2026 Trade deadline

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, holygoat said:

You keep using that term. I don't think it means what you think it means.

To me, a cant miss prospect is a player who will play in MLB. JV was considered cant miss when he was drafted.

[monkeytargets39]

26 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

July collapse? Maybe he meant May, otherwise how embarrassing for a guy who gets paid to look at Baseball Reference.

I literally only use ESPN to look up rosters and schedules.  Their reporting falloff is worth a 30 for 30 documentary

[Sports_Freak]

35 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

Daz Cameron had one good year in the minors. Hope has been consistently productive. I trust the guys who have been consistently good over the ones with one breakout year. For what that is worth. 

And I trust Harris and his scouts more than Avila and his team. But my point remains, most prospects never pan out. And like I said, I wanna see Hope make it at an All Star level. I trust the judgements of Harris.

[Jason_R]

 

Say what you will about the situation, I don't think he is manufacturing this kind of emotion. Nobody will ever convince me that he didn't want to stay in Detroit. Maybe will choose not to sign a new contract before the lockout and will come back after. 

[NorthWoods]

42 minutes ago, SeattleMike said:

July collapse? Maybe he meant May, otherwise how embarrassing for a guy who gets paid to look at Baseball Reference.

Probably referring to the mini collapse at the end vs Orioles

[Biff Mayhem]

10 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

 

Say what you will about the situation, I don't think he is manufacturing this kind of emotion. Nobody will ever convince me that he didn't want to stay in Detroit. Maybe will choose not to sign a new contract before the lockout and will come back after. 

Yeah I’ve seen his awkward insurance commercial. He’s not an actor. 

[JackMorrisStache]

For what it’s worth, a friend of mine is a scout in the Dodgers organization. I asked him his thoughts on the prospects/analysis of the deal:

“You got three good ones from us. But I think we got the bigger deal. River Ryan when fully healthy has Skenes type stuff. Zyhir Hope is a big leaguer. Don’t know Brady Smith personally like the others but all indicators are will be a nice big leaguer.”

[monkeytargets39]

1 minute ago, JackMorrisStache said:

River Ryan when fully healthy has Skenes type stuff.

Hopefully he meant last two years Skenes and not this year Skenes

[monkeytargets39]

I can’t feel bad for Skubal.

This played out how he wanted it to.  If he loved being here so much he could’ve not hired Boras, could’ve signed a big, yet reasonable extension, and could have not missed 2 months of our year to contend because he decided not to disclose a possible elbow injury three months before the season started just so he could win more arbitration money.  If he loves it here and loves his teammates so much, then guess what he can do this offseason.

He has gotten everything he wanted in this situation.   

Edited August 2 by monkeytargets39

[papalawrence]

2 hours ago, NorthWoods said:

1969-1973 Lolich 30.3 WAR. 2 year peak 15.9 71-72

2021-2025 Skubal 18.3 WAR 2 year peak 13.1 24-25

Ok, so again, you take Wilbur Wood over Skubal. His WAR 1971-73 was 30.0. Pitching more innings equals greater WAR. Had Lolich thrown 100mph with greater spin he would never had pitched 300 innings. Eras are apples to oranges. I love Mickey, RIP. And we disagree. 

And you said any team builder would take Lolich over Skubal? Wow, I think you are wrong there. All GMs who saw both pitch would take Lolich? I'll bet you that's not true.

Edited August 2 by papalawrence

[Sports_Freak]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Statistically, Hope is one of the best hitting prospects they have ever acquired via trade in my lifetime.  I don't believe he has the scouting grades of Clark and McGonigle, but he is intriguing.  

I was looking at his HR and stolen base totals last night. A combination of power and speed. Looks really good for a young player. The strikeouts (if it's a high %) can be deceiving because of AA pitchers who can't throw strikes. But are his stats better than even Miggy's?

Edited August 2 by Sports_Freak

[Jason_R]

17 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I can’t feel bad for Skubal.

This played out how he wanted it to.  If he loved being here so much he could’ve not hired Boras, could’ve signed a big, yet reasonable extension, and could have not missed 2 months of our year to contend because he decided not to disclose a possible elbow injury three months before the season started just so he could win more arbitration money.  If he loves it here and loves his teammates so much, then guess what he can do this offseason.

He has gotten everything he wanted in this situation.   

