A Break. A Breather. A Respite, if you will. Where's your head at?

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Comes back from what?  He got hot for a few weeks three years ago.  He's a still a prospect, but I don't see him as anything special at this point.  

In a lost season such as this one, it'd be nice to see what he can provide. One imagines he would have had a chance before his last injury.

I'm not saying he's Clayton Kershaw lol

[1984Echoes]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

In a lost season such as this one, it'd be nice to see what he can provide. One imagines he would have had a chance before his last injury.

I'm not saying he's Clayton Kershaw lol

I'd be perfectly fine if Wentz could make it to the back end of our rotation...

[SoCalTiger]

9 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Are they?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I look forward to the day when he's one of the worst hitters in the lineup. They aren't there yet, which says more about the Tigers than it does about Miggy at this point. And unfortunately, they aren't likely to be there by the end of next year.

Statistically and Historically I agree with you That Miggy still belongs but my point is 500 abs are going to the past and not to the future and we need to accelerate getting or "testing" players that might help us post 2023. Playing Miggy full time next year hinders that. 

Plus the bottom could drop out on him at any moment or off season. Look I really like Miggy he's OUR Hall of Famer and I enjoy him but I think the development of the product could use the AB's for younger players. 

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, sabretooth said:

You are right, thats about the only way through this mess. 

Honestly, though, I think it takes more than keeping the owner out of the way.  Even a great GM needs the owner to be engaged enough so that the owner will be willing to put heavy resources behind good players and ideas whenever its needed and beneficial, even and especially early on in the new GMs tenure.

The most rock headed thing about Chris and AAs plan, other than the tanking itself, is that the plan seems to have been utterly and mercilessly sequential. 

FIRST you get rid of all of your good players.  Whoops, we recieved absolutely NOTHING of lasting value in return...Candy being the closest thing.

SECOND, you tank for years.  Success! 

After a couple of years of that....

THIRD you build a sustainable farm system with up to date technology (years after everyone else of course).  Utterly failed at this, unfortunately.

FOURTH, you hire a proven manager, provided hes damaged goods and you can get him cheap.  Success!

FIFTH, you spend a little bit and see if that makes things a little better.  Success in 2021!

SIXTH, if that improves things you spend more, but still keep the payroll well below average.  FAIL in 2022.

FOLLOW THE PLAN.  If you paint all of the designated spaces in the right sequence, you will complete a lovely velvet Elvis, suitable for your collection.  They may yet succeed at this.

Contrast Chris and AAs paint by numbers failure, which took forever to unfold with what Theo did in Chicago.

Contrary to some reports, Theo pushed all of the buttons (Draft, Develop, Trade, FAs) more or less at the same time after a brief 2 season retooling.  Theo did not lead them through a long tanking for picks process.

If Chris had the brains and the guts to hire Theo, that would be amazing.  His dad would have considered it, and might have done it too in the same situation.  I cant imagine that with Chris.

The Velvet Elvis Plan. Nice analogy!

I think the kid might spend to support the franchise, which would mean he is incented to engage. He was willing to throw a decent chunk of money at those they thought would be key players. It's just that the jury is still out on Baez, but the rest of them are clunkers, except Chafin. That's a 1 in 4 success rate on key acquisitions from outside this winter. Ya need better than a 25% hit rate on that kind of thing if ya aim to win.

But if the kid were to get the right GM in, one who knows how to lead an organization that's top of the class in talent evaluation, I would assume the money would be better spent, and with a better return, the kid might be talked into spending more if needed to win, or more exactly, it would yield better than breakeven on ROI. I'm not 100% on that opinion, but there's at least a puncher's chance he could be

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

Statistically and Historically I agree with you That Miggy still belongs but my point is 500 abs are going to the past and not to the future and we need to accelerate getting or "testing" players that might help us post 2023. Playing Miggy full time next year hinders that. 

Plus the bottom could drop out on him at any moment or off season. Look I really like Miggy he's OUR Hall of Famer and I enjoy him but I think the development of the product could use the AB's for younger players. 

I want Miggy "retired". Before next season starts.

I'm with you. 

It's time to move on.

Great career, and love all that he's done with, and for, the Tigers.

