2023 NBA Playoffs

[Hongbit]

11 hours ago, buddha said:

harden with 9 points in 41 minutes.

wait...james harden came up small in a big game?  no way!  i dont believe it.

Now 1-14.  He’s even let the ref get inside his head.  

[Deleterious]

 

[Hongbit]

13 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I would demand a trade if I was his teammate.  

Actually, I might demand they trade Embiid and Harden since they combined for 24 points today.

 

That’s a clickbait tweet.  I just heard his entire speech.  Literally right before this he says “I must be better,  I must do more, I must work harder”.  This is cut to get attention.   

[Deleterious]

It isn't clickbait.   You can't say its on me, I need to get better and then proceed to throw your teammates under the bus.  

Embiid wants the credit for standing up and taking the blame.  Then to remind you it really isn't his fault.  Like people who apologize and tell you they were wrong.  Then instantly toss in a butttttttttttttt.....and give you 17 reasons why they did what they did.  No, that negates your apology when you do that.  And when Embiid tosses his guys under the bus it negates him standing up and taking the blame.  

[Deleterious]

I am not going to look it up.  But someone said Harden did not score a single point in the 4th quarter of game 5, 6, and 7.  

That is worse than the Ben Simmons meltdown.  

[RandyMarsh]

If he just said "I must be better, we all must be better" and left it at that then there would be no issue but adding in the part about how it's supposed to be 5 on 5 but him and Harden are doing it alone completely negates everything he said before. 

[Hongbit]

39 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

It isn't clickbait.   You can't say its on me, I need to get better and then proceed to throw your teammates under the bus.  

Embiid wants the credit for standing up and taking the blame.  Then to remind you it really isn't his fault.  Like people who apologize and tell you they were wrong.  Then instantly toss in a butttttttttttttt.....and give you 17 reasons why they did what they did.  No, that negates your apology when you do that.  And when Embiid tosses his guys under the bus it negates him standing up and taking the blame.  

This exact video tweet is shown without the full context.   It absolutely comes off differently without his initial comments taking blame and ownership.   He looks like a complete self-entitled asshole who takes zero responsibility but the reality is that it didn’t happen that way.  
 

 

[Betrayer]

How many losses is that for Doc after he's been leading a series now? Pretty sure nobody has more.

Harden is the ultimate choke artist.

Embiid got the pity MVP because of voter fatigue and the media narrative that was built up over the past couple of months. Mark Jackson didn't even put Jokic on his voting ballot - of course he says it was "an oversight".

Only one team left I don't want to see win, but the Lakers will do a better job of exploiting Jokic on defense than the Suns did. Still, I'm hoping the Nuggets can pull this one out.

[buddha]

39 minutes ago, Betrayer said:

How many losses is that for Doc after he's been leading a series now? Pretty sure nobody has more.

Harden is the ultimate choke artist.

Embiid got the pity MVP because of voter fatigue and the media narrative that was built up over the past couple of months. Mark Jackson didn't even put Jokic on his voting ballot - of course he says it was "an oversight".

Only one team left I don't want to see win, but the Lakers will do a better job of exploiting Jokic on defense than the Suns did. Still, I'm hoping the Nuggets can pull this one out.

anthony davis has been healthy for almost a month now....we know that wont last.

[Deleterious]

Three of the five guys Miami closed the game with tonight were not drafted.  Strus, Martin, and Vincent all came into the league as free agents.

I assume Butler and Bam were the other two on the floor (I didn't watch).  So that would mean of the 5 guys Bam was the highest draft pick at #14.  Butler at #30 and the other three not drafted.  Crazy.  

[casimir]

5 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Three of the five guys Miami closed the game with tonight were not drafted.  Strus, Martin, and Vincent all came into the league as free agents.

I assume Butler and Bam were the other two on the floor (I didn't watch).  So that would mean of the 5 guys Bam was the highest draft pick at #14.  Butler at #30 and the other three not drafted.  Crazy.  

Just to build off of that, Miami has had 60 draft picks in its history.  The top ten picks that they've have are:

It sucks to miss out on Wembanyama.  But Miami seems to have found a way to be competitive without tanking beforehand.

[buddha]

miami is an extreme outlier.  we are not going to become miami unless pat riley decides he loves long winters and high taxes.

[RandyMarsh]

Denver's really never had any early picks outside of Mudiay who was a bust and they are successful as well, same with Milwaukee but of course they both hit on two of the best players in the league outside of the top 10 so hard to duplicate that. 

The pre blow up Utah teams are probably the best example, they never really did much in the playoffs but they were atleast successful in the regular season despite no top selections and no top tier superstars.

[buddha]

is there a podcast out there that is remotely critical of troy weaver?  every one of them talks about cade and ivey and duren and never mentions bagley or wiseman or casey or 17 wins.  its like listening to pravda broadcasts.

Edited May 18, 2023 by buddha

[RandyMarsh]

I liked how JEIII was arguing with people before the lottery that suggested that if we got Wemby we should be at the point where we're atleast competing for a play in spot and he was like "that's an unrealistic expectation given the age of the team." 

I'm sorry this next year will be the 5th under Weaver, third with Cade along with now having 5 lottery picks under him including two top tier number 1 picks(again this was with the assumptionthat they got Wemby).

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect after all that to atleast be a high 30s low 40s team, if you're not then you did something(s) wrong along the way and shouldn't get a free pass because they are young.

I mean by his standards we shouldn't be a good team until Cade's 5th year and Iveys 4th which is ridiculous imo. I know that's how it looks like it is going to turn out but the point is it shouldn't have been that way. 

