General Tsao's Cold War

[CMRivdogs]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would bet there is periodic malfeasance with politicians pressuring small local businesses for favors, payoffs, etc. here in America, but I wouldn’t bet that it is endemic to anywhere near the degree it is in many other countries. But I also wouldn’t bet on the state of affairs remaining exactly the same in future America, either. As with everything else, it depends who ends up running things.

I used to see it the other way working small market radio where businesses influenced what news stories to talk about or even music we played. Keep in mind you also get crossover since many of the local officials also owned businesses who advertised.

In that case, which came first, the chicken or the egg. No laws were passed forbidding the play of Whitney Houston, but if the advertiser, vice mayor objected, we lost revenue.

[romad1]

4 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

I used to see it the other way working small market radio where businesses influenced what news stories to talk about or even music we played. Keep in mind you also get crossover since many of the local officials also owned businesses who advertised.

In that case, which came first, the chicken or the egg. No laws were passed forbidding the play of Whitney Houston, but if the advertiser, vice mayor objected, we lost revenue.

Would that more people objected. 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

OK no laws were broken but so called "christian" politicians did have an impact on the bottom line on the sale of a certain brand of beer. TBH I suppose you could say the same about the other side on businesses like Chick Fil A or Hobby Lobby (which has reportedly cut way back on their Hanukkah related crafts)

Consumer power. It really was a grass roots movement in this situation. They moved on from that that marketing person and have tried to win back Billy Bob's brand loyalty.

That was a business decision by AB that they rolled the dice and lost. Sometimes being woke is not for your particular market brand. Still not sure how bad marketing falls into gov't over reach.

[Biff Mayhem]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Actually... does anyone here actually have travel experience to China?   I would think that Detroit-oriented group like this one would given all the business interconnectedness. 

I'd be curious that perspective. 

I do. I've been 6 or 7 times and have one on the agenda next summer. Before Covid, my wife and kids would go every year. I can only speak to my experiences but ask away....

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, Biff Mayhem said:

I do. I've been 6 or 7 times and have one on the agenda next summer. Before Covid, my wife and kids would go every year. I can only speak to my experiences but ask away....

Have you been since COVID yet? 

I'd be interested in any delta in government or societal behaviors from pre-Covid to post-Covid. 

e.g., are they more inward looking, do they paint the outside as all a bunch of devil wreckers?  Degree to which that may have amped up or not. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by romad1

[Biff Mayhem]

33 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Have you been since COVID yet? 

I'd be interested in any delta in government or societal behaviors from pre-Covid to post-Covid. 

e.g., are they more inward looking, do they paint the outside as all a bunch of devil wreckers?  Degree to which that may have amped up or not. 

I haven't been post Covid but we are going next summer.

There is a definite indoctrination (what I refer to as Glorious China) into the greatness of China and every other country is only out to get them.

Lots and lots of hatred toward Japan to this day and they view all other Asian countries as inferior and view the entire cultures of them (especially the Koreans) as aped off China.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, Biff Mayhem said:

I haven't been post Covid but we are going next summer.

There is a definite indoctrination (what I refer to as Glorious China) into the greatness of China and every other country is only out to get them.

Lots and lots of hatred toward Japan to this day and they view all other Asian countries as inferior and view the entire cultures of them (especially the Koreans) as aped off China.

Can totally buy the Japan hatred.   Japan came by the hatred through a lot of evil deeds.   Japan becoming a foreign policy backstop against China in the South China Sea is welcome but not without having to carefully navigate this negative past.  

Weird thing about Taiwan is that the US joint chiefs during WWII argued that invading Formosa would put them in a country that Japan had successfully colonized, and the population would be more hostile than the Philippine population which was perceived to be still warm toward the United States -- as it turned out to be.   Now, you would be hard pressed to see any semblance of Japan in Formosa/Taiwan after 7 decades of KMT rule. 

[Biff Mayhem]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Weird thing about Taiwan is that the US joint chiefs during WWII argued that invading Formosa would put them in a country that Japan had successfully colonized, and the population would be more hostile than the Philippine population which was perceived to be still warm toward the United States -- as it turned out to be.   Now, you would be hard pressed to see any semblance of Japan in Formosa/Taiwan after 7 decades of KMT rule. 

What I understand from the indoctrination, Taiwan is and has been run by mafia gangsters for decades. It might be true but given the shade thrown around to the rest of Asia, I take it with a grain of salt.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, Biff Mayhem said:

Taiwan is and has been run by mafia gangsters for decades.

That started out being true, but I think most observers agree that politics and governance in Taiwan has evolved a long way since 1945. Certainly a lot further toward a modern open society than the mainland has in the same period!

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

That started out being true, but I think most observers agree that politics and governance in Taiwan has evolved a long way since 1945. Certainly a lot further toward a modern open society than the mainland has in the same period!

Every country that has money, capitalist countries included, will have gangsters hunting after that money.

I mean, it's not as if the U.S. NEVER had mafioso or gangsters...!

[romad1]

Huge, probably watershed event today in San Francisco.   It will be very interesting what each leader leads with in discussion.   If Biden starts with human rights you know this thing is off to a bad start.  If Xi starts with Taiwan likewise. 

Hopefully, they are both tracking towards normalization of relations and what were known in the Cold War as confidence-building measures. 

[chasfh]

27 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Huge, probably watershed event today in San Francisco.   It will be very interesting what each leader leads with in discussion.   If Biden starts with human rights you know this thing is off to a bad start.  If Xi starts with Taiwan likewise. 

