Toddwert Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 28 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Avila was NEVER "File & Trial"... Just sayin'... 😉 and hes man so we're are screwed til we get a female GM just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: So the Tigers are 'File and Trial'....until they are not. Very convenient for reporting. File and trial doesn't rule out long term deals, which this technically is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Huh, you mean there was, in fact, more to the story? Somewhere in there I get the impression that there that the difference wasn’t over $25K. I don’t know…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, Edman85 said: File and trial doesn't rule out long term deals, which this technically is. Well, whatever. The best we can hope for is that the bad back was holding Mize back even before the UCL flared and we see get to see something more like the guy we thought we were drafting in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAbbott Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Mize settles on what seems to be a deal that could have been made earlier. Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 13 hours ago, Edman85 said: File and trial doesn't rule out long term deals, which this technically is. Is "file and trial" even a thing? Can't they make a deal any time both teams agree? File and trial is being talked about like a legal decision in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 25 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Is "file and trial" even a thing? Can't they make a deal any time both teams agree? File and trial is being talked about like a legal decision in here. It's a philosophy teams stick to in order to squeeze players, basically. It's not legally binding, but certainly kills your leverage if you cave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 35 minutes ago, Edman85 said: It's a philosophy teams stick to in order to squeeze players, basically. It's not legally binding, but certainly kills your leverage if you cave. OK, but I think the Tigers current administration has not been around long enough to have established a pattern. Personally, I liked Dombrowski's philosophy of not once going to arbitration as a Tigers GM. I like a GM that is tough with opponents rather than his own players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 (edited) Good morning: ... days until pitchers and catchers report. (Sorry for the lag lately, I have been on vacation and out of pocket.) Edited January 20 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 14 hours ago, oblong said: Somewhere in there I get the impression that there that the difference wasn’t over $25K. I don’t know…. I don't think so either. I think they are trying to send a message to players that this is not the administration that signed you, the front office you could roll over because they hated the business end of players. The new front office is going to pay for performance, not pay players just to avoid having to negotiate and do business stuff with them. This is only what I believe. I think this front office handled this really well. Mize has already been paid $10+ million by the Tigers, been with the organization six years, and hasn't come close to fulfilling the promise of a 1/1 pick. He hasn't pitched for the team for practically all of the last two years. He's been receiving a full paycheck without doing anything to help the Tigers win games. His whole job the past two years has been rehabbing and training and getting medical attention and the Tigers have paid for all of that, too. They must have thought it took a lot of hubris for Mize to ask for a $125,000 raise on top of that. I think it does, too. He hasn't done anything for us since at least 2021. Why should he be getting a big raise, then? In the end, though, Mize will get still his 840—it'll just come in chunks of 830 this year and 10 next year, guaranteed, should the organization decline the $3.1 million option, which they probably will if Mize keeps getting hurt. But if he gets better and pitches most of the year in the rotation, he will have earned his $3.1 million next year. And if he actually kills it this year and especially next, then he will get good and paid, and then everyone will be happy. I like it. Everyone else may disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Looking forward to spring training more than usual this year. We bought tickets for three of the ST games, two games in Lakeland and one in Ft. Myers. Lots of newer faces this year should be fun to watch. It would be really nice if the injuries stay to a minimum and nothing serious through the spring. It “feels like 18 degrees here this morning. Yes, I look forward to spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't think so either. I think they are trying to send a message to players that this is not the administration that signed you, the front office you could roll over because they hated the business end of players. The new front office is going to pay for performance, not pay players just to avoid having to negotiate and do business stuff with them. This is only what I believe. I think this front office handled this really well. Mize has already been paid $10+ million by the Tigers, been with the organization six years, and hasn't come close to fulfilling the promise of a 1/1 pick. He hasn't pitched for the team for practically all of the last two years. He's been receiving a full paycheck without doing anything to help the Tigers win games. His whole job the past two years has been rehabbing