5/14/24 6:40PM Marlins @ Tigers

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Toddwert said:

we all now he sucks but the trump card is always going to be how much they owe him

did you see the attendance? Pathetic. There is money to be made by facing up to sunk costs and putting a better product on the field.

[Toddwert]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

did you see the attendance? Pathetic. There is money to be made by facing up to sunk costs and putting a better product on the field.

I agree but im not the one writing the check .... 90 million dollars is a lot to just eat

[Dtrain72]

17 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

And Kreidler doesn't have much more offense. No, Harris was saddled with Javys contract when he got here. And we don't know the details of whether he wanted to cut him in the off-season. Maybe Chris didn't want to eat his contract. Maybe he just couldn't swing a deal for a replacement. We just...don't know.

Good points, but if hypothetically Harris wanted to cut Harvy, but Chris said no, then I'd have tons more respect for Harris if he woulda said "whelp, you clearly didnt hire me to actually build your baseball, you just want an ass kisser, soooo I'm out!"...we'll never know I guess, but that juat brings me back to my conclusion that either Harris wanted to keep Harvy, or he's just Chris I's yes man 🤷‍♂️

[Dtrain72]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

did you see the attendance? Pathetic. There is money to be made by facing up to sunk costs and putting a better product on the field.

Bingo ^^^

Build a winner, and they will come.  Keep trotting Harvy out there, and become the egg man with egg on ya face.

[gkelly]

Back to the no-hit offense.

Edited May 15 by gkelly

[gkelly]

4 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

Is the 6:40 PM start a nod to parents with children inducing them to go to games on school nights in the hopes of generating a love of baseball with the next generation? Now that games aren’t routinely 3 1/2 to 4 hours long, part of that resistance to bringing a child to a game has been circumvented. Maybe it has something to do with making the most of daylight?

Baseball has done a horrible job of trying to gain younger children to be fans.  I grew up in the 90s and played ball in high school but I had zero desire to watch MLB.  It probably had a lot to do with Mike Ilitch trotting out the worst team in the league for 15 straight years.  The last few years feel like the beginning of Mike Ilitch's reign as the owner (15 years of a garbage product) and it's going to end up having the same effect on the younger audience.  

[gehringer_2]

25 minutes ago, gkelly said:

Baseball has done a horrible job of trying to gain younger children to be fans.  I grew up in the 90s and played ball in high school but I had zero desire to watch MLB.  It probably had a lot to do with Mike Ilitch trotting out the worst team in the league for 15 straight years.  The last few years feel like the beginning of Mike Ilitch's reign as the owner (15 years of a garbage product) and it's going to end up having the same effect on the younger audience.  

there are a lot things killing baseball for youth but the biggest is just that they don't play it, and that I think, is due largely to factors way beyond anyone in the sports control - namely low suburban housing density and small families. You need a bunch of kids closely matched in age to have any chance at a sand lot baseball culture - and it just doesn't exist in many places in the US today. I grew up in a city with lots of 4 kids to a household houses on 1/8 acre lots. We could raise 15 to 20 kids across only a couple of grades to play ball everyday after school. We had 4 diamonds at our Jr high, and 3 more within 1/2 mile of there. There were all full most days. Then we all grew up and played intramural and city league softball. That's where MLBs current fanbase came from. And I doubt that is ever coming back. So all they are left with is trying to make the game more of a spectacle (ie. the HR), to make it entertaining for people who don't have the experience based vicarious identification to what is happening on the field. But it will be a different kind of fan with a different kind of relation to what they are watching.

Edited May 15 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are a lot things killing baseball for youth but the biggest is just that they don't play it, and that I think, is due largely to factors way beyond anyone in the sports control - namely low suburban housing density and small families. You need a bunch of kids closely matched in age to have any chance at a sand lot baseball culture - and it just doesn't exist in many places in the US today. I grew up in a city with lots of 4 kids to a household houses on 1/8 acre lots. We could raise 15 to 20 kids across only a couple of grades to play ball everyday after school. We had 4 diamonds at our Jr high, and 3 more within 1/2 mile of there. There were all full most days. Then we all grew up and played intramural and city league softball. That's where MLBs current fanbase came from. And I doubt that is ever coming back. So all they are left with is trying to make the game more of a spectacle (ie. the HR), to make it entertaining for people who don't have the experience based vicarious identification to what is happening on the field. But it will be a different kind of fan with a different kind of relation to what they are watching.

