mtutiger Posted October 5, 2023 Author Share Posted October 5, 2023 2 hours ago, chasfh said: The gratuity of the shot is not against the the shooter—because who gives a fck about him—but against the Democratic Party and Democrats, since the congressman was suggesting that the shooter was acting on behalf of the party by calling him a "Democrat terrorist". He basically says the Democratic Party harbors or even employs terrorists. To which, by the way, I might reply, "Projection Junction, what's your function ..." Exactly.... anybody remember the MAGA Bomber? Funny how Burchett and the GOP never seem to find time to bring him up when the discussion of political violence comes up. The term I've heard used in the past is "nut-picking".... and in the grand scheme of things, it's pretty pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, smr-nj said: But, let’s be fair, and to ewsieg’s point, I have no doubt that a shooting of somebody from the other side would absolutely be identified using that person’s registered party also…. Even if he had no actual active participation in party activities. I agree with your comment as presented, but I'm also going to go out on a limb here and assert that the radical fascist right wing of the political spectrum represents the basic platforms of today's Republican party, and in far greater numbers, than those on the radical anarchist left wing of the spectrum represent corporatized Democratic Party, few if any of whom would even cop to being of the party. Maybe, like, 10:1. Edited October 5, 2023 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 I just don't see how throwing Gaetz a bone isn't going to backfire on the Dems, or at least the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 One of my kids saw this online: People who are giving Matt Gaetz a hard time are forgetting all the good work he has done, making the nation's highways safer for young people. To learn more, Google "Matt Gaetz" plus "minors" plus "traffic". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Here’s the problem for Republicans. Even if they want to oppose Trump and the Chaos Wing of the party they’re caught in a trap and there is no way out. They’ve basically get gerrymandered themselves into a never ending cycle of going farther and farther into craziness because their most vocal supporters demand it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I just don't see how throwing Gaetz a bone isn't going to backfire on the Dems, or at least the country. From the Dems side, it has NOTHING to do with Gaetz and EVERYTHING to do with their antipathy against McCarthy. Why would you even think this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: Here’s the problem for Republicans. Even if they want to oppose Trump and the Chaos Wing of the party they’re caught in a trap and there is no way out. They’ve basically get gerrymandered themselves into a never ending cycle of going farther and farther into craziness because their most vocal supporters demand it When Republicans are stripped down to 35% of the vote and lose countless State Senates & Houses, and US Senate and Representative races because the only ones left who will vote for them are the crazies... Maybe they'll get the message? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: I just don't see how throwing Gaetz a bone isn't going to backfire on the Dems, or at least the country. I don't see it as throwing any bones, it was more a case of refusing to fall into the trap of playing "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", because neither were/are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 47 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: From the Dems side, it has NOTHING to do with Gaetz and EVERYTHING to do with their antipathy against McCarthy. Why would you even think this? Because as bad as McCarthy was, Jordan will be worse. And I am more worried about a functioning Government than scoring political points. Speaker Jordan has disaster written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 McCarthy unilaterally started the "impeachment inquiry". Is it really the case dems should vote for the person that did that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Because as bad as McCarthy was, Jordan will be worse. And I am more worried about a functioning Government than scoring political points. Speaker Jordan has disaster written all over it. And it STILL has absolutely nothing to do with Gaetz. As for Jordan... Maybe. I don't know for certain he'd be worse. McCarthy was pretty F.U. to the Dems... unless he needed them because he couldn't carry his party for a vote. Maybe Jordan would be worse... but I don't see how it could be worse than it already has been when the Republicans carry the House majority. And that's been true since 2010. As for a functioning government... Our only hope, IMO, is that the Republicans cannot get behind a consensus candidate based on one faction or another... Forcing them to find a consensus along WITH the Dems. That would be a moderate. Or at least that's what I am HOPING for... but I'm not holding my breath, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Because as bad as McCarthy was, Jordan will be worse. And I am more worried about a functioning Government than scoring political points. Speaker Jordan has disaster written all over it. Then the GOP shouldn't elect him, should they? He's sure not going to get any Dem votes. When are voters going to start holding the GOP responsible for what they do instead of complaining about what Dems haven't stopped them from doing? Edited October 6, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: As for a functioning government... Our only hope, IMO, is that the Republicans cannot get behind a consensus candidate based on one faction or another... Forcing them to find a consensus along