I don't think anyone feels bad for him. I do think it is bad for all parties that the Dodgers and only the Dodgers appear to have the cash to swing a trade like this and handle the payroll implications.

Again, it seems unlikely there will be an MLB season next year, so who knows what will happen with his next contract.  

[Sports_Freak]

29 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

Probably referring to the mini collapse at the end vs Orioles

4 games. Our bullpen lost 2 to KC and 1 to Baltimore in a 5 game stretch. All winnable games. And we're still gonna be a wild card team. 😄

[papalawrence]

For a decade now, back to 2017, River Ryan has pitched as many as 60 innings one time. 2023 he pitched 104 innings. Second highest is 52. To think he pops into the starting rotation is dreaming large. I think back end of bullpen is more realistic

[Tenacious D]

2 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I don't think anyone feels bad for him. I do think it is bad for all parties that the Dodgers and only the Dodgers appear to have the cash to swing a trade like this and handle the payroll implications.

Again, it seems unlikely there will be an MLB season next year, so who knows what will happen with his next contract.  

The Brewers allegedly said they could absorb salary in any deal.  They apparently did not want to give up the prospect capital to match or exceed what the Dodgers could stomach.  I’d be bummed if I’m a fan of the Brewers, Cubs, Braves or Phillies.  The road to the WS just became more formidable.

[4hzglory]

5 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

For a decade now, back to 2017, River Ryan has pitched as many as 60 innings one time. 2023 he pitched 104 innings. Second highest is 52. To think he pops into the starting rotation is dreaming large. I think back end of bullpen is more realistic

Well, up until 2022 he was basically a position player/prospect.  He didn’t convert to pitching full-time until the Dodgers acquired him in 2022 which makes me feel better about his age than I did before.

[NorthWoods]

12 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

Ok, so again, you take Wilbur Wood over Skubal. His WAR 1971-73 was 30.0. Pitching more innings equals greater WAR. Had Lolich thrown 100mph with greater spin he would never had pitched 300 innings. Eras are apples to oranges. I love Mickey, RIP. And we disagree. 

And you said any team builder would take Lolich over Skubal? Wow, I think you are wrong there. All GMs who saw both pitch would take Lolich? I'll bet you that's not true.

1) I never said that about Wilbur Wood.  Someone else dragged him into the conversation.

2) I won't disagree that today's style of pitching limits what their arms can do.  I will argue that perhaps that's not necessary to get hitters out.   At the same time Nolan Ryan and others were throwing 100mph there were pitchers throwing much slower and yet were very effective.  So to make the argument that pitchers HAVE to throw so hard that they tire quickly or blow their arms out to get hitters out is invalid.  I'll take the pitcher that knows how to get hitters out AND can throw high innings.

3) Eras are apples to oranges to a degree but there are also players than span eras and we often see what worked in one era will work in another.   The lowered mound was brought up, Lolich actually had better numbers AFTER the mound was lowered.  No one can tell me Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle wouldn't be great players today yet the bulk of their careers happened 60-70 years ago.

But you go ahead and take Skubal.  While he's on the IL Mickey will churning innings out.

 

 

Plus Mickey made better donuts.

[holygoat]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

Another lazy argument.  most people are taller today.  If he was born in 2000, he would probably have been a lot taller.  

He woulda been a baller...

[papalawrence]

7 minutes ago, NorthWoods said:

1) I never said that about Wilbur Wood.  Someone else dragged him into the conversation.

2) I won't disagree that today's style of pitching limits what their arms can do.  I will argue that perhaps that's not necessary to get hitters out.   At the same time Nolan Ryan and others were throwing 100mph there were pitchers throwing much slower and yet were very effective.  So to make the argument that pitchers HAVE to throw so hard that they tire quickly or blow their arms out to get hitters out is invalid.  I'll take the pitcher that knows how to get hitters out AND can throw high innings.

3) Eras are apples to oranges to a degree but there are also players than span eras and we often see what worked in one era will work in another.   The lowered mound was brought up, Lolich actually had better numbers AFTER the mound was lowered.  No one can tell me Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle wouldn't be great players today yet the bulk of their careers happened 60-70 years ago.

But you go ahead and take Skubal.  While he's on the IL Mickey will churning innings out.

 

 

Plus Mickey made better donuts.

I brought up Wilbur Wood because you used WAR as part of your argument. Wood's WAR was better than any current pitcher when he was starting close to 50 games a year. Time will tell about the IL. The last year Lolich was a top tier starter was his age 31 season. Time will tell how Skubal shakes out. 

