romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: about time Yeah, the next thing will be finding Erdogan's price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Orban would happily incorporate them into his Hungarian empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, romad1 said: Yeah, the next thing will be finding Erdogan's price. Erdogan already said he is accepting of Finland; and Sweden is moving as fast as they can to meet Erdogan's demands. Which they've agreed to do. Namely, pushing parties related to the PKK (I don't know if that's real or just in Erdogan's mind that they are but...) Sweden has already agreed to stop supporting them. I think both countries have already agreed to remove military equipment restrictions they had placed on Turkey... Edited November 25, 2022 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 33 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said: Orban would happily incorporate them into his Hungarian empire. This Nordic NATO expansion is such a huge deal. Imagine Sweden and Finland deciding that their profitable neutrality was no longer in their interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Is it late in St Petersburg, Screwy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, romad1 said: This Nordic NATO expansion is such a huge deal.... But doesn't that mean Russia is winning the war? Oh... wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: But doesn't that mean Russia is winning the war? Oh... wait... Its shocking he feels the way he does but, It feels cheap to argue with someone on such an amoral side of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Screwball said: How's Ukraines electric grid doing by the way? Hard to win a war when you don't have an electrical grid that works. OTOH, it's hard to win a war when your stated objectives are to decapitate the government and subdue the enemy and fail to do neither, show an inability to hold any sort of gains for any length of time, and proceed to have your military decimated, sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths. And now, evident in the clip shared this morning of Pashinyan, when your collective security partners appear to no longer feel you are a reliable partner. That doesn't look like winning to me. Saying the contrary over and over again doesn't really change it. Edited November 25, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, mtutiger said: OTOH, it's hard to win a war when your stated objectives are to decapitate the government and subdue the enemy and fail to do neither, show an inability to hold any sort of gains for any length of time, and proceed to have your military decimated, sending 100,000+ soldiers to their deaths. And now, evident in the clip shared this morning of Pashinyan, when your collective security partners appear to no longer feel you are a reliable partner. That doesn't look like winning to me. Saying the contrary over and over again doesn't really change it. I'm very interested to see the RW media try to push such an unpopular position that Russia is somehow the aggrieved party. I know there are some in those circles who think Putin is in the right because he rejects all the multi-culturalism and globalism in favor of Russian chauvinism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, romad1 said: Its shocking he feels the way he does but, It feels cheap to argue with someone on such an amoral side of the issue. It's easy to forget as time goes by, but it's worth remembering the expectation-setting that occurred before February 24: that Russia would roll over the Ukrainian government, that much of the country would accept it, and that it would be over in a matter of weeks. And that's not just the western media - that is what the Russian government themselves (both Putin and Russian state media) projected. None of that has happened. And yet that does not stop people from saying that Russia is winning this war because reasons. It's bizarre. Edited November 25, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 hours ago, mtutiger said: It's easy to forget as time goes by, but it's worth remembering the expectation-setting that occurred before February 24: that Russia would roll over the Ukrainian government, that much of the country would accept it, and that it would be over in a matter of weeks. And that's not just the western media - that is what the Russian government themselves (both Putin and Russian state media) projected. None of that has happened. And yet that does not stop people from saying that Russia is winning this war because reasons. It's bizarre. Another explanation: The Trump family has its fans and some of them are cheering for the vile Putin regime because the Trump family owe their “solvency” to Vladdie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screwball Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Wow, a little bit of truth bomb from the typical mouth organ Politico. Dumped on Thanksgiving eve no less. Europe accuses US of profiting from war NO! Tell us is ain't so. Maybe these dumbasses are as bad with history as so many others. Back in 2014 when our busy little CIA and neo-con war criminals had their noses buried in the cesspool of corruption and money laundering operation known as Ukraine, someone fucked up. Neo-con war monger Victoria Nuland (currently Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs, married to Robert Kagan, co-founder of the PNAC) accidentally told the truth. "Fuck the EU" she exclaimed. Why, yes, it is all plain now Vicky baby. Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU - from 2014 But struggling Americans and Europeans get to pay the price. Insanity by insane people. May you rot in hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 Thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/24/2022 at 11:29 PM, mtutiger said: OTOH, it's hard to win a war when your stated objectives are to decapitate the government and subdue the enemy and fail to do neither, show an inability to hold any sort of gains for any length of time, and proceed to have your military decimated, sending thousands of soldiers to their deaths. And now, evident in the clip shared this morning of Pashinyan, when your collective security partners appear to no longer feel you are a reliable partner. That doesn't look like winning to me. Saying the contrary over and over again doesn't really change it. Let's check the scorecard: Russia - stated objective to replace the Kyiv government: FAILED. Russia - stated belief to swiftly defeat Ukraine: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to take control of the entire Donbas: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to absorb 4 Ukrainian oblasts (provinces) in their entirety: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to dominate the Black Sea: FAILED. (Lost their FLAGSHIP the Moskva) Russia - International reputation after their incessant occurrences of rape, torture, genocide, destruction of maternity hospitals and the bombing of newborns, and other infants, pregnant mothers, churches, museums, apartments, and hospitals and the kidnapping of a million Ukrainian children and other citizens: FAILURE. Russia - stated objective to push back against NATO: FAILED. (Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral and will shortly join NATO, and Ukraine is on the verge of obtaining a "roadmap" to join NATO... EXACTLY what Russia did NOT want) Russia - Putin's reputation: COMPLETE and TOTAL ABJECT FAILURE. Russia - China's "knows no limit" support of Russia: FAILURE (zero military or economic assistance). Russia - Military: FAILURE. Russia - military logistics: FAILURE. Russia - soldiers/ officers military competency reputation: FAILURE. Russia - reputation within it's own version of NATO (CSTO): FAILURE. (Kazakhstan - looking towards China and distancing itself from Russia in every possible way, the other "stans" - also looking towards China, Armenia - enraged at the lack of support against Azerbaijan's attacks against them) Russia - desire to weaken NATO. FAILURE. (NATO is re-arming itself, defeating Russia on the battlefield (NATO weaponry, Ukrainian soldiers), proving their weapons systems are superior, no longer taking Russia as a benign competitor but as an active danger/ threat against all of Europe, swiftly reducing dependence on Russian arms supplies (all of Eastern Europe...) since those systems are being sent to Ukraine and being replaced with Western weaponry and therefore, getting ALL NATO countries swiftly onto the same platforms, interoperability, etc...). Russian economy - damaged this year, next year, and for at least the next 10 years by Putin's stupidity. FAILURE. Russia's population - declining. And now worsened due to the war, and millions of young Russian men, and anyone with money, fleeing the country. This affects both GDP/ economy (with the brain and capital drain) and adds to their declining population problem. 120 million and counting DOWN due to the rampant fascism/ corruption/ war stupidity in their country. FAILURE. Russia versus Ukraine - the propaganda war: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - Russia's ability to militarily win AND maintain control over Ukrainian territory: UKRAINE WINS 3 TIMES (Kiev, Kharkiv, Kherson). Russia versus Ukraine - Ukraine turns west (EU, potentially NATO) versus Russia forces Ukraine to fold back under Russian political control: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - battlefield reputation: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - current inventory of weaponry and the supply logistics to conduct war: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - Moral compass or international moral reputation/ support: UKRAINE WINS. I think I have a few more but it's late and I'm getting tired... (of all this WINNING...) Good night, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 11 hours ago, romad1 said: Thread They are just a bunch of poor kids, truly. They are exhausted, starving, and freezing. It is so very sad that their lives are being thrown away on one man's ego trip. And yet if they were to get a hot meal, a hot shower and a good night's sleep in a warm, dry, comfortable bed, and then were told to occupy a village tomorrow, they would do so with gusto, steal everything that might have any value at all without being instructed to do so, torture the men who might be intelligence-gatherers, and rape the women who are over 12 and under 70. It would all just come naturally to them. The Russian psyche, it's hard to get an understanding of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 May these folks rot in hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 6 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: They are just a bunch of poor kids, truly. They are exhausted, starving, and freezing. It is so very sad that their lives are being thrown away on one man's ego trip. And yet if they were to get a hot meal, a hot shower and a good night's sleep in a warm, dry, comfortable bed, and then were told to occupy a village tomorrow, they would do so with gusto, steal everything that might have any value at all without being instructed to do so, torture the men who might be intelligence-gatherers, and rape the women who are over 12 and under 70. It would all just come naturally to them. The Russian psyche, it's hard to get an understanding of. Well, a lot of people are invested heavily in Russia so according to some on this board its best if you just let those kids die or do all that rape to help their portfolios. The wishes of the Ukrainian people are not of consequence. Also, the US should either have stayed in Afghanistan forever or never been there depending on what hurts the political opponents of the Russian leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Saw some cold muddy months in Afgahnistan, relatable. Harden soldiers right here and winter just begining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 So, this shows you the criminals who are running the GOP for what they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 1 hour ago, romad1 said: So, this shows you the criminals who are running the GOP for what they are. What a jackass. Typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 On 11/26/2022 at 1:06 AM, 1984Echoes said: Let's check the scorecard: Russia - stated objective to replace the Kyiv government: FAILED. Russia - stated belief to swiftly defeat Ukraine: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to take control of the entire Donbas: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to absorb 4 Ukrainian oblasts (provinces) in their entirety: FAILED. Russia - stated objective to dominate the Black Sea: FAILED. (Lost their FLAGSHIP the Moskva) Russia - International reputation after their incessant occurrences of