NBA Info - December 2023

[Deleterious]

 

[Betrayer]

21 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Man was I wrong about Jalen Brunson.  

Me too.

19 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Saw it on TV so no link.

Woj reported that people around the Suns organization are saying KD is already frustrated with Beals injuries.  

Imagine that. If everywhere you go you smell crap, maybe check the bottom of your own shoe.

[Deleterious]

Pretty harsh about Green.

 

[buddha]

quick!  let's give up the farm for 1/3 of a season of og anunoby!  lol.

[Deleterious]

I would rather go 2-80 than have Bridges on my team.

[buddha]

i keep seeing local writers referring to the pistons as "one of the most storied franchises in the nba."

are they?  i dont think of them that way.  they've had two periods of success in 76 seasons.  that's just a normal amount of success for a franchise that's been in the league for that long.

lakers, celtics....maybe the bulls because of jordan and spurs because of lottery luck.  the warriors because of their recent run.

the pistons are also rans for a vast majority of their existence.

[buddha]

the red wings are a storied franchise.  michigan football is a storied franchise.  the tigers are a storied franchise.

the pistons?  nyah.

the lions definitely not.

unless by "storied" you just mean old.

[Motown Bombers]

If the Tigers are considered storied, so are the Pistons. Pistons have 3 championships since the Tigers last won one and only have one fewer championship overall despite the Tigers have over 50 years on them since the Pistons moved to Detroit. 

[buddha]

the tigers are storied because they've been around for a long time and have had a lot of great players.

the pistons have been around for a long time and have had how many great players?  one?  they have one iconic team: the bad boys.  the "going to work pistons" were not an iconic team, imo.

the pistons have been in the league for 76 seasons.  of the teams that have been around that long, only the kings are knicks have less division championships and playoff appearances.  only the kings and hawks have a lower winning percentage.

 

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

the pistons have been in the league for 76 seasons

And that is why the Pistons and Lions get 'storied' - because they are pre-expansion/charter members of their leagues. Maybe 'legacy' would be the more accurate word but that's the sense in which many commentators use the language.

Edited December 27, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

The Pistons owner did form the original NBA and until 1957 were not even located in Detroit. Fun fact, Fred is my wifes great uncle. They also had a Black Sox incident while they were still in Indiana.

 

In 1948, the team became the Fort Wayne Pistons and jumped to the Basketball Association of America (BAA).^[9] In 1949, Fred Zollner brokered the formation of the National Basketball Association from the BAA and the NBL at his kitchen table.^[9]

There are suggestions that Pistons players conspired with gamblers to shave points and throw various games during the 1953–54 and 1954–55 seasons. In particular, there are accusations that the team may have intentionally lost the 1955 NBA Finals to the Syracuse Nationals.^[12] In the decisive Game 7, the Pistons led 41–24 early in the second quarter before the Nationals rallied to win the game.^[13][14] The Nationals won on a free throw by George King with 12 seconds left in the game.^[13][14] The closing moments included a palming turnover by the Pistons' George Yardley with 18 seconds left, a foul by Frank Brian with 12 seconds left that enabled King's winning free throw, and a turnover by the Pistons' Andy Phillip in the final seconds which cost them a chance to attempt the game winning shot.^[13][14] In the following season, the Pistons made it back to the NBA Finals. However, they were defeated by the Philadelphia Warriors in five games.^[15]

[buddha]

33 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

And that is why the Pistons and Lions get 'storied' - because they are pre-expansion/charter members of their leagues. Maybe 'legacy' would be the more accurate word but that's the sense in which many commentators use the language.

i agree, but when they write about them, its in language that theyre "storied" because they've been so sucessful.

for example:

"Detroit has three NBA championships. Only five franchises have hoisted the Larry O’Brien trophy more. The Pistons won their three titles over three decades, starting in the late 1980s before briefly falling off and then coming back in the early 2000s to do it again. All different players from the first go-round. A whole new mantra and vibe. The true signs of a healthy organization. Do it, come back and do it again. Detroit also has five Eastern Conference titles. Only three rivals (Boston Celtics, Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat) have more."

the "titles in three decades" thing is misleading.  they won back to back in 89-90 and then were utter garbage for most of the rest of the 90s.  the pistons were a dominant team for 5 years in 80s and 5 years in the 00s.  other than that they've been mostly bad with some seasons of mediocre filtered in.

 

[Deleterious]

Outside of those two championship windows, the Pistons have been god awful for the most part.  

[buddha]

JEIII could go one step further and say they were a "storied" franchise until they were bought by Tom Gores.

but then his sources would dry up.

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i keep seeing local writers referring to the pistons as "one of the most storied franchises in the nba."

are they?  i dont think of them that way.  they've had two periods of success in 76 seasons.  that's just a normal amount of success for a franchise that's been in the league for that long.

lakers, celtics....maybe the bulls because of jordan and spurs because of lottery luck.  the warriors because of their recent run.

the pistons are also rans for a vast majority of their existence.

Yes they are. They aren't the Lakers, Celtics or Bulls but they've had extended championship runs in the modern era (1980-present), not many franchises can boast that. They were a winning team (45+ win team) from 84-92, 95-96 then 02-08 with 3 Championships and 5 Finals appearances so I'd say that they've been a top 5 NBA franchise from 1980-2010 pre-Gores. If you talk all time then maybe that's a different story but the NBA was also a lot different prior to the merger.