But it's time to move on and search for the next generation.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

Would you retire if all you had to do was be there and you get a check for $185,185.19 each day you show up for work? And thats only 162 days next year...... (30 mil/162 days). I would be out there on my death bed.....

[1984Echoes]

Just now, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Would you retire if all you had to do was be there and you get a check for $185,185.19 each day you show up for work? And thats only 162 days next year...... (30 mil/162 days). I would be out there on my death bed.....

The only thing that's required is for the Tigers to say: "Here Miggy, you're retired and here's your $40 million check,"

That's it.

DO it Chris/ Al.

DO it!!!

[buddha]

miggy is the only interesting thing on this team.  i dont them to get rid of him.

for what?  who is going to replace him?

[AlaskanTigersFan]

I lost all respect for Miggy when he hit his wife...... He can go at any time. 

[1984Echoes]

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

miggy is the only interesting thing on this team...

Not anymore. He's reached his milestone goals/ and Riley Greene & Tarik Skubal are on this team.

So absolutely, not any more.

 

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

... for what?  who is going to replace him?

 

I don't care who replaces him.

It's time to look to the future. I want him retired after this season.

[RandyMarsh]

If Meadows comes back from whatever ailment he has at this particular time and is indeed healthy by next season Miggy may be blocking him but aside from that he isn't blocking anybody of note so I don't really care. 

If we had a bunch of promising bats in the minors that could get some reps with the open DH that would be another reason to want him gone but again that isn't the case.

The only bat in the minors that I'm half way interested in seeing that figures to be ready by the start of next season is Carpenter but with Grossman gone along with maybe Willi there should be enough ABs to go around in the OF to give him regular at bats. 

This isn't to say that I'm opposed to getting rid of Miggy just that I'm completely apathetic to the whole thing, if he leaves great if he stays that's fine with me too.

[Motor City Sonics]

Saw Yahoo Sports  Teams Overachievers and Underachievers

Over                            
Yankees - Yeah, way over
Orioles -  If they weren't in that division, they'd be thinking playoffs
Mariners - 14 in a row will do that
Mets - I find this strange, We expected them to be really good
Twins - Yo Yo Team.  Up, Down, Up, Down...........next year they'll stink again. 

 

Under                      
Angels - Not to me, I knew they'd suck.  they always suck
Reds - Under?  They've been tanking, how are they under? 
White Sox - Yeah, I get this.  Jerry, stop hiring buddies to manage the team
Royals - I don't know anyone that expect anything from them
Nationals - They keep getting rid of good players, team should be folded 

 

So the Tigers don't make the Under list and it shows how full of shit we all were with our expectations.  They weren't realistic and we're all blinded by loyalty to our favorite team, which is run by a jackass owner and clueless GM.      -OR-.   The Tigers just don't matter nationally, which is worse. 

 

I think Juan Soto is headed to the Dodgers.   They have all the money in the world to spend AND they have a boatload of prospects every year.   Can we hire their Assistant GM please?   Jeffrey Kingston or Alex Slater or maybe their Scouting Director David Finley?  

Edited July 21, 2022 by Motor City Sonics

[RandyMarsh]

Our expectations were skewed based off of how we finished the lay 5 months of the season and the fact we used that as our true talent baseline....atleast the people that were thinking mid to upper 80s wins. 

The mindset was that we were a .500 team for nearly 5 months so you add Baez, Tork,Greene, Erod to that along with a better Baddoo, Skubal, Mize and Manning and you can easily expect 10 more wins.

The problem was that we were actually more of a 70 win team last year than .500 so even if all those things happened we'd probably be closer to low 80s at best and if those things didn't happen we would be about a 70 win team. 

Of course nobody could have foreseen the terribleness of all things we were counting on which is why we're even worse off then we even imagined under the worst case scenarios.

Edited July 21, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

Would you retire if all you had to do was be there and you get a check for $185,185.19 each day you show up for work? And thats only 162 days next year...... (30 mil/162 days). I would be out there on my death bed.....

It's not accurate to only say 162 days.  They work seven days a week and there is also Spring Training and training during the off-season.  It's a lot of money though.  

[sabretooth]

8 hours ago, 1984Echoes said:

It's time to look to the future. I want him retired after this season.

Yeah, we disagree on some things but on this we are 100% in agreement.  I root for him when he's playing because I am a Tiger fan, but his time is past here. 

