4/6/24 1:10PM EDT A's @ Tigers

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I think there's a possibility than what our MTS universe thinks and what the average person dialing up Bally to watch the Tigers on a nightly basis thinks are two different things.

I think that would be putting it mildly.   

[Motor City Sonics]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I think the ALL CAPS that you used got his attention.  Nice work.

Now can you do something about he offense?

Maybe come up with something less lame than the pizza spear.  I might be so embarrassing that they are avoiding scoring.   

 

I have an idea.   Mark Canha leads off (OBP guy),  Gio bats second (makes contact).      Who cares if Canha isn't fast.     Parker might need to feast on some Tony Packo's for a few weeks until he gets comfortable.   Not giving up on him, but a tweaking is needed.   

[Toddwert]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

With Monroe, I think there's a possibility than what our MTS universe thinks and what the average person dialing up Bally to watch the Tigers on a nightly basis thinks are two different things.

I can't remember when Stavenhagen wrote his piece about Monroe, but that was one takeaway from it for me

its not just MTS universe that doesnt like Monroe .. I dare say he's more disliked then Shep and he got canned

Edited April 7 by Toddwert

[gehringer_2]

Regardless, unless they promote Bobby Scales to TV work, given the PR reality, I would put the odds of a team in a majority AA city without a single AA player showing its only public facing AA presence the door, to be effectively zero.

Edited April 7 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Toddwert said:

its not just MTS universe that doesnt like Monroe .. 

I used to think that, but the reality is that they have a pretty large market that they air these games for, and that what appeals to me or you may be different than what other fans want. Or at the very least doesn't engender the same level of antipathy that he seems to here. And I'm guessing there's a little more market research prowess at Bally or with the Tigers than what we have.

If he was as big of a liability as he's made to be here, he would have been gone a while ago. But instead, as G2 has noted, his role has only grown as time has gone on. It's just really clear he's not going anywhere, whether we like it or not.

Edited April 7 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Regardless, unless they promote Bobby Scales to TV work, given the PR reality, I would put the odds of a team in a majority AA city without a single AA player showing its only public facing AA presence the door, to be effectively zero.

I mean, they brought Cam Maybin in for a slug of TV games last year. It's not they don't have other options.

Just think people are avoid the Occams Razor explanation here....

Edited April 7 by mtutiger

[Toddwert]

8 hours ago, mtutiger said:

I used to think that, but the reality is that they have a pretty large market that they air these games for, and that what appeals to me or you may be different than what other fans want. Or at the very least doesn't engender the same level of antipathy that he seems to here. And I'm guessing there's a little more market research prowess at Bally or with the Tigers than what we have.

If he was as big of a liability as he's made to be here, he would have been gone a while ago. But instead, as G2 has noted, his role has only grown as time has gone on. It's just really clear he's not going anywhere, whether we like it or not.

dont confuse dont care whose doing the game with like the guy.... other fan bases love thier Color guy... Steve Stone, Jerry remy, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling.  At the most people tolerate Monroe

then there is this https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/2023-mlb-local-broadcaster-rankings.html

Edited April 7 by Toddwert

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Toddwert said:

dont confuse dont care whose doing the game with like the guy.... other fan bases love thier Color guy... Steve Stone, Jerry remy, Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling.  At the most people tolerate Monroe

Ultimately, it comes down to who signs Monroe's checks and to their level of toleration.

https://theathletic.com/3353514/2022/06/08/tigers-craig-monroe-radio-tv?source=user-shared-article

Based on this article by Stavenhagen, and the included praise from Dan Dickerson (about as good an avatar on the company line as you will find, especially in regards to the broadcasts), and his increased role since the above article was written, their views go clearly go beyond tolerating 

1 hour ago, Toddwert said:

then there is this https://awfulannouncing.com/mlb/2023-mlb-local-broadcaster-rankings.html

I'll await the next review that takes into account the new announcing crew... 

Edited April 7 by mtutiger

[Toddwert]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Ultimately, it comes down to who signs Monroe's checks and to their level of toleration.

https://theathletic.com/3353514/2022/06/08/tigers-craig-monroe-radio-tv?source=user-shared-article

Based on this article by Stavenhagen, and the included praise from Dan Dickerson (about as good an avatar on the company line as you will find, especially in regards to the broadcasts), and his increased role since the above article was written, their views go clearly go beyond tolerating 

I'll await the next review that takes into account the new announcing crew... 

and people who signed his checks only let him do it part time.... that speaks volumes to me

Edited April 7 by Toddwert

[chasfh]

33 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Ultimately, it comes down to who signs Monroe's checks and to their level of toleration.

https://theathletic.com/3353514/2022/06/08/tigers-craig-monroe-radio-tv?source=user-shared-article

Based on this article by Stavenhagen, and the included praise from Dan Dickerson (about as good an avatar on the company line as you will find, especially in regards to the broadcasts), and his increased role since the above article was written, their views go clearly go beyond tolerating 

I'll await the next review that takes into account the new announcing crew... 

I don’t know, a two-year-old article written by a beat guy who needs access to the team for his job doesn’t exactly strike me as gold standard stuff, particularly since the article was written during the Al Avila regime.