WITH the Dems. That would be a moderate. Some GOP members seemed genuinely surprised the Dems didn't bail McCarthy out. The same McCarthy that a)never even asked, and b)trashed them for enabling the success of his one righteous act. Same problem - take responsibility for yourself then maybe the other side will be willing to trust you enough to work with you. This is like a dependency problem - it still hasn't gotten bad enough for the non-MAGA GOP to see they have no choice but to make a break. If they can't get there, the Dems can't help them. Maybe if they get to the end of next week and can't elect anyone, the light will start to dawn in their little grey cells, but I doubt it. Edited October 6, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, pfife said: McCarthy unilaterally started the "impeachment inquiry". Is it really the case dems should vote for the person that did that? He also enabled Marjorie Taylor Greene throughout his speakership while kicking Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell off of committees for basically no reason at all. All while breaking his word on the debt ceiling deal and trying to pin the blame of a possible shutdown on the Democrats (even after their caucus delivered the Lions share of the votes for the CR) I don't know what the future holds, but when you look at the totality of work, he has no one to blame but himself for what happened on Tuesday. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Then the GOP shouldn't elect him, should they? He's sure not going to get any Dem votes. When are voters going to start holding the GOP responsible for what they do instead of complaining about what Dems haven't stopped them from doing? POINT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: POINT!!! Funny thing is, I'm not sure Jordan would be 'worse' in the long run. McCarthy is a much more glib and polished liar than Jordan is. Jordan is so transparent I can't see him fooling nearly as large a segment of the population. Edited October 6, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 30 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: This is like a dependency problem - it still hasn't gotten bad enough for the non-MAGA GOP to see they have no choice but to make a break. If they can't get there, the Dems can't help them. Maybe if they get to the end of next week and can't elect anyone, the light will start to dawn in their little grey cells, but I doubt it. I'm sympathetic to Ed's point in the sense that what comes after may not be all that great (at least in the short term), it's not lost on me. But if the result had been different the other day, it wouldn't change the reality, which is that a bunch of crazy nihilists run the Republican Party right now. And as you said, that's not a problem that Democrats are going to be able to fix.... that comes down to Republican politicians and their voters. Keeping Kevin in office doesn't do much on that front, it just kicks the can down the road.... until eventually (?) the bill comes due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Funny thing is, I'm not sure Jordan would be 'worse' in the long run. McCarthy is a much more glib and polished liar than Jordan is. Jordan is so transparent I can't see him fooling nearly as large a segment of the population. You over estimate a large segment of the so called conservatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Funny thing is, I'm not sure Jordan would be 'worse' in the long run. McCarthy is a much more glib and polished liar than Jordan is. Jordan is so transparent I can't see him fooling nearly as large a segment of the population. Jordan might be worse. But I don't see how it can GET any worse than what the Dems have faced the past 15 years whenever Republicans hold the House. Their mission, since the Tea Party's in 2010, is a complete and total F.U., to Obama, to the Dems, and to America. They have no interest in working for the good of the country. Only complete partisan FU's to anyone with different ideas than theirs. How is it, that Jordan can be worse than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Jordan might be worse. But I don't see how it can GET any worse than what the Dems have faced the past 15 years whenever Republicans hold the House. Their mission, since the Tea Party's in 2010, is a complete and total F.U., to Obama, to the Dems, and to America. They have no interest in working for the good of the country. Only complete partisan FU's to anyone with different ideas than theirs. How is it, that Jordan can be worse than that? I think Jordan could be worse, but at the same time, things are pretty bad right now. It would be one thing if we were talking about John Boehner (who the Dems would have saved), but Kevin McCarthy proved himself to be a terrible Speaker and, if he wanted to preserve his job, probably should have handled the position differently on a number of levels. Edited October 6, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 Yes... exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 As long as the Party of Trump is being funded by billionaires who dream of becoming full fledged oligarchs nothing is going to change. We're back to Teapot Dome days. At least some if the ultra rich thought a bit about their legacy and funded things like libraries and such. These guys today have no retrospect of history and plan to live forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 24 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said: You over estimate a large segment of the so called conservatives. Oh - I already write them off. Thinking more along the lines of suburban Moms. Lets just say, Jordan is not their type. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 6, 2023 Author Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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