mtutiger Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, oblong said: Happy 7 year anniversary Obviously, in retrospect, it was such a good opportunity for this team to make a clean break and bring in new minds. But opportunity missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Obviously, in retrospect, it was such a good opportunity for this team to make a clean break and bring in new minds. But opportunity missed. Just a couple of days after the deadline. We traded away David Price and Mike was pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 detroit is a gleaming new city? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, oblong said: Happy 7 year anniversary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, buddha said: detroit is a gleaming new city? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: Just a couple of days after the deadline. We traded away David Price and Mike was pissed. Incorrect answer. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 8 hours ago, buddha said: detroit is a gleaming new city? according to the hype - and not just around here. just make sure you stay downtown Detroit went from looking like it was bombed to being full of expensive apartments and restaurants. no middle ground. and that's why it will probably fail eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said: according to the hype - and not just around here. just make sure you stay downtown Detroit went from looking like it was bombed to being full of expensive apartments and restaurants. no middle ground. and that's why it will probably fail eventually. i grew up in detroit. ive been back recently. its better now. but it is NOT gleaming. its still a crappy midwestern industrial town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, buddha said: i grew up in detroit. ive been back recently. its better now. but it is NOT gleaming. its still a crappy midwestern industrial town. But Time magazine rated it as one of the best cities in the WORLD. The WORLD, man, The WORLD ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkelly Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 It's fashionable to say old, desolate cities such as Detroit are glamourous now because one or two blocks have been fixed up. I guess the abandoned homes, crack houses, and packs of stray dogs roaming around the streets are trendy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 This is why I stil have belief in Avila... You can disagree with me on each and every single name on this list (I'm projecting what our 2025 Lineup could be, plus 40-man guys, AAA guys not on the 40... and probably a few too many bench guys but that can be whittled down... probably quite easily as I see at least a few names I'd like to show the door...) just to take a look at some expectations/ available/ and push back where there are more names available than spots... Also, the bullpen is fungible so you can swap any or all names there too... 2025 Tigers (projection): Projecting Detroit Tigers, 2025: Position Starter Backup 40-Man or AAA Catcher Dillon Dingler Jake Rogers Josh Crouch 1B Spencer Torkelson Harold Castro Peyton Graham 2B Javy Baez Kody Clemens Jace Jung SS Wenceel Perez Gage Workman Christian Santana Manuel Sequera Trei Cruz 3B Colten Keith Adinso Reyes Izaac Pacheco OF LF - Akil Baddoo Daz Cameron Jose De La Cruz CF - Riley Greene Bryant Packard RF - Parker Meadows Willi Castro Roberto Campos DH Kerry Carpenter Eric Haase Andre Lipcius Andrew Navigato Rotation Matt Manning Reese Olson Tarik Skubal Joey Wentz Eduardo Rodriguez Beau Brieske Casey Mize Jackson Jobe Wilmer Flores Ty Madden Bullpen Joe Jimenez Dylan Smith Greg Soto Aaron Haase Alex Lange Juan Polanco Jason Foley Ignacio Briceno Ty Alexander Darwyn Zambrano Alex Faedo Rony Garcia Brant Hurter Donal Montas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 46 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: This is why I stil have belief in Avila... You can disagree with me on each and every single name on this list (I'm projecting what our 2025 Lineup could be, plus 40-man guys, AAA guys not on the 40... and probably a few too many bench guys but that can be whittled down... probably quite easily as I see at least a few names I'd like to show the door...) just to take a look at some expectations/ available/ and push back where there are more names available than spots... Also, the bullpen is fungible so you can swap any or all names there too... 2025 Tigers (projection): Projecting Detroit Tigers, 2025: Position Starter Backup 40-Man or AAA Catcher Dillon Dingler Jake Rogers Josh Crouch 1B Spencer Torkelson Harold Castro Peyton Graham 2B Javy Baez Kody Clemens Jace Jung SS Wenceel Perez Gage Workman Christian Santana Manuel Sequera Trei Cruz 3B Colten Keith Adinso Reyes Izaac Pacheco OF LF - Akil Baddoo Daz Cameron Jose De La Cruz CF - Riley Greene Bryant Packard RF - Parker Meadows Willi Castro Roberto Campos DH Kerry Carpenter Eric Haase Andre Lipcius Andrew Navigato Rotation Matt Manning Reese Olson Tarik Skubal Joey Wentz Eduardo Rodriguez Beau Brieske Casey Mize Jackson Jobe Wilmer Flores Ty Madden Bullpen Joe Jimenez Dylan Smith Greg Soto Aaron Haase Alex Lange Juan Polanco Jason Foley Ignacio Briceno Ty Alexander Darwyn Zambrano Alex Faedo Rony Garcia Brant Hurter Donal Montas you may be the most optimistic man alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: This is why I stil have belief in Avila... You can disagree with me on each and every single name on this list (I'm projecting what our 2025 Lineup could be, plus 40-man guys, AAA guys not on the 40... and probably a few too many bench guys but that can be whittled down... probably quite easily as I see at least a few names I'd like to show the door...) just to take a look at some expectations/ available/ and push back where there are more names available than spots... Also, the bullpen is fungible so you can swap any or all names there too... 2025 Tigers (projection): Projecting Detroit Tigers, 2025: Position Starter Backup 40-Man or AAA Catcher Dillon Dingler Jake Rogers Josh Crouch 1B Spencer Torkelson Harold Castro Peyton Graham 2B Javy Baez Kody Clemens Jace Jung SS Wenceel Perez Gage Workman Christian Santana Manuel Sequera Trei Cruz 3B Colten Keith Adinso Reyes Izaac Pacheco OF LF - Akil Baddoo Daz Cameron Jose De La Cruz CF - Riley Greene Bryant Packard RF - Parker Meadows Willi Castro Roberto Campos DH Kerry Carpenter Eric Haase Andre Lipcius Andrew Navigato Rotation Matt Manning Reese Olson Tarik Skubal Joey Wentz Eduardo Rodriguez Beau Brieske Casey Mize Jackson Jobe Wilmer Flores Ty Madden Bullpen Joe Jimenez Dylan Smith Greg Soto Aaron Haase Alex Lange Juan Polanco Jason Foley Ignacio Briceno Ty Alexander Darwyn Zambrano Alex Faedo Rony Garcia Brant Hurter Donal Montas What an awful exercise of futility. Are you still in Tennessee? Go get some fresh air. Do not feed the bears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 8/4/2022 at 9:23 AM, mtutiger said: Obviously, in retrospect, it was such a good opportunity for this team to make a clean break and bring in new minds. But opportunity missed. True but at the time I can understand promoting Avila since he was the right hand man for a decade of good Tiger baseball at that time. It's not like the Lions promoting Mayhew after Millen was fired or something. Of course little did we know then how little Avila had to do with that success, on the surface at the time you thought with him working closely with DD all those years he would've picked up his strong traits while also being more "new school" than him and focusing more on analytics and player development instead of relying on trades or FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: True but at the time I can understand promoting Avila since he was the right hand man for a decade of good Tiger baseball at that time. It's not like the Lions promoting Mayhew after Millen was fired or something. Of course little did we know then how little Avila had to do with that success, on the surface at the time you thought with him working closely with DD all those years he would've picked up his strong traits while also being more "new school" than him and focusing more on analytics and player development instead of relying on trades or FA. An engaged ownership group would have known that. I know DD was the CEO and President too so he's more than just the GM therefore everyone in the office probably had some reservations speaking about him in a negative way because he's everybody's boss. But if you as an owner see failure from a guy like DD who runs everything you don't just chop off the head and give everybody else a bump and think it'll work out. Ilitch's problem wasn't that he saw failure. He just got sick of the idea that someone was getting too much credit and wanted big money. It's his team dammit, not anybody else's. He was jealous of DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 minute ago, oblong said: An engaged ownership group would have known that. I know DD was the CEO and President too so he's more than just the GM therefore everyone in the office probably had some reservations speaking about him in a negative way because he's everybody's boss. But if you as an owner see failure from a guy like DD who runs everything you don't just chop off the head and give everybody else a bump and think it'll work out. Ilitch's problem wasn't that he saw failure. He just got sick of the idea that someone was getting too much credit and wanted big money. It's his team dammit, not anybody else's. He was jealous of DD. i thought illitch was mad DD was rumored to be talking to the red sox? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 17 minutes ago, buddha said: i thought illitch was mad DD was rumored to be talking to the red sox? I thought so too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 51 minutes ago, buddha said: i thought illitch was mad DD was rumored to be talking to the red sox? This was the exact reason Ilitch dumped DD. Loyalty means everything to Ilitch and DD was disloyal just "talking" about the Red Sox (He said about two weeks prior to his release that he would "love" to work for an organization like the Red Sox, what a wonderful Org they were...). THAT is the reason he was released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: This was the exact reason Ilitch dumped DD. Loyalty means everything to Ilitch and DD was disloyal just "talking" about the Red Sox (He said about two weeks prior to his release that he would "love" to work for an organization like the Red Sox, what a wonderful Org they were...). THAT is the reason he was released. which was a weird thing to say wasn't it? Wasn't he #1 guy? If he liked the Red Sox org, why wasn't he building the Tiger org into it? Was M I pinching pennies everywhere else even though he didn't mind big player contracts? So now we get the inverse? They are trying to build the deeper org but they're doing it with a guy who has the right road map but isn't a very good driver. Edited August 5, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, casimir said: What an awful exercise of futility. Are you still in Tennessee? Go get some fresh air. Do not feed the bears. Maybe... But I've already stated that I think this is a redux of the late 70's Tigers, it's not a redux of the late 90's Tigers... and that I think the year is "1979", not 1983 or 1984. We're obviously not "on the cusp". I believe that was my 2021 statement (trying to get everyone to come off the ledge after our awful start); and it's the same statement I made this preseason. We're not their yet. But we have a lot of talented kids, even if no one else sees it. 1977 rookies: Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Jason Thompson (actually 1976), Lance Parrish, Jack Morris, Steve Kemp, Dave Rozema. 1979 rookies: Dan Petry, Kirk Gibson, Lynn Jones, Tom Brookens. 1982 rookies: Howard Johnson. A few things: Not all those players made it to 1984. Some were traded for other pieces (Kemp for Chet Lemon) that fit better. Not all players were stars, but were just bench, or bullpen, or other bit players. And to build 1984, additional "other" pieces were still needed through trades or FA signings. Also... 1979 when we had all that talent already in MLB... STILL took until 1984 to win it all. Gosh I hope when all these new kids come up it doesn't take that long to go all the way... But I think the talent that Avila has amassed in the minors, right now, and just starting to break into MLB over the past couple years (well also Turnbull 4 years ago, Jimenez 5 years ago...), is capable of building the same type of team. Talented enough to make the playoffs and possibly go all the way. I think our system is boatloaded with talent right now, even if it's not arriving or handling MLB as fast as everyone wants. I mean, obviously, hence all the complaints against AA. But I have a higher belief in most of these prospects (not ALL of them will make it, obviously); much higher than apparently anyone else on this board. I believe in Tork's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Riley Greene's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Baddoo's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Cameron's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wenceel's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Manning's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Skubal's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Mize's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wilmer Flores's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Brieske's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Dingler's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Faedo's talent (even if he's be better off in the BP), and believe he will "make it", I believe in Colt Keith's talent (I really like this dude as a prospect). I might even believe that Parker Meadows will "make it" after thinking he was a total flop... because he apparently has fixed the flaw in his swing. And I haven't even gotten into the International guys (aside from Wenceel) who I think will grow into "real" prospects over the next couple of years, or this year's draft picks (high hopes for Jung and Graham), or Jobe or Madden or Dylan Smith from 2021... Pre-2020 Rookies: 2019 Jake Rogers & Tyler Alexander & Greg Soto, 2018 Spencer Turnbull, 2017 Joe Jimenez. 