and training and getting medical attention and the Tigers have paid for all of that, too. They must have thought it took a lot of hubris for Mize to ask for a $125,000 raise on top of that. I think it does, too. He hasn't done anything for us since at least 2021. Why should he be getting a big raise, then? In the end, though, Mize will get still his 840—it'll just come in chunks of 830 this year and 10 next year, guaranteed, should the organization decline the $3.1 million option, which they probably will if Mize keeps getting hurt. But if he gets better and pitches most of the year in the rotation, he will have earned his $3.1 million next year. And if he actually kills it this year and especially next, then he will get good and paid, and then everyone will be happy. I like it. Everyone else may disagree. Every case is different and I don't care at all whether Mize makes 700k or a million. I just don't know that I'd see it as a positive thing if the GM of my favorite team developed a philosophy of consistently playing hardball with his own players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 48 minutes ago, chasfh said: Good morning: ... days until pitchers and catchers report. (Sorry for the lag lately, I have been on vacation and out of pocket.) well it's good to hear you didn't spend you vacation in somebody's pants. (well, maybe that does depend......) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Every case is different and I don't care at all whether Mize makes 700k or a million. I just don't know that I'd see it as a positive thing if the GM of my favorite team developed a philosophy of consistently playing hardball with his own players. In general yes, but in our case the Tigers settled up front with 4 out of 5 guys, so I don't think that supports a conclusion they are a team consistently playing hardball. You will always have some players making unrealistic demands, I don't think any FO should feel obligated to cave to any number a player comes up just for the sake of keeping up the appearance of never going to arbitration. The other side of the coin is that building a winning team requires being at least a little hard headed with personnel decisions (as Chasfh notes) and if players know their FO can't do that, will they believe they are playing for an org than can win? Edited January 20 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 40 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don't think so either. I think they are trying to send a message to players that this is not the administration that signed you, the front office you could roll over because they hated the business end of players. The new front office is going to pay for performance, not pay players just to avoid having to negotiate and do business stuff with them. This is only what I believe. I think this front office handled this really well. Mize has already been paid $10+ million by the Tigers, been with the organization six years, and hasn't come close to fulfilling the promise of a 1/1 pick. He hasn't pitched for the team for practically all of the last two years. He's been receiving a full paycheck without doing anything to help the Tigers win games. His whole job the past two years has been rehabbing and training and getting medical attention and the Tigers have paid for all of that, too. They must have thought it took a lot of hubris for Mize to ask for a $125,000 raise on top of that. I think it does, too. He hasn't done anything for us since at least 2021. Why should he be getting a big raise, then? In the end, though, Mize will get still his 840—it'll just come in chunks of 830 this year and 10 next year, guaranteed, should the organization decline the $3.1 million option, which they probably will if Mize keeps getting hurt. But if he gets better and pitches most of the year in the rotation, he will have earned his $3.1 million next year. And if he actually kills it this year and especially next, then he will get good and paid, and then everyone will be happy. I like it. Everyone else may disagree. I think it was simply a case of not coming to terms yet before the deadline and they have to exchange figures by that deadline, so they did, while still negotiating. The negotiations could have been over the nature of the club option and the salary for 2024 already decided. There could have no animosity or hard feelings beyond simple business between player and org like every situation. Just lawyers not in any big hurry. Fans created the drama because of the arb deadline to exchange figures which in their situation was probably a moot point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) File and trial has spread significantly the last few years. It used to be only a few teams, but others have caught on. Likely just stuck an intern on to study and found it was worth it. Throw in some front office cross-pollination, and here we are. Regardless, the discourse around this whole deal has been frustrating. So many making the assumption that they were $25K apart when the deadline hit and getting their shots off without taking the step back to understand, and no authoritative media to dig around and find that Mize changed his offer to set them straight. Edited January 20 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) I don't see getting particularly hung up on the semantics. it's just a piece of jargon and its use as policy shorthand doesn't bind any FO to do anything they do or don't want to in any particular case. Edited January 20 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Every case is different and I don't care at all whether Mize makes 700k or a