2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

And yet in all three cases, the player Harris did pick up is doing better to varying degrees than the player the article complained about his not getting instead. Plus, we ended up keeping our top prospects in the process, which we would not have had we traded for any of these three guys, let alone all of them. Sounds to me like Harris is winning.

So, what is it you want here? Do you want Harris to pick up the best players in trade, guys who best fit our system, who will help us win games? Or do you want Harris to get his name in lights and win baseball news cycles by picking up the biggest and brightest names of the moment? You can answer "both" if you like, and that's a fair thing to want, although if you were to, I will pre-reply to you here that I myself care only about the first thing.

I want players who will help us win now, this season. I don't care about a 5th catcher prospect deep in our system, who may never make MLB. And looking at stats of players traded after 2 weeks or so? Maybe that's a small sample size? Stat guys love small sample size....lol

[CMU97]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Ed Romero played one year for the Tigers.  

I know it's just a fun list, but I think some of thosre guys might have been better fielders than their metrics suggested.  There were a lot of utility players on the list and I have always suspected the metrics don't work well for them because they had small sample sizes at every position, so your combining a bunch of unstable numbers together.  For example, I remember Flynn and Romero were regarded as good and versatile fielders, but who knows? 

I can confirm that Tom Veryzer did indeed suck though.  

I do remember Meyer's neck roll.  

I think it is hard to say someone that played 12 years of Major League Baseball sucked. Did he have a very light bat? yes. An OPS of .577 says his bat did indeed suck. But, he was not payed to hit. He was paid to catch the ball. Come off the bench late in the game as a defensive replacement. Give a day off to the regular infielder. Utility guys in the 70's and 80's were used very differently than in today's game. Back then you had 9 or 10, maybe sometimes 11 pitchers on your staff. You could afford to carry an extra infielder and outfielder and sometimes a 3rd catcher. So if you had a good glove, and hit above the mendoza line (Veryzer was a career .241 hitter), you could stay on a MLB roster. And to do so for 12 years is really good. 

[chasfh]

5 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I agree, I wouldn't want him trading away our top prospects. They're the future of this franchise. That tells a story about what will happen when Riley or Carp get expensive. However, there were several players available who ended up getting traded for non-top prospects. So that really tells fans that maybe trades aren't a strength of Scott Harris?

Maybe those other teams held firm on certain non-starter prospects from the Tigers before caving on their asks in the waning minutes of the deadline period. I'm not inclined to look up individual trades, I'm just saying that's pretty likely.

I'm happy with how Harris did at the deadline.

[Motor City Sonics]

5 hours ago, Klondike said:

Tommy Veryzer is the only middle infielder with a potbelly

not the only kind of pot with Tommy V.    Sadly, he hit the bottle hard too. 

[Sports_Freak]

35 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

How's Helsey doing with the Mets? I haven't checked.

Again, it doesn't matter. It's way too small of a sample for any players recently traded. Look at career stats, Paddock has over a 4.50 ERA in 111 games. He is what he will be, he's been in the league since 2019. Decent depth but not somebody i would want starting a playoff game. But some people will settle for mediocre.

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

I want players who will help us win now, this season. I don't care about a 5th catcher prospect deep in our system, who may never make MLB. And looking at stats of players traded after 2 weeks or so? Maybe that's a small sample size? Stat guys love small sample size....lol

I honestly have no idea what you're on about with the 5th catcher prospect thing, but the three players in the example you provided are helping us win now, this season, more than the three guys Harris did not pick up would have with their subsequent performances for their new teams.

[chasfh]

Just now, Sports_Freak said:

Again, it doesn't matter. It's way too small of a sample for any players recently traded. Look at career stats, Paddock has over a 4.50 ERA in 111 games. He is what he will be, he's been in the league since 2019. Decent depth but not somebody i would want starting a playoff game. But some people will settle for mediocre.

The remainder of the season after the deadline date is, practically by definition, a small sample size.

[Sports_Freak]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Maybe those other teams held firm on certain non-starter prospects from the Tigers before caving on their asks in the waning minutes of the deadline period. I'm not inclined to look up individual trades, I'm just saying that's pretty likely.

