Week Ten: Detroit Lions (2-6) @ Chicago Bears (3-6)

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

How it started...

....how it's going.

Did I not say it was a prove it game? Campbell won and proved he should continue on as a coach. If we had lost that game there would rightfully be more heat turned up on Campbell for losing to the Bears.

[MichiganCardinal]

If we are on a similar path that Jim Schwartz took us (which I think is a similar rebuild in terms of sheer overhaul), we should be a playoff team next year. I don’t think that’s a surprising trajectory either, although the Giants and Jets have made that more frustrating to wait for.

2-14 to 6-10 to 10-6.

3-13-1 to 3-6(+)

[Motown Bombers]

But if Schwartz didn't win all those games at the end of the season, we could have drafted Patrick Peterson but also want to fire Schwartz for not winning.

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

But if Schwartz didn't win all those games at the end of the season, we could have drafted Patrick Peterson but also want to fire Schwartz for not winning.

I still like Schwartz as a coach. I think he would have succeeded if he was given a second shot somewhere. He was young, made some stupid decisions, and didn’t have a good grip on how to manage his team, but was a good coach.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, MichiganCardinal said:

I still like Schwartz as a coach. I think he would have succeeded if he was given a second shot somewhere. He was young, made some stupid decisions, and didn’t have a good grip on how to manage his team, but was a good coach.

I'm surprised Schwartz hasn't gotten a 2nd shot or at least some serious consideration. After leaving Detroit, he was a really good defense coordinator. Even though he didn't say it publicly, I got the vibe that he was a kneecaper like Campbell.

[MichiganCardinal]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm surprised Schwartz hasn't gotten a 2nd shot or at least some serious consideration. After leaving Detroit, he was a really good defense coordinator. Even though he didn't say it publicly, I got the vibe that he was a kneecaper like Campbell.

I think he was definitely a kneecapper. He was a bit more reckless about it though, his teams were terribly undisciplined.

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

You gotta admit, this has been a Lions season of a familiar type: run yourself completely out of playoff contention with a 1-7 record during the first half of the season, then win a few ... well, yes, meaningless, let's say that ... games to run yourself out of a top draft pick. It really is worst of all worlds, at least until you remember that no matter where the Lions pick, they have little idea how to draft or develop anyway.

In a normal year this would be pretty accurate.  This is a crazy year in the NFC and somehow 1-7 doesn’t put them completely out of playoff contention.    8-9 may or may not be good enough to qualify but it will definitely keep them in the hunt all the way to the last week.   There are lots of winnable games left on the docket.    The focus needs to be on wins and not draft picks.
 

[RandyMarsh]

Yeah I don't care about draft position cause I just don't love any of the top guys.  Bryce Young could be that guy but he has some question marks and the Texans are so bad it would be hard to finish worst than them even if we tried so he likely was a no go anyway. 

[Motown Bombers]

I think 8-9 definitely gets in and 7-10 is a real possibility.

[buddha]

33 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

What’s up with Swift? He didn’t have an injury designation on him, but if you watch his body of work from the Eagles game or Commanders game and compare it to yesterday or against the Packers, it’s night and day. He is far less explosive and agile. The 3rd and Goal run in particular was agitating - a starting running back should have been able to find the hole and punch that in, not get driven out of bounds.

Is it still the same lingering injury they just stopped bothering to disclose? Did he take an inexplicable step back? I don’t get it.

he's afraid to get hit?

he's been "injury prone" his entire career.  coming into the season all the talk was how he needed to be tougher and run between the tackles.  he did it against philly and washington (and was awesome) and then got hurt and hasnt done it since.  i dont think its a coincidence that they go with williams and reynolds/jackson as the main backs and only use swift on gadget pass plays.  he simply refuses to run hard and just falls down if someone is around him.  he runs scared.  

that play in the bears game where he caught the pass, ran around the middle of the field and then went backwards and fell down before he could get hit was swift in a nutshell.

