gehringer_2 Posted September 30 Posted September 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: The only area where the Indians are superior is the bullpen Is that like saying "The only area where the audience at Ford's theatre was deficient was John Wilkes Booth" ? Edited September 30 by gehringer_2 Quote
4hzglory Posted September 30 Posted September 30 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I did look it up, and this does not include last year's ALDS. Career .701 OPS vs the Tigers. I only post this because that is much lower than I thought. Yeah, but he had like 300 defensive runs saved this year against us 🤪 1 1 Quote
1776 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 Being realistic, I can’t see Skubal in a Tigers uniform beyond next year. He may even go at the deadline in 2026. Having said that, I can’t imagine this team without him. To this team and organization he is more than just one player. This year and last, he is the Detroit Tigers. He’s irreplaceable. As the saying goes, “It is what it is.” It’s a business. I totally understand the concerns regarding a long term $$$ commitment to a starting pitcher these days. But it’s hard to imagine this team without Skubal at the top of the rotation. Quote
Tiger337 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 2 hours ago, 1776 said: Being realistic, I can’t see Skubal in a Tigers uniform beyond next year. He may even go at the deadline in 2026. Having said that, I can’t imagine this team without him. To this team and organization he is more than just one player. This year and last, he is the Detroit Tigers. He’s irreplaceable. As the saying goes, “It is what it is.” It’s a business. I totally understand the concerns regarding a long term $$$ commitment to a starting pitcher these days. But it’s hard to imagine this team without Skubal at the top of the rotation. It's easy to imagine. Threy have had many crappy examples of such teams over the past decade. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 3 hours ago, 1776 said: Being realistic, I can’t see Skubal in a Tigers uniform beyond next year Agree. How many hundred times have we heard the word "sustainable" from Harris and Ilitch? Contracts like Skubal will command are the definition of 'unsustainable'. Quote
KL2 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 21 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Agree. How many hundred times have we heard the word "sustainable" from Harris and Ilitch? Contracts like Skubal will command are the definition of 'unsustainable'. I dont think one contract makes it unsustainable. Its when you have many that its probably not. But he gave out 250 million just a couple offseasons ago its not like he wont give out money. It's a bit of a misnomer that Illitch wont pay anyone and not backed up by proof. It's how many 40 million guys can we afford or willing to pay that makes it unsustanable Quote
oblong Posted October 1 Posted October 1 and he's not going to resign before hitting FA. Even if the Tigers offered him a deal in the 35-40M range over 5-7 years.... that's an offer by a team competing against itself. That's an old market. He's been clear about feeling an obligation to set the market for his peers and those who come after. That's just the way it is. He's making what he makes because others did it before him. Quote
HugoD Posted October 1 Posted October 1 On 9/29/2025 at 2:46 PM, monkeytargets39 said: Also, if Skubal wants to ask for 400 mil next offseason, I’m gonna need to see a minimum of 8 shutout innings tomorrow. Came close! 380 mil? 🙂 Quote
papalawrence Posted October 1 Posted October 1 (edited) Someone will offer Skubal 9/400. Will take him to age 38 Edited October 1 by papalawrence Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 (edited) We need to do everything in our power to retain Skubal. If he chooses to leave, then so be it….but him leaving shouldn’t be because we aren’t willing to give him what he wants to stay. 1.) He and Skenes are the top 2 pitchers in baseball. If any pitcher is going to get a huge contract- it should be them. Don’t worry about future injury risk unless that has been a frequent problem. Skubal had the one injury and surgery several years ago, and came back from it quickly and was almost immediately back to being impactful. Other than that, he has more than proven that he is sturdy and a workhorse. Not being willing to pay him a big contract and then instead bringing in 60 million a year in injury riddled pitchers you hope you can rehab makes no sense. 2.) This guy IS the organization. Just like Verlander before him. Allowing him to leave and go win elsewhere is a swift kick in the nuts to Detroit fans who have already seen so many of the players they’ve embraced leave and win. Stop kicking us in the balls. Be different this time, and if it doesn’t work—then it’s excusable next time. 3.) The pitching staff beyond him is not particularly stable. Flaherty will probably be back, and then you have a ton of guys who are still on rookie or arbitration deals. Mize/Olson/Jobe/Melton/Montero/SGL/etc. are all cheap, but most all of them have been fragile. So we need depth there, but we also need the consistent anchor. There really isn’t a true staff anchor ace available this offseason as of now either. If we didn’t have Skubal this year, we are a 4th place team in the division. 