I'm happy with how Harris did at the deadline.

Having a strong minor league system isnt just to feed the major league team with talent, it's also good to use those players to acquire players to help the major league team. Trading away all the prospects isnt a long term road to success. But hanging onto every single prospect because they may be able to help someday also isnt a good use of minor league talent. Losing stinks, I think we all agree on that. So having players in the minor leagues who may or may not help us in 3 or 4 years seems like wasting the talent we have this year. Once Skubal leaves, we'll wish Harris would have made moves to win this season. 

[Sports_Freak]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The remainder of the season after the deadline date is, practically by definition, a small sample size.

So look at bigger sample sizes of players we got against players that were acquired by other teams. Paddack, for example, isnt going to suddenly be a pitcher with a 3.00 ERA. Career 4.52 ERA is just about what he'll give you. Toss a good game followed by 2 horrible games. Just a 5th starter, at best. 

[CaliforniaDreaming]

I don't get all of the angst about Harris' deadline moves. He did EXACTLY what has has said all along he was going to do. Since he arrived he has broadcast that his goal is to build a team that is successful long-term through draft and development and that he would not trade that long-term goal away for short-term success. His moves at the deadline were exactly what we should expect. If we had any other expectations then either we have not been listening over the past three years or we were being delusional.

And, since Harris (et all) has our team in first place, I'm inclined to trust him and enjoy the ride. Watching winning baseball and the praying we win the crap-shoot called the playoffs is a pretty good life.

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, CMU97 said:

I think it is hard to say someone that played 12 years of Major League Baseball sucked. Did he have a very light bat? yes. An OPS of .577 says his bat did indeed suck. But, he was not payed to hit. He was paid to catch the ball. Come off the bench late in the game as a defensive replacement. Give a day off to the regular infielder. Utility guys in the 70's and 80's were used very differently than in today's game. Back then you had 9 or 10, maybe sometimes 11 pitchers on your staff. You could afford to carry an extra infielder and outfielder and sometimes a 3rd catcher. So if you had a good glove, and hit above the mendoza line (Veryzer was a career .241 hitter), you could stay on a MLB roster. And to do so for 12 years is really good. 

It was mostly just a flip remark about Veryzer.  Anyone that can play that long must have had some value.  Just being able to play a passable shortstop had some value back then. However, I don't remember him having an especially good glove for a shortstop and what stats are available don't support him being a good shortstop.  My impression of him was that he had potential which he never lived up to, possibly because he didn't stay in shape.  I remember him once being referred to in a Boston paper as "six pack Veryzer" which suggested he might have had another problem.       

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

It was mostly just a flip remark about Veryzer.  Anyone that can play that long must have had some value.  Just being able to play a passable shortstop had some value back then. However, I don't remember him having an especially good glove for a shortstop and what stats are available don't support him being a good shortstop.  My impression of him was that he had potential which he never lived up to, possibly because he didn't stay in shape.  I remember him once being referred to in a Boston paper as "six pack Veryzer" which suggested he might have had another problem.       

RE: Veryzer's shape:

Found a story written about Veryzer after he had been traded to Cleveland. Apparently he had put on weight in Det on the theory he'd could hit more HRs. He said in the story that he reported at 195 lb in 1976 and the Tigers didn't like it. He said he lost the weight but got traded anyway, but subsequently was playing at 165 for Cleveland. I don't remember him as anything but ordinary in the field. The knock was he was supposed to be able to hit - as he hit pretty well in the minors - 843 OPS at AAA before his call up. But he apparently forget his bat at Evanville because it never showed up in Detroit.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/daily-news-tom-veryzer-is-a-diamond-on-t/32825779/

[lordstanley]

Veryzer always seemed greasy. Better suited to the Indians than the Tigers. He, and the Wings' Dan Maloney, were the two players for Detroit teams I disliked in the '70s

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, CaliforniaDreaming said:

I don't get all of the angst about Harris' deadline moves.