I feel this coming year shouldve been the year at the very least we were a mid 40s win team but that isn't going to happen. 

[Deleterious]

An ideal rebuild has you in the playoffs before your stars are extension eligible.

The difference between regular season and the playoffs is pretty big in the NBA.  You really would like to see your guys performance in a playoff series or two before you have to start offering them max/big money contracts.  

[Hongbit]

The team has fallen to such low depths that apathy has fully set in.    I don’t think the average Detroit sports fan really cares that much anymore about the Pistons. This is a diehard town and we haven’t seen any of the constant dragging of Weaver like we saw in the past with the GM’s of the Lions, Tigers, and Wings.   This is not on Weaver and  started well before him.  Much of it falls on Gores/Tellem but this franchise is in its worst spot since the mid 70’s.   Someone mentioned earlier that if they were to somehow leave town (they won’t) that people wouldn’t really care and I am actually starting to believe it.   

[Hongbit]

2 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

The difference between regular season and the playoffs is pretty big in the NBA.  You really would like to see your guys performance in a playoff series or two before you have to start offering them max/big money contracts.  

This is spot on and starting to become so apparent.   Coaching matters so much more in the playoffs and defense does too (at least situationally).  Stas should be defined more by what they do in the playoffs.  

[Betrayer]

This is a big offseason for Weaver to prove himself. No Wemby cheat code to circumvent the process and save him. Writing on the wall seems to be that Gores is done with competing for top lottery spots. I don't think they'll go as far as sacrificing the future, but I think you'll definitely see moves designed to put a better product on the floor.

He's got a top 5 pick and some cap room to make changes.

They only won 17 games last year, but they weren't a 17 win team. Cade was out all year and they shut down multiple key players for the last 20 games of the season to tank. Even a 20% win team gets 4 of those last 20 games if they don't shut everyone down and Cade probably gives you another 3-5 over the course of the year prior to that. So, I'd estimate them as a ~24 team with this roster. They need to take an Orlando-like leap and get to around 34 wins. It won't get them the play-in, but it'll show progress. 

So, can they get about 10 wins with off-season moves and player development? That's Weaver's test.

[gehringer_2]

5 hours ago, Betrayer said:

Cade probably gives you another 3-5 over the course of the year prior to that

LOL -  I hope you are just being conservative, 'cause if your 1-1 is only worth 3-5 wins over 60 games he's a bust. He better be worth more than that healthy.

Edited May 18, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Betrayer]

29 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL -  I hope you are just being conservative, 'cause if your 1-1 is only worth 3-5 wins over 60 games he's a bust. He better be worth more than that healthy.

I was being mildly conservative, but also somewhat realistic. We're talking about a guy who would've been 21 in just his second year. How many wins did SGA give OKC in 2022 when he was 23 years old and played in about 60 games that season? They won 24 games and he averaged 24/6/4. Was he a bust?

They turned the corner in 2023 with a 24 year old SGA and a roster that makes way more sense around him. Even if Cade played, he doesn't solve the youth, defense, and roster issues from last year.

3-5 wins might be slightly conservative, but not by much. These kids need to grow up and the roster around them needs to improve before one 21 year old can make that much of an impact.

[casimir]

23 hours ago, buddha said:

miami is an extreme outlier.  we are not going to become miami unless pat riley decides he loves long winters and high taxes.

That's true, they are an outlier.  But what's wrong with wanting to be the next outlier?

[buddha]

51 minutes ago, casimir said:

That's true, they are an outlier.  But what's wrong with wanting to be the next outlier?

nothing wrong with wanting to be, but realize its most likely not going to happen.  troy and the boys havent shown much ability to develop guys like miami has.  

speaking only from an optics perspective - because that's really all we have as fans - but hiring kevin ollie just looks awful.  like a "he's one of my boys" hire because troy knows him.

if that's what happens you'll see all sorts of fawning articles from pistons media (because that's all they write), but wont troy be on the clock at that point?  need to see some big improvement next season.

 

[Hongbit]

35 minutes ago, buddha said:

nothing wrong with wanting to be, but realize its most likely not going to happen.  troy and the boys havent shown much ability to develop guys like miami has.  

speaking only from an optics perspective - because that's really all we have as fans - but hiring kevin ollie just looks awful.  like a "he's one of my boys" hire because troy knows him.

 

It too bad that Chris Quinn isn’t black. 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

nothing wrong with wanting to be, but realize its most likely not going to happen.  troy and the boys havent shown much ability to develop guys like miami has.  

speaking only from an optics perspective - because that's really all we have as fans - but hiring kevin ollie just looks awful.  like a "he's one of my boys" hire because troy knows him.

if that's what happens you'll see all sorts of fawning articles from pistons media (because that's all they write), but wont troy be on the clock at that point?  need to see some big improvement next season.

 

He absolutely should be next season, yes.  I understand he inherited a grease fire.  But he's been in charge for 3 seasons now.  This franchise needs to show improvement. 

I don't know if the playoffs are realistic.  I would expect maybe a tough beginning of the season because they're going to have a new coaching staff, and there's probably still some getting to know Cunningham with Ivey & Duren and whatever other pieces are held over.  And that doesn't incorporate any other roster changes that they'll have.  So, I'll be interested in the back 2/3 of the season.  What do they look like then?  Is there a core to build upon long term?  Are there supporting cast and role players on the roster to make a legitimate case for the playoffs in 24-25?