million. I just don't know that I'd see it as a positive thing if the GM of my favorite team developed a philosophy of consistently playing hardball with his own players. I think if Harris were truly playing hardball he would not have found a way to get Mize the 840 he asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 20 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think if Harris were truly playing hardball he would not have found a way to get Mize the 840 he asked for. He tied it to capping his salary next year, and therefore 2026 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 54 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think if Harris were truly playing hardball he would not have found a way to get Mize the 840 he asked for. I was speaking in general, pobably should have responded to Edman rather than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 hours ago, chasfh said: I don't think so either. I think they are trying to send a message to players that this is not the administration that signed you, the front office you could roll over because they hated the business end of players. The new front office is going to pay for performance, not pay players just to avoid having to negotiate and do business stuff with them. This is only what I believe. I think this front office handled this really well. Mize has already been paid $10+ million by the Tigers, been with the organization six years, and hasn't come close to fulfilling the promise of a 1/1 pick. He hasn't pitched for the team for practically all of the last two years. He's been receiving a full paycheck without doing anything to help the Tigers win games. His whole job the past two years has been rehabbing and training and getting medical attention and the Tigers have paid for all of that, too. They must have thought it took a lot of hubris for Mize to ask for a $125,000 raise on top of that. I think it does, too. He hasn't done anything for us since at least 2021. Why should he be getting a big raise, then? In the end, though, Mize will get still his 840—it'll just come in chunks of 830 this year and 10 next year, guaranteed, should the organization decline the $3.1 million option, which they probably will if Mize keeps getting hurt. But if he gets better and pitches most of the year in the rotation, he will have earned his $3.1 million next year. And if he actually kills it this year and especially next, then he will get good and paid, and then everyone will be happy. I like it. Everyone else may disagree. I could not agree with you more. Well said and thanks for saving me the time to state this poorly. 🙂 I will add that I do not have much faith in Mize fulfilling his 1/1 stature. Not even close. Not sure he is even in the top five of our current staff though that's probably harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 36 minutes ago, Edman85 said: He tied it to capping his salary next year, and therefore 2026 as well. Could you please expound on this point. I do not understand how the 3.1 million option benefits the Tigers. Is there any way Mize could make more than that in arbitration for 2026 starting at $840 million ? Can the increase be that dramatic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just now, SoCalTiger said: Could you please expound on this point. I do not understand how the 3.1 million option benefits the Tigers. Is there any way Mize could make more than that in arbitration for 2026 starting at $840 million ? Can the increase be that dramatic ? If they decline the option, he goes to arbitration. In other words, if he has a good year and would get more than 3.1 without an option, he's getting 3.1 If he pulls a Turnbull, they decline the option and go to arb to get a 1.5ish deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 3 hours ago, oblong said: I think it was simply a case of not coming to terms yet before the deadline and they have to exchange figures by that deadline, so they did, while still negotiating. The negotiations could have been over the nature of the club option and the salary for 2024 already decided. There could have no animosity or hard feelings beyond simple business between player and org like every situation. Just lawyers not in any big hurry. Fans created the drama because of the arb deadline to exchange figures which in their situation was probably a moot point. I think this is probably right. I was responding to the idea, expressed here across many pages, that the new Tiger brain trust are cheap-asses playing unnecessary hardball with players, with the implication that they might drive away players in the future because players don’t want to play for a cheap-ass hardballing front office. I don’t think that will be the case, and i believe if there’s animosity between Mize and the org, it would have probably preceded this episode anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 33 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think this is probably right. I was responding to the idea, expressed here across many pages, that the new Tiger brain trust are cheap-asses playing unnecessary hardball with players, with the implication that they might drive away players in the future because players don’t want to play for a cheap-ass hardballing front office. I don’t think that will be the case, and i believe if there’s animosity between Mize and the org, it would have probably preceded this episode anyway. ... and would NOT have resulted in a favorable team option for 2025. I'm on board with your line of thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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