rape, torture, genocide, destruction of maternity hospitals and the bombing of newborns, and other infants, pregnant mothers, churches, museums, apartments, and hospitals and the kidnapping of a million Ukrainian children and other citizens: FAILURE. Russia - stated objective to push back against NATO: FAILED. (Sweden and Finland are no longer neutral and will shortly join NATO, and Ukraine is on the verge of obtaining a "roadmap" to join NATO... EXACTLY what Russia did NOT want) Russia - Putin's reputation: COMPLETE and TOTAL ABJECT FAILURE. Russia - China's "knows no limit" support of Russia: FAILURE (zero military or economic assistance). Russia - Military: FAILURE. Russia - military logistics: FAILURE. Russia - soldiers/ officers military competency reputation: FAILURE. Russia - reputation within it's own version of NATO (CSTO): FAILURE. (Kazakhstan - looking towards China and distancing itself from Russia in every possible way, the other "stans" - also looking towards China, Armenia - enraged at the lack of support against Azerbaijan's attacks against them) Russia - desire to weaken NATO. FAILURE. (NATO is re-arming itself, defeating Russia on the battlefield (NATO weaponry, Ukrainian soldiers), proving their weapons systems are superior, no longer taking Russia as a benign competitor but as an active danger/ threat against all of Europe, swiftly reducing dependence on Russian arms supplies (all of Eastern Europe...) since those systems are being sent to Ukraine and being replaced with Western weaponry and therefore, getting ALL NATO countries swiftly onto the same platforms, interoperability, etc...). Russian economy - damaged this year, next year, and for at least the next 10 years by Putin's stupidity. FAILURE. Russia's population - declining. And now worsened due to the war, and millions of young Russian men, and anyone with money, fleeing the country. This affects both GDP/ economy (with the brain and capital drain) and adds to their declining population problem. 120 million and counting DOWN due to the rampant fascism/ corruption/ war stupidity in their country. FAILURE. Russia versus Ukraine - the propaganda war: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - Russia's ability to militarily win AND maintain control over Ukrainian territory: UKRAINE WINS 3 TIMES (Kiev, Kharkiv, Kherson). Russia versus Ukraine - Ukraine turns west (EU, potentially NATO) versus Russia forces Ukraine to fold back under Russian political control: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - battlefield reputation: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - current inventory of weaponry and the supply logistics to conduct war: UKRAINE WINS. Russia versus Ukraine - Moral compass or international moral reputation/ support: UKRAINE WINS. I think I have a few more but it's late and I'm getting tired... (of all this WINNING...) Good night, and good luck. I missed a couple obvious (and pretty big) ones that belong along with their other military failures: Russian - Generals and other officers: FAILURES. Russian - military leadership philosophy: FAILURE. Russian - military training: FAILURE. Russian - Conscription process: FAILURE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 11/26/2022 at 1:06 AM, 1984Echoes said: I think I have a few more but it's late and I'm getting tired... (of all this WINNING...) Good night, and good luck. Hate to interrupt your pep rally, but winning comes with a cost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War Also note the estimated hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that were forced to relocate to Russia and are never coming back. This winter will slow this war down. There hopefully be attempts to revert back to 2021 borders at a negotiation table to avoid more bloodshed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, ewsieg said: Hate to interrupt your pep rally, but winning comes with a cost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War Also note the estimated hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that were forced to relocate to Russia and are never coming back. This winter will slow this war down. There hopefully be attempts to revert back to 2021 borders at a negotiation table to avoid more bloodshed. I'm sure Russia is hoping Ukraine will negotiate away its territory based on how terrible its war crimes are. They are exposing their weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 28, 2022 Share Posted November 28, 2022 On 11/18/2022 at 11:36 PM, 1984Echoes said: I believe this is still a straight up intelligence failure. You can add all the nuances that you want to... And I don't disagree with anything you said. I would even boil it down to a very simple point: The Afghan military lacked the courage to fight for their country. Now, you could list the underlying causes as a lack of air support, lack of fallback safety zone (I disagree with that, if you want your country, you don't drop your weapons and retreat, you stand your ground. And most of Northeast Afghanistan is ethnic Tadjik... they shouldn't back down in their own territory...), it could be an overwhelming sense of fear of the Taliban, or of inevitability... But as for the intelligence point: It can NOT just be technical capabilities analysis. It HAS to include fighting spirit or heart or whatever you want to call it. If US Intelligence never takes the temperature of the population... then how the F can they make any judgement calls on the success or failure of any military opponent or ally? There's something wrong with them if they are overlooking that. And I think they did that with Ukraine as well. Before the war even started I said Ukraine would fight tooth and nail against the Russians. They weren't going to give up damn anything without throwing everything they had to stop them. I have a small inkling of the Ukrainian mindset due to... well, a few factors... I may have exaggerated stating that every man, woman, and child hated Russia and would fight against them but... not by a whole lot. But US Intelligence believes they would lose within a week? They need to start evaluating mindsets and emotional and intellectual competencies and national "spirit", if you will... Just my 2 cents... BINGO. https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-totally-misjudged-war-ukraine-094252667.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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