the thing i like about you is that you have an opinion on everything!  lol.  🙂

[Sports_Freak]

Wow;

 

[Sports_Freak]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

there are a lot things killing baseball for youth but the biggest is just that they don't play it, and that I think, is due largely to factors way beyond anyone in the sports control - namely low suburban housing density and small families. You need a bunch of kids closely matched in age to have any chance at a sand lot baseball culture - and it just doesn't exist in many places in the US today. I grew up in a city with lots of 4 kids to a household houses on 1/8 acre lots. We could raise 15 to 20 kids across only a couple of grades to play ball everyday after school. We had 4 diamonds at our Jr high, and 3 more within 1/2 mile of there. There were all full most days. Then we all grew up and played intramural and city league softball. That's where MLBs current fanbase came from. And I doubt that is ever coming back. So all they are left with is trying to make the game more of a spectacle (ie. the HR), to make it entertaining for people who don't have the experience based vicarious identification to what is happening on the field. But it will be a different kind of fan with a different kind of relation to what they are watching.

This is good. Yes, we could easily get two games going of kids our age group. Many times, we would sit and watch the big kids before they finished and we got the good field. Even as 10 to 12 year olds, there was still groups of 16 to 18 year olds playing. And with their generations having less children, there just doesn't seem to be as many kids who play baseball. I mean, kids can't even ride a bike without a helmet and kneepads. You think mommy is gonna let little Timmy get beaned by a 40 MPH pitch? Yeah, I don't think so. I'm such a boomer...

[oblong]

21 of 42 games this year were one run. 

[gehringer_2]

38 minutes ago, buddha said:

the thing i like about you is that you have an opinion on everything!  lol.  🙂

what else is a message board for than to swap opinions/speculation? 🤷‍♂️

I do think about baseball more than any other sport though because to me the way baseball has changed and evolved is such a marker for how the larger society has changed. I think it is - at least was, more significant than other sports in that regard because it was so much a part of the culture. Some played football, some basketball, a few hockey, but up to and including the boomers everyone played baseball (and/or their girlfriends came and watched). So it was more a common point of shared experience than almost anything else. But that pretty much ended with the boomers and maybe a few Gen Xers, since we were the last cohort to grow up in that sand-lot youth culture that had existed for maybe 80 yrs prior. Everything changes, that's given, but as it happens to things you are so close to it is hard to look away.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Dtrain72 said:

Bingo ^^^

Build a winner, and they will come.  Keep trotting Harvy out there, and become the egg man with egg on ya face.

Who do you suggest the Tigers replace Javy with? Harris may have wanted to but wasn't given the money to get a better replacement? He should quit? The Tigers have more problems than just a light hitting shortstop.

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Who do you suggest the Tigers replace Javy with? Harris may have wanted to but wasn't given the money to get a better replacement? He should quit? The Tigers have more problems than just a light hitting shortstop.

pick a triple a shortstop out of a hat and he'll be better than baez.

[Tenacious D]

I don’t think you can cut bait with Javy, unless you’re OK with Navigato coming up to play SS every day. He’s not blocking anyone healthy at this point.  

If you can just ignore how much he’s making, he provides good D.  A completely overpriced Mario Mendoza.  His contract is a sunk cost, so we just have to accept that until we find a suitable replacement.  Hoping Harris will be active at the deadline and move a starting pitcher for a legit AAA shortstop who is major league ready.  

[buddha]

49 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

what else is a message board for than to swap opinions/speculation? 🤷‍♂️

I do think about baseball more than any other sport though because to me the way baseball has changed and evolved is such a marker for how the larger society has changed. I think it is - at least was, more significant than other sports in that regard because it was so much a part of the culture. Some played football, some basketball, a few hockey, but up to and including the boomers everyone played baseball (and/or their girlfriends came and watched). So it was more a common point of shared experience than almost anything else. But that pretty much ended with the boomers and maybe a few Gen Xers, since we were the last cohort to grow up in that sand-lot youth culture that had existed for maybe 80 yrs prior. Everything changes, that's given, but as it happens to things you are so close to it is hard to look away.

baseball was the only major nationwide game in town for a very long time.  when other leagues started to get as much attention people started paying attention and turning their interest to other sports.

baseball will always have outside in the summertime, and for that people will always watch it.  since americans dont have kids anymore, we can import our players like we import everything else.