I am not interested in seeing someone at DH everyday whose only skill is hitting soft singles to right field at a somewhat better than average clip, but not enough to make up for his utter lack of skills at everything else.

I am not saying that he's holding another DH back, but we have got to move on.

[mtutiger]

Miguel isn't going anywhere, for better or worse. They aren't going to unceremoniously cut arguably the greatest Tiger player in modern history before his final swan song year.

But if the team wants to reduce his playing time and / or move him down the order, it is incumbent upon them to improve this lineup or create a pretense by which to do it.

That pretense does not exist yet, which says a lot more about the Tigers than it does about Miguel at this point in his career.

Edited July 21, 2022 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Yeah, we disagree on some things but on this we are 100% in agreement.  I root for him when he's playing because I am a Tiger fan, but his time is past here. 

I am not interested in seeing someone at DH everyday whose only skill is hitting soft singles to right field at a somewhat better than average clip, but not enough to make up for his utter lack of skills at everything else.

I am not saying that he's holding another DH back, but we have got to move on.

Not a chance. Daddy paid for Miggy through 2023, and Miggy through 2023 is what we’re gonna get.

[mtutiger]

At a minimum, if you want to lessen Miggy's role, getting contributions from Akil Baddoo and Austin Meadows (who reportedly could be back in August) seems like the best bet. Because at that point, especially if they looked to add an outfielder in the offseason, you could see a need for Meadows more at DH.

But this roster is a long ways away from that at this point.

[buddha]

miggy isnt blocking anyone next year.  let him dh and get some more hits.

[oblong]

Miggy was already "downgraded" to fifth in the lineup and I suspect they were prepared to go lower but alas, he's been one of our better hitters this year.

 

[HeyAbbott]

12 minutes ago, buddha said:

miggy isnt blocking anyone next year.  let him dh and get some more hits.

He can smile, wave his hat at the crowd, and give some of the fans a thrill at seeing him. I don't care what happens to him. He is not blocking anyone and one can always get a sub replacement DH.

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, oblong said:

Miggy was already "downgraded" to fifth in the lineup and I suspect they were prepared to go lower but alas, he's been one of our better hitters this year.

 

Framed in a different way, maybe the goal for the next year and a half for this team should be to earn the right to push him further down the lineup.

I get it, Miggy isn't the player he used to be and that's why people want to move on. But the talent in terms of position players on this roster isn't good enough to justify moving on from him - it just isn't. 

[sabretooth]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

Not a chance. Daddy paid for Miggy through 2023, and Miggy through 2023 is what we’re gonna get.

I know, but it still sucks IMO.

[sabretooth]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Miguel isn't going anywhere, for better or worse. They aren't going to unceremoniously cut arguably the greatest Tiger player in modern history before his final swan song year.

But if the team wants to reduce his playing time and / or move him down the order, it is incumbent upon them to improve this lineup or create a pretense by which to do it.

That pretense does not exist yet, which says a lot more about the Tigers than it does about Miguel at this point in his career.

To be fair, I am suggesting that they give him his $$$ and ask him to be a special advisor or something while he goes and does whatever he does when he's not playing baseball.

I know that's not going to happen.  It would be a great sign that this team is expecting better than soft line drive singles to right field from their DH every 3rd at bat.

[sabretooth]

3 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Our expectations were skewed based off of how we finished the lay 5 months of the season and the fact we used that as our true talent baseline....atleast the people that were thinking mid to upper 80s wins. 

The mindset was that we were a .500 team for nearly 5 months so you add Baez, Tork,Greene, Erod to that along with a better Baddoo, Skubal, Mize and Manning and you can easily expect 10 more wins.

The problem was that we were actually more of a 70 win team last year than .500 so even if all those things happened we'd probably be closer to low 80s at best and if those things didn't happen we would be about a 70 win team. 

Of course nobody could have foreseen the terribleness of all things we were counting on which is why we're even worse off then we even imagined under the worst case scenarios.

My expectations were that they would win around 80 games, based on the projections of professional projection systems, and have a chance to pick up some guys mid-season and maybe win 85 games if they were lucky.  That wasn't based on any of the starry-eyed stuff that you are indicating above, but was based on available professional projection data.