4. IF it becomes clear that he has no interest in re-signing with us for a mega deal, then you need to move him this offseason. Don’t wait until the deadline because we will be pressured to move him, everyone will know that, and we won’t get top value in return. In addition, half the teams in the league will be selling at that point, so our pool of best possible suitors drops substantially. Either sit him down this offseason and express our intentions to go all in for him and use that to gauge the likelihood of him staying, or trade him for a MASSIVE haul. Failure to do either of those two things should cost the entire front office their jobs, and if the problem is Illitch not being willing- then Tiger fans need to get real f’ing loud at him. Edited October 1 by monkeytargets39 1 Quote
SeattleMike Posted October 1 Posted October 1 11 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: We need to do everything in our power to retain Skubal. If he chooses to leave, then so be it….but him leaving shouldn’t be because we aren’t willing to give him what he wants to stay. 1.) He and Skenes are the top 2 pitchers in baseball. If any pitcher is going to get a huge contract- it should be them. Don’t worry about future injury risk unless that has been a frequent problem. Skubal had the one injury and surgery several years ago, and came back from it quickly and was almost immediately back to being impactful. Other than that, he has more than proven that he is sturdy and a workhorse. Not being willing to pay him a big contract and then instead bringing in 60 million a year in injury riddled pitchers you hope you can rehab makes no sense. 2.) This guy IS the organization. Just like Verlander before him. Allowing him to leave and go win elsewhere is a swift kick in the nuts to Detroit fans who have already seen so many of the players they’ve embraced leave and win. Stop kicking us in the balls. Be different this time, and if it doesn’t work—then it’s excusable next time. 3.) The pitching staff beyond him is not particularly stable. Flaherty will probably be back, and then you have a ton of guys who are still on rookie or arbitration deals. Mize/Olson/Jobe/Melton/Montero/SGL/etc. are all cheap, but most all of them have been fragile. So we need depth there, but we also need the consistent anchor. There really isn’t a true staff anchor ace available this offseason as of now either. If we didn’t have Skubal this year, we are a 4th place team in the division. 4. IF it becomes clear that he has no interest in re-signing with us for a mega deal, then you need to move him this offseason. Don’t wait until the deadline because we will be pressured to move him, everyone will know that, and we won’t get top value in return. In addition, half the teams in the league will be selling at that point, so our pool of best possible suitors drops substantially. Either sit him down this offseason and express our intentions to go all in for him and use that to gauge the likelihood of him staying, or trade him for a MASSIVE haul. Failure to do either of those two things should cost the entire front office their jobs, and if the problem is Illitch not being willing- then Tiger fans need to get real f’ing loud at him. Mize is a free agent after next year. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 3 minutes ago, SeattleMike said: Mize is a free agent after next year. Right, but he is a lot more replaceable than Skubal. Quote
4hzglory Posted October 1 Posted October 1 10 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: We need to do everything in our power to retain Skubal. If he chooses to leave, then so be it….but him leaving shouldn’t be because we aren’t willing to give him what he wants to stay. 1.) He and Skenes are the top 2 pitchers in baseball. If any pitcher is going to get a huge contract- it should be them. Don’t worry about future injury risk unless that has been a frequent problem. Skubal had the one injury and surgery several years ago, and came back from it quickly and was almost immediately back to being impactful. Other than that, he has more than proven that he is sturdy and a workhorse. Not being willing to pay him a big contract and then instead bringing in 60 million a year in injury riddled pitchers you hope you can rehab makes no sense. 2.) This guy IS the organization. Just like Verlander before him. Allowing him to leave and go win elsewhere is a swift kick in the nuts to Detroit fans who have already seen so many of the players they’ve embraced leave and win. Stop kicking us in the balls. Be different this time, and if it doesn’t work—then it’s excusable next time. 3.) The pitching staff beyond him is not particularly stable. Flaherty will probably be back, and then you have a ton of guys who are still on rookie or arbitration deals. Mize/Olson/Jobe/Melton/Montero/SGL/etc. are all cheap, but most all of them have been fragile. So we need depth there, but we also need the consistent anchor. There really isn’t a true staff anchor ace available this offseason as of now either. If we didn’t have Skubal this year, we are a 4th place team in the division. 