Hopefully, they are both tracking towards normalization of relations and what were known in the Cold War as confidence-building measures. 

Then Trump can accuse Biden of selling off the country and American jobs to CHEYE-na and campraise off it.

[smr-nj]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

Huge, probably watershed event today in San Francisco.   It will be very interesting what each leader leads with in discussion.   If Biden starts with human rights you know this thing is off to a bad start.  If Xi starts with Taiwan likewise. 

Hopefully, they are both tracking towards normalization of relations and what were known in the Cold War as confidence-building measures. 

I want Biden to start with - fentanyl.  China is the source, and we need to let Xi know we’re not going to accept his country’s blatant attempt to kill as many Americans (& every other citizen of the world) as possible.

They are the source, and we need to, in the strongest possible language, tell them they need to rein it in.

edit to add: I don’t care if this discussion that is out of the public purview, I just wanna make sure, or, I would like to think that this will be a major topic because it’s very serious.

[romad1]

Morning Joe started off with the first block all about the meeting.

[romad1]

They appear to have addressed Fenton-ill.  They also address the fact that Panda Express really should reduce the amount of cabbage in their lo-mein.  I think they also said that their military should be more confident. 

[romad1]

4 minutes ago, romad1 said:

They appear to have addressed Fenton-ill.  They also address the fact that Panda Express really should reduce the amount of cabbage in their lo-mein.  I think they also said that their military should be more confident. 

In reality it was a very necessary meeting.  I'm hopeful that it was Xi coming to see what could be done to lift the political anvil holding down development of the Belt and Road initiative.  Talking to a very cynical colleague who says we got nothing.   I think we have no idea.  The one thing we got was Reykjavik which despite a lot of concern trolling from the Right wingers was incredibly important.  

[romad1]

BTW, Panda Express appears to be very pro-Taiwan from what I've observed.  Also, they pulled out of Russia after the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. 

edit: found this

Panda Express: The Taiwan Roots of America's No.1 Asian Fast-Food Chain - TaiwanPlus

Edited November 16, 2023 by romad1

[romad1]

Oh, interesting

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/12/01/ev-automakers-rules-china/71767883007/

[Jim Cowan]

28 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Oh, interesting  

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/12/01/ev-automakers-rules-china/71767883007/

Rats, subscribers only.  Got a 20 word summary?

[romad1]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Rats, subscribers only.  Got a 20 word summary?

The US Government is coming up some actual guidelines for dealing with Chinese state owned enterprises with ties to the People’s Liberation Army or the CCP’ security services wrt EV development and joint projects in the US auto industry.  Some will be blocked.  My cynical side thinks these are probably a set of loopholes unless the people judging what is an SOE actually are guided by the realities on the ground.  

[Jim Cowan]

4 minutes ago, romad1 said:

The US Government is coming up some actual guidelines for dealing with Chinese state owned enterprises with ties to the People’s Liberation Army or the CCP’ security services wrt EV development and joint projects in the US auto industry.  Some will be blocked.  My cynical side thinks these are probably a set of loopholes unless the people judging what is an SOE actually are guided by the realities on the ground.  

I guess some attempts need to be made.  But of course you can't share anything valuable with them, they will just steal it.

My favourite TV expose about Chinese theft of intellectual property was about knockoff golf clubs, specifically drivers.  There was Titleist rep there, he was handed 2 drivers...one was legit, and one was a Chinese knockoff.  From their exterior appearance, he did not know which was the real one.  Then the robot took a few swings with each of them, and the results were hilarious, the knockoff was 30 yards shorter and wildly inaccurate.  Then they sawed both of the heads in half and the knockoff had drips in it like runny icing on a cake. 

I smiled contentedly at that, with schadenfreude, because I worked with a guy at the parent company in Pittsburgh who was a real asshole and a lousy golfer, and every year he bought a new driver and got a really great discount price on it!  He probably had 15 Chinese drivers in his garage.

[romad1]

The real issue as far as the well-being of the NATO alliance and our allies in the Western Pacific is that China is developing advanced technology that surpasses our own and using the tried and true Soviet model of just stealing it or just buying to do so.  They are in a 360 degree 24/7 technology vacuuming mode.  So, why give them any breaks by giving them a base in Michigan to develop their knowledge?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

The real issue as far as the well-being of the NATO alliance and our allies in the Western Pacific is that China is developing advanced technology that surpasses our own and using the tried and true Soviet model of just stealing it or just buying to do so.  They are in a 360 degree 24/7 technology vacuuming mode.  So, why give them any breaks by giving them a base in Michigan to develop their knowledge?

What does a Chinese LiFePO4 battery plant allow them to steal from us when they are miles ahead of us in that tech? Seems the the bigger potential for knowledge transfer is the other way.

[romad1]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

What does a Chinese LiFePO4 battery plant allow them to steal from us when they are miles ahead of us in that tech? Seems the the bigger potential for knowledge transfer is the other way.

Starting to see a lot more of this around the World.  Canada's war with Huawei being a good example. 

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, romad1 said:

Starting to see a lot more of this around the World.  Canada's war with Huawei being a good example. 

It it could be arranged, it might actually be sorta fun to have a crack at expropriating some tech from China in an area where they are a world leader. Having them experience being the aggrieved party in some tech theft might be just the thing to help bring around their thinking....