[buddha]

33 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

If we are on a similar path that Jim Schwartz took us (which I think is a similar rebuild in terms of sheer overhaul), we should be a playoff team next year. I don’t think that’s a surprising trajectory either, although the Giants and Jets have made that more frustrating to wait for.

2-14 to 6-10 to 10-6.

3-13-1 to 3-6(+)

the difference is that schwartz had stafford at qb and next year's lions will likely have a rookie qb and a journeyman placeholder.

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

In a normal year this would be pretty accurate.  This is a crazy year in the NFC and somehow 1-7 doesn’t put them completely out of playoff contention.    8-9 may or may not be good enough to qualify but it will definitely keep them in the hunt all the way to the last week.   There are lots of winnable games left on the docket.    The focus needs to be on wins and not draft picks.
 

This is where I'm at right now.

I was conflicted during the game...

not knowing which direction to turn...

But I wanna see this team, Campbell, and all of the young kids on this team get better and better each week right now...

And I'll take as many wins as this team can get right now. This year.

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah I don't care about draft position cause I just don't love any of the top guys.  Bryce Young could be that guy but he has some question marks and the Texans are so bad it would be hard to finish worst than them even if we tried so he likely was a no go anyway. 

the lions arent going to get bryce young or cj stroud.  those guys are going to houston and carolina.

if the lions want one of those two they should root for the bears or jags to tank the rest of the season and then trade up with their 3 #1s the next two years.

other than that, look to take hendon hooker or will levis late in round one or early round two.

[buddha]

let us never be conflicted about beating the bears.  it is always good to beat the bears.

always.

[MichiganCardinal]

7 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yeah I don't care about draft position cause I just don't love any of the top guys.  Bryce Young could be that guy but he has some question marks and the Texans are so bad it would be hard to finish worst than them even if we tried so he likely was a no go anyway. 

I think it’s very possible that one of the mid-range QB prospects (Levis, Hooker, or Richardson) ends up being the best QB to come out of the class.

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

You gotta admit, this has been a Lions season of a familiar type: run yourself completely out of playoff contention with a 1-7 record during the first half of the season, then win a few ... well, yes, meaningless, let's say that ... games to run yourself out of a top draft pick. It really is worst of all worlds, at least until you remember that no matter where the Lions pick, they have little idea how to draft or develop anyway.

A couple of things here. It's 9 games into the season so the wins aren't meaningless when you're still within striking distance of a playoff spot and q young team winning games should never be considered meaningless. I know some disagree but winning culture is built by...winning.

I'd say the closest thing to a meaningless win is the final game against the Packers last season when the Packers were playing a lot of backups and that win dropped them from 1 to 2 in the draft order (Thanks Jags for making the win hurt a lot less) but these two wins are important in that the team is learning how to win the close games that they lost so many times in the last two years and... the season isn't over yet. They're not making the playoffs but at least it's nice to have "something" to play for as we near Thanksgiving. 

The other thing is that I'm not going to hold the previous regimes drafting record against this current regime so I don't subscribe to the theory that Holmes and co. will screw up drafting and developing just because previous Lions regimes did. We joke about "It's the Lions, they always screw up" and I've partook in these jokes but am also willing to give these guys a chance. Hell, it's been 65 years so the Lions are due for a winning regime, right? RIGHT?

Edited November 14, 2022 by NYLion

[MichiganCardinal]

The difference in draft position that comes from particular games being wins and losses is often overstated. The Lions got Sewell two years ago at #7, who was probably #2 on their board to Lawrence. The Lions got Hutch last year, who was either 1a or 1b… to make significant difference, you’re talking about multiple games, and when you’re talking about multiple games in the NFL, you’re talking about the difference between making the playoffs and not. No matter where you’re picking, you just have to hit on those picks and your team will improve.

[Motown Bombers]

The Rams pick right now is higher than the Lions. How about we just root for the Rams to lose?