4. IF it becomes clear that he has no interest in re-signing with us for a mega deal, then you need to move him this offseason. Don’t wait until the deadline because we will be pressured to move him, everyone will know that, and we won’t get top value in return. In addition, half the teams in the league will be selling at that point, so our pool of best possible suitors drops substantially. Either sit him down this offseason and express our intentions to go all in for him and use that to gauge the likelihood of him staying, or trade him for a MASSIVE haul. Failure to do either of those two things should cost the entire front office their jobs, and if the problem is Illitch not being willing- then Tiger fans need to get real f’ing loud at him. Completely disagree about the need to trade him if he isn’t going to sign. (I don’t believe he is) For one, history shows the trade haul for 1 year of an Ace, no matter how dominant, isn’t as massive as many seem to believe it will be. And no matter what happened at the end, we have shown we should be competing next year again. The odds of that happening decrease significantly without Skubal as like you said, our other rotation options aren’t much different than now and Jobe won’t be fully recovered at least at the start of the season if at all in 2026. People that complain about our trade deadline, but think we need to move Skubal if he won’t sign baffle me. He is one of the few true pitchers who can basically win a series. A full season of him on a team with aspirations of advancing in the playoffs and a comp pick are worth a considerable amount, and IMO more than the likely packages offered. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 4 minutes ago, 4hzglory said: Completely disagree about the need to trade him if he isn’t going to sign. (I don’t believe he is) For one, history shows the trade haul for 1 year of an Ace, no matter how dominant, isn’t as massive as many seem to believe it will be. And no matter what happened at the end, we have shown we should be competing next year again. The odds of that happening decrease significantly without Skubal as like you said, our other rotation options aren’t much different than now and Jobe won’t be fully recovered at least at the start of the season if at all in 2026. People that complain about our trade deadline, but think we need to move Skubal if he won’t sign baffle me. He is one of the few true pitchers who can basically win a series. A full season of him on a team with aspirations of advancing in the playoffs and a comp pick are worth a considerable amount, and IMO more than the likely packages offered. Fair point, but the Verlander trade set us back a decade. We have much more young talent to build around this time—but letting Skubal leave without maximizing a return would be really hard to overcome. Keeping him all year in hopes of making a deep playoff run would be great….but this roster needs a lot of other retooling for that to be a viable goal at the start of next year. Now if we go out and sign some legit talent and make some impactful trades this offseason and level up this roster—I’d be more inclined to agree with you. We can’t run a lineup with 5 platoon hitters next year and a bargain bin bullpen next year and expect to get further than we have the last two years. Quote
Edman85 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 Take the term of the contract you want to offer Skubal. Divide that by 2. Go back that many years and see who the top pitchers were. How are they doing now? I'm not necessarily saying let him walk, but between comp pick for him (maybe Mize too?), Competitive Balance A round (if revenues don't boot us from that round), the 2027 draft could be pretty lucrative even with a playoff appearance next year. 1 Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted October 1 Posted October 1 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Take the term of the contract you want to offer Skubal. Divide that by 2. Go back that many years and see who the top pitchers were. How are they doing now? I'm not necessarily saying let him walk, but between comp pick for him (maybe Mize too?), Competitive Balance A round (if revenues don't boot us from that round), the 2027 draft could be pretty lucrative even with a playoff appearance next year. To me, it’s not that the contract makes good financial sense and isn’t risky, but rather that it’s what you have to do if you want to compete in today’s MLB. We will all piss and moan about the Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/etc. but then will sit here and waffle about if it’s worth it to sign a guy like Skubal to a big deal. It’s Tarik Skubal, it’s not like you’d be offering that to someone like Ranger Suarez, Dylan Cease or Zack Littell. You’d be paying big to have him for the next 3-4 years while the rest of your core hits their prime and the next wave of top prospects is breaking in. If the contract goes south in year 5-7, then you take that risk to chase the big reward. Otherwise, we have no one close to being ready to step in as an ace. Jobe is your best bet and he’s got a lot to still develop. It’s not like we have a lot of good pitching depth currently either where there’s help on the horizon. Theres going to come a point where a lot of the rest of the roster is going to start getting much more expensive to maintain and we will have to cut bait with some of them. So go for it while we have a core group that we know has the potential to compete for it. Edited October 2 by monkeytargets39 Quote