Edited December 27, 2023 by NYLion

[buddha]

8 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yes they are. They aren't the Lakers, Celtics or Bulls but they've had extended championship runs in the modern era (1980-present), not many franchises can boast that. They were a winning team (45+ win team) from 84-92, 95-96 then 02-08 with 3 Championships and 5 Finals appearances so I'd say that they've been a top 5 NBA franchise from 1980-2010 pre-Gores.

are they more "storied" than the houston rockets?  philadelphia 76ers?  or milwaukee bucks?

[buddha]

the pistons have been around for 76 years.  in that time they've made 42 playoffs, made it to the finals 5 times, and won 3.  with a .473 winning percentage.

the rockets have been around for 57 years, have been to the playoffs 34 times, made the finals 4   times and won 2 championships.  with a .515 winning percentage.

the sixers have been around for 75 years, made it to the finals 5 times, and won 3 championships.  with a .522 winning percentage.

the bucks have been around for 56 years, made it to the finals 3 times, and won 2 championships.  with a winning percentage of .528.

i'd say those teams are historically  just as good or better than detroit.

[Motown Bombers]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

the tigers are storied because they've been around for a long time and have had a lot of great players.

the pistons have been around for a long time and have had how many great players?  one?  they have one iconic team: the bad boys.  the "going to work pistons" were not an iconic team, imo.

the pistons have been in the league for 76 seasons.  of the teams that have been around that long, only the kings are knicks have less division championships and playoff appearances.  only the kings and hawks have a lower winning percentage.

 

I think the Going to Work Pistons are absolutely iconic. We hadn't seen a team like that before or since. A rag tag team from the island of misfit toys went and dominated the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, and Karl Malone and Gary Payton for good measure, and literally ended the Shaq and Kobe era and sent Phil Jackson into a brief retirement. They weren't just a flash in the pan as they damn near won it the next year. That team changed the league in the same way the Bad Boys did. The league didn't want to see a team held to 56 points in a playoff game so they changed the rules to eventually what we have now. People remember that team. 20 years later I see young people look back at those finals and that team. Their iconic value is in the fact they didn't have an iconic player. 

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

are they more "storied" than the houston rockets?  philadelphia 76ers?  or milwaukee bucks?

Probably not the Sixers in terms of name brand but the Rockets and Bucks certainly. Are we talking "storied" in terms of team success or in terms of great players. It's hard to compete with Alcindor, Big O and Giannis so the Bucks are more storied in that respect. I'm not even sure about the Bulls, they had the Jordan era and nothing else.

In any event, the Pistons were one of the more successful NBA franchises in the modern era before Gores took over.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by NYLion

[NYLion]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

i agree, but when they write about them, its in language that theyre "storied" because they've been so sucessful.

for example:

"Detroit has three NBA championships. Only five franchises have hoisted the Larry O’Brien trophy more. The Pistons won their three titles over three decades, starting in the late 1980s before briefly falling off and then coming back in the early 2000s to do it again. All different players from the first go-round. A whole new mantra and vibe. The true signs of a healthy organization. Do it, come back and do it again. Detroit also has five Eastern Conference titles. Only three rivals (Boston Celtics, Chicago Bulls, Miami Heat) have more."

the "titles in three decades" thing is misleading.  they won back to back in 89-90 and then were utter garbage for most of the rest of the 90s.  the pistons were a dominant team for 5 years in 80s and 5 years in the 00s.  other than that they've been mostly bad with some seasons of mediocre filtered in.

 

I think "mostly bad" is hyperbole. They had 46+ win seasons from '84-'92, had 3 down years then 46 and 54 in the Teal era then 3 down years before winning 50+ from '02-'08 so that's essentially 6-7 mediocre to bad years in a 25 year period.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, NYLion said:

I think "mostly bad" is hyperbole. They had 46+ win seasons from '84-'92, had 3 down years then 46 and 54 in the Teal era then 3 down years before winning 50+ from '02-'08 so that's essentially 6-7 mediocre to bad years in a 25 year period.

they have a below 500 winning percentage as a franchise.

i think we remember the "going to work" pistons because we are pistons fans but not many others do.  the title over the lakers is seen as a fluke before you give way to the spurs, wade and lebron.

that team is remembered nationally for the malice in the palace and little else.

they had a couple good teams in the 70s with lanier and bing, but never made the finals or even really got close.  prior to lanier they were god awful except for george yardley.  following bing they were horrific up through isiah.

they have one iconic player: isiah thomas (who is probably overrated) and one iconic team (the bad boys because they were the team that jordan had to "overcome" to be great).

we'll just agree to disagree.  but a good discussion!  🙂

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

they have one iconic player

and they had the best years of Dennis Rodman's career, which was certainly something to behold, though whether iconic is appropriate I couldn't say....

TBF - someone else besides Detroit gave the Bad Boys props as 4 players from 88-89 are in the Hall of Fame -- though Dantley was gone at mid-season.

Edited December 28, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Betrayer]

7 hours ago, buddha said:

quick!  let's give up the farm for 1/3 of a season of og anunoby!  lol.

Wait, is OG being called a "4 man"?

[buddha]

[Motown Bombers]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

What's wild is 3 of those 4 teams have played in multiple championships each in the same time period. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Motown Bombers