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I mean great, he did was a coach is supposed to do, win games and not be talked about in a negative light in the end. He got his first road win ever as a Lions Head Coach. Were are in purgatory and simply have to ride this season out and wait until next year. We aren't good enough yet to beat anyone that's a good team and we aren't bad enough now to just stand around and cheer for the #1 overall pick. We are right back where we've frequently been as an organization and team, stuck in the middle, telling ourselves just wait until next year.

Stuck in the middle? The Lions drafted 7 and 2 the last two drafts, are in line for two top 10 picks possibly, top 15 at worst (unless the Rams go on some miracle run) and will have five top 75 picks in this draft. It's a clear direction, a clear rebuild. There is no wandering in purgatory, treadmill team thing here. This is a full scale rebuild. Whether it leads to better things down the road is another question but there's a clear plan here.

Edited November 14, 2022 by NYLion

[Hongbit]

27 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think it’s very possible that one of the mid-range QB prospects (Levis, Hooker, or Richardson) ends up being the best QB to come out of the class.

Personally, I like Penix Jr, DTR, and KJ Jefferson.  I think one of these 3 could be the next  Dak Prescott prospect, a guy who gets labeled with accuracy issues in college and sheds that as a pro and becomes a stud.   

[Motown Bombers]

I'm too immature for a QB named Penix.

[chasfh]

13 minutes ago, NYLion said:

A couple of things here. It's 9 games into the season so the wins aren't meaningless when you're still within striking distance of a playoff spot and q young team winning games should never be considered meaningless. I know some disagree but winning culture is built by...winning.

I'd say the closest thing to a meaningless win is the final game against the Packers last season when the Packers were playing a lot of backups and that win dropped them from 1 to 2 in the draft order (Thanks Jags for making the win hurt a lot less) but these two wins are important in that the team is learning how to win the close games that they lost so many times in the last two years and... the season isn't over yet. They're not making the playoffs but at least it's nice to have "something" to play for as we near Thanksgiving. 

The other thing is that I'm not going to hold the previous regimes drafting record against this current regime so I don't subscribe to the theory that Holmes and co. will screw up drafting and developing just because previous Lions regimes did. We joke about "It's the Lions, they always screw up" and I've partook in these jokes but am also willing to give these guys a chance. Hell, it's been 65 years so the Lions are due for a winning regime, right? RIGHT?

My problem is that after we went 1-6, and got there in some of the worst ways imaginable, I'd written off any hopes for playoffs for this team.

Now I'm told that we have better than a puncher's chance to get into the playoffs. With this team. With this defense. It seems so unlikely, it's hard for me to get my head around. Particularly given the persistent six-decades-long futility of this franchise.

But hey, if everyone says so, if 8-9 is a season to be wished for because it sneaks us into the wild card game, irrespective of whether we're equipped to win it or whether it accrues to the positive development of this team for future seasons, then I guess I'm on board

[buddha]

35 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Personally, I like Penix Jr, DTR, and KJ Jefferson.  I think one of these 3 could be the next  Dak Prescott prospect, a guy who gets labeled with accuracy issues in college and sheds that as a pro and becomes a stud.   

i'm wary of anyone with big accuracy issues in college.  

in the end, all of the qb prospects are flawed in some way.  the lions are going to have to pick one of them and live with the results.

i really wanted bryce young but i dont think they'll get him barring a late season collapse (always possible with this team and they are probably one jarad goff injury away from that).  if they cant get young then any of the next level qbs will be fine with me.  i just hope they can snag one a little later in the draft and use their top picks on much needed defensive help.  dt and cb in particular.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

let us never be conflicted about beating the bears.  it is always good to beat the bears.

always.

And the Vikings, and the Packers...

But I know where you're coming from...

(Sorry for he double entendre... 😉)

[1984Echoes]

50 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Rams pick right now is higher than the Lions. How about we just root for the Rams to lose?

+1