[Tiger337]

Young fans don't like baseball because it's boring compared to sports like basketball and football.  There is no way to make it as exciting as other sports without ****ing it up so much the fans they already have won't like it anymore.  I think this is why they have always tried appeal to older fans by stressing history and tradition.  You can't please everyone.  

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

pick a triple a shortstop out of a hat and he'll be better than baez.

Offensively maybe.  Defense would be more difficult.  The end result is there are probably available shortstops better than Baez, but probably not so much better that the Tigers would be tempted to eat his contract.  

[Tigermojo]

Baez is the absolute worst hitter in baseball. Correct me if I'm wrong but his 21 wRC+ is 21% worse than the next guy at 42 wRC+. Baez is 79% worse than the average MLB players this year. That is horrendous.

I'm guessing he would have to be one of the greatest shortstops defensively of all time to make up for his offense. I'm just guessing. I haven't done the research. What would be the point? The guy is a waste of 40 man roster space.

The Tigers should release him so he can sign with the Savannah Bananas.

Edited May 15 by Tigermojo

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Young fans don't like baseball because it's boring compared to sports like basketball and football.  There is no way to make it as exciting as other sports without ****ing it up so much the fans they already have won't like it anymore.  I think this is why they have always tried appeal to older fans by stressing history and tradition.  You can't please everyone.  

right - as a spectator sport it has never provided the drama or football or the speed of hockey and that's why to me it comes down to the experience. I enjoy basketball as a spectator sport though I never played it at all.  I have a hard time imagining I would ever watch a baseball game if I hadn't played at it so much. The appeal (to me) is watching a SS snare a liner and knowing exactly what that felt like, or knowing the  unique feeling when you have hit the ball dead on. I can't bring that level of 'intimacy' to watching any other sport - so the bar for those sports to be interesting to me as a spectator is higher, and they provide that in a way that baseball really didn't have to for it's 1st 100 years or so. Or maybe another analogy would be that I think musicians themselves are the core group of jazz fans - because they are better able to experience what an improv player is doing at more levels, while the rest of us can only hear it.

Edited May 15 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

right - as a spectator sport it has never provided the drama or football or the speed of hockey and that's why to me it comes down to the experience. I enjoy basketball as a spectator sport though I never played it at all.  I have a hard time imagining I would ever watch a baseball game if I hadn't played at it so much. The appeal (to me) is watching a SS snare a liner and knowing exactly what that felt like, or knowing the  unique feeling when you have hit the ball dead on. I can't bring that level of 'intimacy' to watching any other sport - so the bar for those sports to be interesting to me as a spectator is higher, and they provide that in a way that baseball really didn't have to for it's 1st 100 years or so. Or maybe another analogy would be that I think musicians themselves are the core group of jazz fans - because they are better able to experience what an improv player is doing at more levels, while the rest of us can only hear it.

I played baseball, but my love for baseball started before I really played it much.  I was mostly a box score and radio fan as a kid, so it was the numbers that drew me to the game.  Other games have a lot of numbers now too, but I don't how many fans get into basketball/hockey because they love the stats.  Probably not as many as baseball, at least not initially.  

[casimir]

8 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Wow;

 

Maybe the problem is Olson and not the offense?

[RandyMarsh]

I believe the game with 4 runs all 4 came in the 10th inning so if he hadnt of given up 0 runs that would've been another game with zero support.

[gkelly]

My experience was there were about 5 of us who would play baseball.  We had weird rules to compensate for the small number of players.  I lived on a lake so that was right field and if you hit the ball there you were out.  On the left field side was the house so that was an out too.  We used a tennis ball because we didn't want to smash the house with a baseball; the house was mainly brick so we couldn't really do much damage.  You had to learn to hit the ball up the middle because of the lay of the land.  We had a pitcher, 2 outfielders and 2 hitters.  To make things more interesting the hitters had to alternate which side of the plate they hit from.  Left one time, right the next, so we were all switch hitters.  My cousin and I both ended up playing in college.  I played one year and left the team and he played 4.  But of course, you get jobs, married, kids and you only have so much time and the Tigers were really the worst team in the league when I was in high school in the early and mid 90s.  They were terrible when I was in college and awful when after I graduated.  When you only have so much free time, you have to pick what you want to do.  Follow a pathetic team that was probably going to lose around 100 games a year or do something (anything else) with your time?  It was an easy decision.  I played catch with my son and we hit some growing up, but he never got into baseball and that didn't bother me one bit.  

[1776]

11 hours ago, kdog said:

"Bad results, good process."

Code for:

Don’t expect to see any changes.