Like Toddwert, I have seen a lot of the same criticisms of Monroe in other forums that I have seen here, and overwhelmingly, people dislike him by something like 9-to-1. I find it hard to believe that despite the overwhelming negativity we see of his performance, that this regime, the Scott Harris regime, is thinking, Craig Monroe is great, he’s the best, couldn’t improve on him if we tried. Speaking only for myself and no one else, that doesn’t pass my personal smell test.

On the other hand, what you are basically saying is totally true: no one inside the Tigers organization has told either me or you that Craig Monroe is terrible; no beat writers are writing articles saying he’s terrible; and colleagues like Dan Dickerson and Jason Benetti are not being quoted in interviews saying he’s terrible. There’s no way to know, proof positive, whether they think he’s terrible, and there is in fact written evidence that at least Dickerson is quoted saying glowing things about him as recently as two years ago. All the documented evidence available to us points to Craig Monroe being entrenched with the Tigers indefinitely, and the only evidence we have to the contrary is that practically everyone we know personally who watches Tiger broadcasts hates it when he’s on the broadcast, and beyond that, us just extending our palms toward him and saying, aw, come on, just listen to him!

I think the one thing we can all be fairly certain of is that, barring surprise developments, Craig Monroe will survive at least this entire season in the Tigers broadcast booths.

[mtutiger]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t know, a two-year-old article written by a beat guy who needs access to the team for his job doesn’t exactly strike me as gold standard stuff, particularly since the article was written during the Al Avila regime.

There's a similar conversation being had in regards to Ty Madden over in the Tiger Cubs thread, the gist being that teams tell you what they think of players by what their actions indicate.

And this year (yes, due to Benetti's work schedule), between TV and radio, there isn't a member of the Tiger broadcast crew that isn't named Dan Dickerson that will see more work than Craig Monroe. His job title is literally Lead Analyst for crying out loud, a title that was hung on him after publication of that Stavenhagen piece lol

I don't need anyone to come right out and say it, but I need more than literally nothing to work off of before adjusting my priors here.

Edited April 7 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

There's a similar conversation being had in regards to Ty Madden over in the Tiger Cubs thread, the gist being that teams tell you what they think of players by what their actions indicate.

Along these lines too, if there was a time to let go of Craig, the Matt Shepard dismissal would have been it.... it would have been very easy to justify it as a "booth shakeup" or something like that.

Bally/Tigers did not do that.... they actually retained him and (iirc) he'll actually be involved in more games in 2024 than 2023.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Along these lines too, if there was a time to let go of Craig, the Matt Shepard dismissal would have been it.... it would have been very easy to justify it as a "booth shakeup" or something like that.

Bally/Tigers did not do that.... they actually retained him and (iirc) he'll actually be involved in more games in 2024 than 2023.

Not necessarily. At the risk of avoiding putting too fine a point on it, Craig Monroe is a black analyst in a black majority city in which the political costs of firing him would presumably be starker than that of firing white Matt Shepherd.

I also don't think the calculus for how an organization handles a player, whose performance metrics are available for all to see, is by necessity the same as how they handle off-field personnel, whose performance metrics are available only internally and are shielded from us.

And to your point, the internal performance metrics they view may be nothing like the actual performance we so obviously see and judge out here. You can't deny that the clear majority of us believe Craig Monroe sucks as an analyst, and we are almost all very savvy baseball fans, so we know something about things. But internally, he might be hitting and exceeding all benchmarks.

[Hongbit]

I don’t think Craig Monroe is very good but he’s not as awful as people are making him out to be.  He’s a little below average and not the worst color guy ever.  

If we want a pile on,  I’m really not liking Bobby Scales on the radio.   It shouldn’t be hard to sit next to the master and let Dan do his thing but I’m not digging him.  

[chasfh]

I like Bobby Scales because I think he adds to the broadcast with his commentary. But to your point, maybe my baseline for him is different than it might normally be.

[1776]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

If we want a pile on,  I’m really not liking Bobby Scales on the radio.   It shouldn’t be hard to sit next to the master and let Dan do his thing but I’m not digging him.  

Monroe is worse, but I’m not a Bobby Scales fan either. Honestly, I’d be fine without a color guy in light of the current situation.

[Toddwert]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

There's a similar conversation being had in regards to Ty Madden over in the Tiger Cubs thread, the gist being that teams tell you what they think of players by what their actions indicate.

And this year (yes, due to Benetti's work schedule), between TV and radio, there isn't a member of the Tiger broadcast crew that isn't named Dan Dickerson that will see more work than Craig Monroe. His job title is literally Lead Analyst for crying out loud, a title that was hung on him after publication of that Stavenhagen piece lol

I don't need anyone to come right out and say it, but I need more than literally nothing to work off of before adjusting my priors here.

yeah they show it by not giving him the full time gig.... I think they'd love Gibby to be able to the gig full time but he cant for obivous reasons... Monroe gets a majority of the games because hes available and willing to do it

[mtutiger]

6 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

yeah they show it by not giving him the full time gig.... 

The Tigers are not the only team in baseball whose lead analyst doesn't do all 162 games 

[mtutiger]

51 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I don’t think Craig Monroe is very good but he’s not as awful as people are making him out to be.  He’s a little below average and not the worst color guy ever.  

If we want a pile on,  I’m really not liking Bobby Scales on the radio.   It shouldn’t be hard to sit next to the master and let Dan do his thing but I’m not digging him.  

I'm fine with Bobby Scales, but I can see where you are coming from... I think his specialty is the analytical side of the game, but I think he struggles to put it in context for the casual listener.