The people who are complaining are people who just disagree with the Tigers operating principle. You have options as a team ownership: If you have the income you buy everything you want (NYM, NYY, LAD); or you build for a target window and go all out to win in that window (Tigers for a while under M Ilitch) and accept that you are going to leverage your future for your present; or you try to create your highest sustainable level of performance and hope that gets you a shot at the brass rings often enough. 

Those are choices that orgs make. Harris is on the third track. Many, many, fans want the 2nd track. But they should save their angst or just root for a different team, because if that is what you want, Harris is guaranteed to disappoint you every time. He's not on that page, and it's not by accident or incompetence. 

[IdahoBert]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The people who are complaining are people who just disagree with the Tigers operating principle. You have options as a team ownership: If you have the income you buy everything you want (NYM, NYY, LAD); or you build for a target window and go all out to win in that window (Tigers for a while under M Ilitch) and accept that you are going to leverage your future for your present; or you try to create your highest sustainable level of performance and hope that gets you a shot at the brass rings often enough. 

Those are choices that orgs make. Harris is on the third track. Many, many, fans want the 2nd track. But they should save their angst or just root for a different team, because if that is what you want, Harris is guaranteed to disappoint you every time. He's not on that page, and it's not by accident or incompetence. 

Fire @gehringer_2! 🙃

[SoCalTiger]

Harris is doing an excellent job. Not perfect but who is ? I am very comfortable with his approach and trust his decision making. I just hope we can keep him for many many years.

[Tiger337]

49 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The people who are complaining are people who just disagree with the Tigers operating principle. You have options as a team ownership: If you have the income you buy everything you want (NYM, NYY, LAD); or you build for a target window and go all out to win in that window (Tigers for a while under M Ilitch) and accept that you are going to leverage your future for your present; or you try to create your highest sustainable level of performance and hope that gets you a shot at the brass rings often enough. 

Those are choices that orgs make. Harris is on the third track. Many, many, fans want the 2nd track. But they should save their angst or just root for a different team, because if that is what you want, Harris is guaranteed to disappoint you every time. He's not on that page, and it's not by accident or incompetence. 

I think I would start getting irritated if they became like Tampa Bay selling every player when they started to become expensive, but I am pretty satisfied with what he has done to this point.  I have advocated being more aggressive about the present at times, but I'm not upset that he's not.    

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

The people who are complaining are people who just disagree with the Tigers operating principle. You have options as a team ownership: If you have the income you buy everything you want (NYM, NYY, LAD); or you build for a target window and go all out to win in that window (Tigers for a while under M Ilitch) and accept that you are going to leverage your future for your present; or you try to create your highest sustainable level of performance and hope that gets you a shot at the brass rings often enough. 

Those are choices that orgs make. Harris is on the third track. Many, many, fans want the 2nd track. But they should save their angst or just root for a different team, because if that is what you want, Harris is guaranteed to disappoint you every time. He's not on that page, and it's not by accident or incompetence. 

For all we know, Harris may have his hands tied by his bosses. I imagine spending a lot of money on salaries has to be approved by whoever is signing the checks. But like I said, it's a business. If he makes the organization a lot of money, he's doing a good job. Winning is sweet but being a contender and making the playoffs is considered successful.

Off days stink, especially after losing 4 in a row, which makes it worse. We need to win the KC series this weekend.

[chasfh]

19 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

For all we know, Harris may have his hands tied by his bosses. I imagine spending a lot of money on salaries has to be approved by whoever is signing the checks. But like I said, it's a business. If he makes the organization a lot of money, he's doing a good job. Winning is sweet but being a contender and making the playoffs is considered successful.

