SCOTUS and whatnot

[pfife]

There are more case decisions to be released today.   There are still some on the docket with some real bad implications.  There's one where they're probably going to decide the EPA can't regulate the environment.... which is a clear shot at the administrative state.   

[chasfh]

They’re moving us back to an age where corporations will be trusted to do the right thing for the American people. Or more exactly, what’s good for corporations will be good for America.

[pfife]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They’re moving us back to an age where corporations will be trusted to do the right thing for the American people. Or more exactly, what’s good for corporations will be good for America.

Adam Smith's invisible hand.

We're literally banking on the part where the famous capitalist theorist had to make up an invisible hand to make his theory work.  He literally had no other way to explain what he wanted to explain.

Edited June 27, 2022 by pfife

[Motown Bombers]

Democratic voters never prioritized the Supreme Court so their elected leaders never prioritized and now we are going to face those consequences for generations. 

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

They’re moving us back to an age where corporations will be trusted to do the right thing for the American people. Or more exactly, what’s good for corporations will be good for America.

It's been that way my entire life.  It will now become more so.  As much as I distrust the administrative state, I mistrust big corporations even more.  

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It's been that way my entire life.  It will now become more so.  As much as I distrust the administrative state, I mistrust big corporations even more.  

Why do you mistrust the administrative state, necessarily?

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Why do you mistrust the administrative state, necessarily?

for me this is where the GOP completely falls off the rails on pure practical grounds. They have it exactly backward. It's  funny to me that the GOP always used to call liberals 'ivory tower' and divorced from reality, but it's the GOP thought leaders today who apparently have no experience in how the real world works. Go to work for any big industrial corporation and it won't take long to understand that both civilized society and the planet will be quite doomed if the profit motive is allowed to run free without the administrative state at least trying to stand guard. Killing the admin state is a play for pure future disaster. The role of good government has to be to do your damnedest to make it work better, not constantly try to strangle it, and the GOP had been nothing but a hindrance to those efforts for 40 years now.

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Why do you mistrust the administrative state, necessarily?

I distrust government in general because the leaders are primarily interested in staying in power.  While I think that there is corruption at the top, I think thre are many people within the administrative state who do good work and keep things somewhat honest.  Big corporations are based totally on profit making and I don't think they contain an element which is working for the good of the people. If this did exist, it would be quickly eliminated.  

Edited June 27, 2022 by Tiger337

[CMRivdogs]

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Edited June 27, 2022 by CMRivdogs

[chasfh]

10 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

The best part is that something like post-game on-field prayer is a de facto requirement, meaning as a player, even if you don't consider yourself religious or even Christian, you have to be seen putting on the act if you want to stay on Coach's good side.

So, in effect, the Court is approving mandated Christian religious expression that takes place on publicly-funded property.

[CMRivdogs]

 

[CMRivdogs]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The best part is that something like post-game on-field prayer is a de facto requirement, meaning as a player, even if you don't consider yourself religious or even Christian, you have to be seen putting on the act if you want to stay on Coach's good side.

So, in effect, the Court is approving mandated Christian religious expression that takes place on publicly-funded property.

I wonder if the "privilege" can also be applied to say Muslims, and say wiccan's?   

[chasfh]

32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I distrust government in general because the leaders are primarily interested in staying in power.  While I think that there is corruption at the top, I think thre are many people within the administrative state who do good work and keep things somewhat honest.  Big corporations are based totally on profit making and I don't think they contain an element which is working for the good of the people. If this did exist, it would be quickly eliminated.  

Looks like you're hedging on your statement about distrust of the administrative state, which is good, because I agree with this characterization right here. It was actually the administrative state that saved us from the worst intentions of the corrupt leaders at the top trying to use that very administrative state to flout the Constitution, the law, and the will of the American people. The same corrupt leaders leading a private enterprise do not have administrative levels below them exercising checks and balances to keep the company honest and accountable to anyone, let alone the American people.

So, if anything, we should trust the administrative state, or at least put our hope in it, as long as they have not been completely corrupted by corrupt leaders.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, CMRivdogs said:

I wonder if the "privilege" can also be applied to say Muslims, and say wiccan's?   