Tenacious D Posted October 2 Posted October 2 Will we ever know how serious/aggressive the Tigers will be in re-signing Skubal? Will they need to provide specific contract terms? They are in a no-win situation on this. Quote
Hongbit Posted October 2 Posted October 2 (edited) I don’t think it’s possible for the Tigers to re-sign Skubal. Scott Boras wants him to hit the open market. It’s good for his business. The Tigers have no choice but to trade him next year. They need to have some control over his destination and send him to the NL. They can’t afford to let him walk for a compensatory pick and then sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, or Blue Jays. It would be disastrous losing him to a team that you have to face in a short playoff series. Edited October 2 by Hongbit Quote
Tiger337 Posted October 2 Posted October 2 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Hongbit said: I don’t think it’s possible for the Tigers to re-sign Skubal. Scott Boras wants him to hit the open market. It’s good for his business. The Tigers have no choice but to trade him next year. They need to have some control over his destination and send him to the NL. They can’t afford to let him walk for a compensatory pick and then sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, or Blue Jays. It would be disastrous losing him to a team that you have to face in a short playoff series. I think if they trade him, it means that they don't think they'll be in the playoffs in 2026. So, it doesn't matter who gets him. Then he is going to be a free agent after they year regardless and in that case the Tigers won't have control over who gets him. The only thing they can control is keeping him through 2026 and hoping that he leads them to one World Championship. Edited October 2 by Tiger337 1 Quote
Hongbit Posted October 2 Posted October 2 41 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I think if they trade him, it means that they don't think they'll be in the playoffs in 2026. So, it doesn't matter who gets him. Then he is going to be a free agent after the year regardless and in that case the Tigers won't have control over who gets him. The only thing they can control is keeping him through 2026 and hoping that he leads them to one World Championship. I don’t agree with that. If they trade him this offseason, there will be at least one team in the NL who would do it for the long term. They would most likely have parameters of a deal worked out with Boras before consummating any trade with the Tigers. If they were to wait until the deadline then yes the possibility exists of a rental deal that allows Skubal to hit the market and choose at the end of 2026. Another reason for the Tigers to move him this offseason. Quote
papalawrence Posted October 2 Posted October 2 I think Harris will listen to offers, but unless he's blown away, I don't think he'll trade Skubal. The likely 2027 lockout will factor into 2026 free agency. Skubal could be heading toward Cooperstown so I'd love to see him stay. But I also felt that about Lincecum, J Santana, Bumgartner, etc. The investment rarely works. Guys like JV and Max are the exception Quote
casimir Posted October 2 Posted October 2 19 hours ago, KL2 said: I dont think one contract makes it unsustainable. Its when you have many that its probably not. But he gave out 250 million just a couple offseasons ago its not like he wont give out money. It's a bit of a misnomer that Illitch wont pay anyone and not backed up by proof. It's how many 40 million guys can we afford or willing to pay that makes it unsustanable Along those lines, there's nobody else within the organization that has earned that kind of franchise cornerstone contract. So, this would be one, not one of a few contracts on the books for the foreseeable future. Quote
monkeytargets39 Posted October 2 Posted October 2 9 hours ago, Hongbit said: I don’t think it’s possible for the Tigers to re-sign Skubal. Scott Boras wants him to hit the open market. It’s good for his business. The Tigers have no choice but to trade him next year. They need to have some control over his destination and send him to the NL. They can’t afford to let him walk for a compensatory pick and then sign with the Yankees, Red Sox, or Blue Jays. It would be disastrous losing him to a team that you have to face in a short playoff series. We aren’t a playoff team without him though. Quote
gehringer_2 Posted October 2 Posted October 2 (edited) 11 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: We aren’t a playoff team without him though. Fixing that is Scott Harris' job. That's why you hire the smartest guy in the room, right? He knew coming in he was in a market that was not going to give out that kind of contract, he better have planned for it. Edited October 2 by gehringer_2 Quote
Hongbit Posted October 2 Posted October 2 34 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said: We aren’t a playoff team without him though. Agree in 2026. Don’t think it’s off the table in seasons following. Part of that will depend on what they get back in Skubal deal. Quote
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