[RatkoVarda]

Thumbs up: Harris got a lot more than he would have from the comp pick in '27, who you would hope would become Zyhir by 2030. Add in Ryan and a flyer, that's a win.

The amount of young positional on this team in 12 months from now will be nuts: Dingler, Liranzo, Briceno, Valencia, Tork, Lee, Anderson, McGonigle, Keith, Greene, Clark, and maybe Hope all between 22-28.

I know some guys are getting released/traded/flamed out, but not impossible to get something from Jung, Sweeney, Meadows, Callahan, Cruz, Peck, Workman, Graham, Malgeri, Wenceel.

Thumbs down: Sirota, as a RH, who is closer to the bigs, would have been better choice IMO, but Sirota and Hope are at same level and Hope is 1.5 years younger. Ryan of course is giving everyone F Perez vibes.

[casimir]

36 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

For a decade now, back to 2017, River Ryan has pitched as many as 60 innings one time. 2023 he pitched 104 innings. Second highest is 52. To think he pops into the starting rotation is dreaming large. I think back end of bullpen is more realistic

There currently are openings in the Detroit back end of bullpen.

Edited August 2 by casimir

[1984Echoes]

18 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

For a decade now, back to 2017, River Ryan has pitched as many as 60 innings one time. 2023 he pitched 104 innings. Second highest is 52. To think he pops into the starting rotation is dreaming large. I think back end of bullpen is more realistic

I want him to start out in the bullpen and the Tigers/ Fetter can just take it from there.

If they turn him into a starter. great.

If he turns into a nasty shutdown reliever... fine, we need that too.

I know starters are more valuable... but I'm tired of the Todd Jones/ Kenley Jansen closer factory we seem to always have. I'm ready to turn a few failed starters into nasty shutdown relievers and therefore I won't shed any tears if that's where Ryan ends up at...

I would leave as a starter for 2027: Melton/ Montero/ Valdez/ Jobe. And fill out the rest of the rotation (to at least 7/8 starters... a few in AAA) from there.

I expect Jake Miller and Andrew Sears will be in AAA next year... that's part of our rotation depth guys...

[NorthWoods]

5 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

I brought up Wilbur Wood because you used WAR as part of your argument. Wood's WAR was better than any current pitcher when he was starting close to 50 games a year. Time will tell about the IL. The last year Lolich was a top tier starter was his age 31 season. Time will tell how Skubal shakes out. 

Accepting your definition of "top tier" - from age 32-35 4 yrs, 146GS, 68CG, 1050IP, ERA+ 106, 91, 105, 101 would still be a pretty high value pitcher but definitely a lower tier from his peak.  

In his 7th year Skubal is at 863IP........

[papalawrence]

5 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Thumbs up: Harris got a lot more than he would have from the comp pick in '27, who you would hope would become Zyhir by 2030. Add in Ryan and a flyer, that's a win.

The amount of young positional on this team in 12 months from now will be nuts: Dingler, Liranzo, Briceno, Valencia, Tork, Lee, Anderson, McGonigle, Keith, Greene, Clark, and maybe Hope all between 22-28.

I know some guys are getting released/traded/flamed out, but not impossible to get something from Jung, Sweeney, Meadows, Callahan, Cruz, Peck, Workman, Graham, Malgeri, Wenceel.

Thumbs down: Sirota, as a RH, who is closer to the bigs, would have been better choice IMO, but Sirota and Hope are at same level and Hope is 1.5 years younger. Ryan of course is giving everyone F Perez vibes.

Seeing all those young guys listed there does spark more hope. Prior to Greene, how many decent position player prospects did Detroit develop? Castellanos. Higgy. Fryman. Inge. Only a handful back to the late 70s early 80s

[casimir]

Wilbur Wood wasn’t a SP until his age 29 season.  Just eyeballing it, he had around 400 games and 600 Innings pitched starting with his MLB debut at age 19.  It’s kind of silly to think of that kind of career trajectory given how modern day bullpens are made of failed starters (or so the story goes).

I bet a lot of folks don’t realize Jack Morris’s first full season in MLB was out of the bullpen after a handful of starts the year before.  Pedro Martinez and Nolan Ryan are a couple of HOFs that started their MLB careers with some decent time out of the bullpen.