Off days stink, especially after losing 4 in a row, which makes it worse. We need to win the KC series this weekend.

for all we know

[Edman85]

CBT calculation up to the minute with the Braves calling up Brebbia and cutting into what the Tigers owe him:

Player	CBT Total
Jack Flaherty	$27,500,000.00
Javier Baez	$23,333,333.33
Gleyber Torres	$15,000,000.00
Alex Cobb	$15,000,000.00
Kenta Maeda	$12,000,000.00
Tarik Skubal	$10,150,000.00
Tommy Kahnle	$7,750,000.00
Colt Keith	$4,773,750.00
Jason Foley	$3,150,000.00
Matt Vierling	$3,005,000.00
Paul Sewald	$2,712,903.23
Jake Rogers	$2,640,000.00
John Brebbia	$2,623,333.33
Chris Paddack	$2,540,322.58
Casey Mize	$2,340,000.00
Charlie Morton	$2,138,709.68
Randy Dobnak	$2,016,129.03
Kyle Finnegan	$1,823,643.55
Zach McKinstry	$1,650,000.00
Andy Ibanez	$1,400,000.00
Will Vest	$1,400,000.00
Rafael Montero	$1,143,010.75
Beau Brieske	$1,025,000.00
Jose Urquidy	$1,000,000.00
Riley Greene	$812,400.00
Akil Baddoo	$800,000.00
Tyler Holton	$797,700.00
Kerry Carpenter	$796,800.00
Reese Olson	$787,100.00
Spencer Torkelson	$785,700.00
Alex Lange	$782,200.00
Parker Meadows	$781,600.00
Wenceel Perez	$770,700.00
Dillon Dingler	$762,600.00
Ty Madden	$761,400.00
Jackson Jobe	$760,900.00
Brenan Hanifee	$707,313.44
Trey Sweeney	$702,054.84
Sawyer Gipson-Long	$666,703.23
Brant Hurter	$618,403.23
Tomas Nido	$518,951.61
Sean Guenther	$511,143.01
Jahmai Jones	$500,806.45
Manuel Margot	$443,548.39
Chase Lee	$436,717.20
Justyn-Henry Malloy	$407,183.20
Keider Montero	$398,143.39
Carlos Hernandez	$280,645.16
Troy Melton	$277,849.46
Bailey Horn	$272,976.99
Ryan Kreidler	$205,648.37
Jace Jung	$202,866.67
Drew Sommers	$193,904.30
Codi Heuer	$188,521.51
Dylan Smith	$146,245.70
Dietrich Enns	$135,215.05
Matt Manning	$133,571.52
Tyler Owens	$129,351.61
Brewer Hicklen	$90,877.42
Matt Gage	$81,720.43
Tyler Mattison	$62,000.00
Luke Jackson	$61,290.32
Geoff Hartlieb	$24,516.13
P.J. Poulin	$9,333.33
Ryan Cusick	$1,666.67
Jordan Balazovic	$0.00
Wilmer Flores	$0.00
Brian Serven	$0.00
Bligh Madris	$0.00
Gage Workman	$0.00
Alex Faedo	-$100,000.00
Eduardo Rodriguez	-$933,333.33
Pre-Arb Bonus Pool	$1,666,666.67
Player Benefits	$17,500,000.00
CBT Payroll	$184,990,070.77
CBT Threshold	$241,000,000.00
CBT Room	$56,009,929.23

I am guessing on what the Tigers got from the Orioles for Morton and the Braves for Montero money-wise. The number will go up a bit as long as Paddack gets 2 2/3 IP tonight and hits his 140IP incentive.

 

[monkeytargets39]

I would not be opposed to bringing Walker Buehler in for a look and see if Fetter can do anything with him.  Red Sox just released him.

[SoCalTiger]

Looks like 65 million coming off the top for 2026 before arbitration, raises , trades and free agents. 

[SoCalTiger]

Anybody else see Boston as our biggest obstacle to the World Series???

[papalawrence]

8 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Anybody else see Boston as our biggest obstacle to the World Series???

Yes. I would not want to face them right now. Detroit will need it's bullpen and at least a couple more starters to help alongside Skubal, or it may be a moot point 

[Tenacious D]

23 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Anybody else see Boston as our biggest obstacle to the World Series???

I see about 10 teams currently. This is a flawed team that is starting to get exposed.  Bad/inconsistent starting pitching and pen.

I understand and respect how Harris approached the deadline.  This was not the team to go “all-in” with.