When Dearborn schools altered their practice schedule to accommodate Ramadan, there was outrage by the right. 

[CMRivdogs]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The best part is that something like post-game on-field prayer is a de facto requirement, meaning as a player, even if you don't consider yourself religious or even Christian, you have to be seen putting on the act if you want to stay on Coach's good side.

So, in effect, the Court is approving mandated Christian religious expression that takes place on publicly-funded property.

And that was the issue. It wasn't the act of praying per say, but he was pressuring others to join him in the act.

If a Muslim coach would have done something similar, what do you think would happen.

[gehringer_2]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Looks like you're hedging on your statement about distrust of the administrative state, which is good, because I agree with this characterization right here. It was actually the administrative state that saved us from the worst intentions of the corrupt leaders at the top trying to use that very administrative state to flout the Constitution, the law, and the will of the American people. The same corrupt leaders leading a private enterprise do not have administrative levels below them exercising checks and balances to keep the company honest and accountable to anyone, let alone the American people.

So, if anything, we should trust the administrative state, or at least put our hope in it, as long as they have not been completely corrupted by corrupt leaders.

Of course in the US we are assuming an administrative state which is turn held accountable to the public by the oversight of a democratically elected government. GOP is trying hard to fail on that score as well.

An administrative state unmoored from pubic oversight is just the USSR.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Of course in the US we are assuming an administrative state which is turn held accountable to the public by the oversight of a democratically elected government. GOP is trying hard to fail on that score as well.

An administrative state unmoored from pubic oversight is just the USSR.

Which is why I qualified the post.

[gehringer_2]

Just now, chasfh said:

Which is why I qualified the post.

right - I had failed to put the same qualifier in mine.

[gehringer_2]

All we can hope is that in someday, this court is looked back and laughed at. And if that's not the case it seems doubtful the US will still exist in its present form.

Edited June 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

52 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

If a Muslim coach would have done something similar, what do you think would happen.

Once upon a time, you'd expect a Justice of the Supreme Court to be bright enough to get to this obvious piece of countervailing logic. Not the case with these looneys.

Seriously, these guys have so little intellectual candle power it's just sad. This really hit home to me after Citizen'sUnited, when the conservatives made a fundamental logic error of conflating conceptual existence to actual existence that would have gotten them laughed out of any Philosophy 101 class. I've seen no signs of improvement since.

Edited June 27, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Edman85]

I'd have to look more into the case, but i do think the left tends to forget about the free exercise clause from time to time.

[Motown Bombers]

I went to Catholic school and I don't even recall praying before or after a sporting event. 

[Edman85]

I forget which podcast it was, but the coach did have an interesting backstory. Down and out, suicidal. I can see why religion would be important to him, and if he wants to pray, as long as it isn't compulsory for players to do so with him, that shouldn't be an issue.

My rural public high school had a toooooon of religious stuff throughout. I was in choir, and there were so many God songs... Granted, my home county still hasn't cracked 40% covid vaccinations last time I checked, so I digress.

[HighOPS]

I have a strongly held belief that I should be able to drink Two Hearted Ale wherever I want. Am I now able to split a quarter barrel with my students after class as long as I don't make too big a deal about it?

(Apologies for Twitter repeat for one or two of you)

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

I'd have to look more into the case, but i do think the left tends to forget about the free exercise clause from time to time.

I don't count this one as the worst they done, but a football coach at a public school is a state sponsored actor and as noted he is in a  fundamentally coercive role. Thus it is exactly 'free exercise' (or choice not to) which is being denied. Now I do have a place in my heart for any student worth his salt who tells  his coach to stuff it if he doesn't want to pray, In my ideal world every citizen should demand their rights. I also know most kids aren't cut from that cloth.

I'm actually more offended by this kind of stuff on religious grounds. It terrible Christianity. The idea of praying to defeat a sports opponent or thanking God for having done it, so trivializes God as to be blasphemous anyway. The coach's preacher should be telling him to stop. But that is just another measure of the bankruptcy of American Evangelicalism. Just play the game, you don't 'deserve' to win anymore than the other guy and you can be confident God isn't going to make sure your placekicks fly true.

Edited June 27, 2022 by gehringer_2