2020 Rookies: Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, Daz Cameron, Rony Garcia, 2021 Rookies: Matt Manning, Akil Baddoo, Alex Lange, Jason Foley, 2022 Rookies: Spencer Torkelson, Riley Greene, Beau Brieske, Kody Clemens, Joey Wentz, Alex Faedo, 2023 Rookies (guessing... even if it's just a September cup of coffee): Wenceel Perez, Dillon Dingler, Parker Meadows, Reese Olson, Ryan Kreidler, Kerry Carpenter, maybe Wilmer Flores too... 2024 Rookies (same, guessing): Colt Keith, Gage Workman... maybe a BP guy or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 as they say in the south: "well bless your heart." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 1 minute ago, buddha said: as they say in the south: "well bless your heart." The south sucks. So I don't give fig what they think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: The south sucks. So I don't give fig what they think. they think derrick hill is not going to be jacque jones, so they're one up on you. lol. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 12 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Maybe... But I've already stated that I think this is a redux of the late 70's Tigers, it's not a redux of the late 90's Tigers... and that I think the year is "1979", not 1983 or 1984. We're obviously not "on the cusp". I believe that was my 2021 statement (trying to get everyone to come off the ledge after our awful start); and it's the same statement I made this preseason. We're not their yet. But we have a lot of talented kids, even if no one else sees it. 1977 rookies: Alan Trammell, Lou Whitaker, Jason Thompson (actually 1976), Lance Parrish, Jack Morris, Steve Kemp, Dave Rozema. 1979 rookies: Dan Petry, Kirk Gibson, Lynn Jones, Tom Brookens. 1982 rookies: Howard Johnson. A few things: Not all those players made it to 1984. Some were traded for other pieces (Kemp for Chet Lemon) that fit better. Not all players were stars, but were just bench, or bullpen, or other bit players. And to build 1984, additional "other" pieces were still needed through trades or FA signings. Also... 1979 when we had all that talent already in MLB... STILL took until 1984 to win it all. Gosh I hope when all these new kids come up it doesn't take that long to go all the way... But I think the talent that Avila has amassed in the minors, right now, and just starting to break into MLB over the past couple years (well also Turnbull 4 years ago, Jimenez 5 years ago...), is capable of building the same type of team. Talented enough to make the playoffs and possibly go all the way. I think our system is boatloaded with talent right now, even if it's not arriving or handling MLB as fast as everyone wants. I mean, obviously, hence all the complaints against AA. But I have a higher belief in most of these prospects (not ALL of them will make it, obviously); much higher than apparently anyone else on this board. I believe in Tork's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Riley Greene's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Baddoo's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Cameron's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wenceel's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Manning's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Skubal's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Mize's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Wilmer Flores's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Brieske's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Dingler's talent, and believe he will "make it", I believe in Faedo's talent (even if he's be better off in the BP), and believe he will "make it", I believe in Colt Keith's talent (I really like this dude as a prospect). I might even believe that Parker Meadows will "make it" after thinking he was a total flop... because he apparently has fixed the flaw in his swing. And I haven't even gotten into the International guys (aside from Wenceel) who I think will grow into "real" prospects over the next couple of years, or this year's draft picks (high hopes for Jung and Graham), or Jobe or Madden or Dylan Smith from 2021... Pre-2020 Rookies: 2019 Jake Rogers & Tyler Alexander & Greg Soto, 2018 Spencer Turnbull, 2017 Joe Jimenez. 2020 Rookies: Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal, Daz Cameron, Rony Garcia, 2021 Rookies: Matt Manning, Akil Baddoo, Alex Lange, Jason Foley, 2022 Rookies: Spencer Torkelson, Riley Greene, Beau Brieske, Kody Clemens, Joey Wentz, Alex Faedo, 2023 Rookies (guessing... even if it's just a September cup of coffee): Wenceel Perez, Dillon Dingler, Parker Meadows, Reese Olson, Ryan Kreidler, Kerry Carpenter, maybe Wilmer Flores too... 2024 Rookies (same, guessing): Colt Keith, Gage Workman... maybe a BP guy or two... Its a completely different era. Completely different front office. No, your "answers" are wrong. No. No. No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted August 6, 2022 Share Posted August 6, 2022 Time will tell who is wrong on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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