmore... instead, it's a hallway...

On the left is the Old School side with largest/ greatest at the front, and going slightly smaller each carved-in-rock bust as we go towards the back. The second guy is going to be as much second due to a specific contribution to the game as his stats. For stats, I looked at OPS+ (ERA+ for pitchers), career WAR and Tigers WAR. I gave a "benefit of the doubt" credit to Hank Greenberg for losing basically 4 years to WWII (roughly 18 WAR'S worth due to, ironically, war). And I put two honorable mentions at the end of the hall for reasons I shall shortly explain.

On the right side is a mirror image (different players of course) of Modern Day Tigers Rushmore players, with two honorable mentions at the back again.

So my Tigers Mount Rushmore is in a wide canyon, with rock cliff-faces on both sides, carved with 4 Tigers Greats on each side... and souvenir stalls at the end of each side hawking honorable mentions, plastic models of Tigers Rushmore, guide books and history books and other such keepsakes.

 

Greatest Tigers player, largest bust and at the front, Old School, is Ty Cobb of course. Easy decision. 168 lifetime OPS+, 145 lifetime Tigers WAR. Behind him is Hank Greenberg, lifetime OPS+ of 159, and, again, he had a Tigers WAR of 52.8 which puts him behind multiple Tigers greats, but lost roughly 18 WAR during his prime years due to WWII. He could have been 3rd on this side of the aisle (but with a 159 OPS+ versus Gehringer's 125 OPS+...). But not only that... he was a major hero in the Jewish world. He was their Joe Louis. I am putting Greenberg here as much for his cultural impact as for his (HUGE!) lifetime OPS+, and those missed prime years... Gehringer comes in behind Greenberg with an OPS+ of 125 and a lifetime Tigers WAR of 84.8 (3rd on the Tigers all-time list). And Harry Heilmann is my 4th carving on this side of the wall with a 148 OPS+ (3rd all-time for the Tigers) and 68.1 lifetime Tigers WAR.

My honorable mentions Old School are Sam Crawford, who ended up JUST behind Heilmann with an OPS+ of 144 and a 63.7 lifetime Tigers WAR. And just to prove I am not biased against Tigers pitchers... an honorable mention to Hal Newhouser, with an ERA+ of 130 and a 58.7 lifetime Tigers WAR. 

 

Greatest Tigers player, largest bust and at the front, Modern Day Players, is Al Kaline of course. Easy decision. Mr. Tiger. 134 lifetime OPS+, 92.9 lifetime Tigers WAR (2nd all-time). Behind him is Miggy Cabrera, lifetime OPS+ of 142, and a Tigers WAR of 48.7. He has a pretty low Tigers WAR comparative to all the others, even the honorable mentions, but, like Greenberg, I am putting him second here as much for his cultural impact as for his numbers. He is the face, at least for the Tigers, of the new wave of dominant Latino players. And if he hadn't succumbed to weight/ knee/ health issues... he could have been even better. Now... I could put Tram & Whitaker ahead of him... but I'm going on the graciousness of those two pushing Cabrera in front of them. Even if, by the numbers (Tigers WAR... NOT by OPS+), those two may be ahead of him. But for graciousness. And a damn high OPS+ !!! On that same basis, Tram, as a gentleman, is going to demand that Whitaker go ahead of him. Whitaker/ Trammell: Whitaker OPS+ 117, lifetime Tigers WAR 75.1, Trammell OPS+ 110, lifetime Tigers WAR 70.7.

My honorable mentions Modern Day Players are Norm Cash, giving Cabrera a run based on the following numbers: OPS+ of 139 and a 51.7 lifetime Tigers WAR. And just to prove I am not biased against Tigers pitchers... an honorable mention to Justin Verlander, with an ERA+ of 130 and a 56.5 lifetime Tigers WAR. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 1984Echoes
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