Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[Tigerbomb13]

12 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Read the last 4-5 pages of this thread.

We have very different opinions on what “happy he’s dead” is interpreted then. 

[CMRivdogs]

I could take this all the way back to the Kennedy assignations and a lot of school shootings. It seems to be a common thread

Edited September 12 by CMRivdogs

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The one trans person I know best is a selfish jerk who’s unpleasant to be around. But even so, so what? She has a right to be as unpleasant as anyone else does. Everyone should be allowed to actualize their true selves on their own terms. 

Given the environment I work in, I have run across quite a few trans people.  They have generally been pleasant.  

Edited September 12 by Tiger337

[oblong]

How do we know Charlie didn't die of a Fentanyl overdose?

 

[oblong]

6 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

We have very different opinions on what “happy he’s dead” is interpreted then. 

As usual he's got nothing.  Typical of MAGA asshats.  They make up grievances.

 

[Motown Bombers]

I knew there was a reason I disliked Ezra Klein. 

[oblong]

There was nothing thought provoking about his views.  They were very pedestrian.  Nothing that made you go "Well... ok I guess.... I don't agree but...."  It was just simple "Gay is a sin" garbage.

 

[Tigerbomb13]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

There was nothing thought provoking about his views.  They were very pedestrian.  Nothing that made you go "Well... ok I guess.... I don't agree but...."  It was just simple "Gay is a sin" garbage.

 

Also that black women had less brain power, and similar awful thoughts. 
 

* I guess I need to put a disclaimer that this does not mean I’m happy he’s dead. 

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Read the last 4-5 pages of this thread.

I just checked, no member of this forum has celebrated Kirk's death in this thread. Now it's clear that many believe the world may be a better place without him and many have pointed out why they believe he was a bad guy (yours truly incl). But those remain quite different things. I think the world would be a better place with fewer lawyers - I'm not advocating we do any in.

Edited September 12 by gehringer_2

[Edman85]

16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I knew there was a reason I disliked Ezra Klein. 

Did you read the article or just the headline?

[ewsieg]

Couple of random thoughts

1) A Harris FBI likely makes no difference 'on the ground' in Utah.  I very much doubt any stupid posts by the FBI director putting out inaccurate information though.

2) Kirk was a master and arguably the first to be able to consistently do it, at inputting click bait headlines into video media form.  I wasn't a regular viewer of his, but I have watched him and he would put out a quote much like a click bait headline in response to some question posed to him.  It would often derail the questioners initial thoughts and get them to respond based on emotion.  Once he started talking, often you'd see he really didn't agree with his own initial comment and the full context was something that most people, even if they disagree, could at least understand.  One of the quotes going around after his death was him talking about not having empathy, I think it might have been over shootings.  I mean, right there, a horribly callous take.  But then when he explains his position, it's basically a technicality that he believes sympathy is a better word then empathy in some specific context and he says he has sympathy.  In short he's saying he has the same feelings we all have (or hopefully nearly all at least). He just takes that opportunity to enrage his opponent in the hopes he makes them mess up and then can explain why he's not really a bad person after.   He was not part of the solution like the right wants to say, when they say 'he just wanted to have discussions with people'.  He was part of the problem.  Currently I think Gavin Newsom is part of the problem as he mocks the president on Twitter, but what he's trying to accomplish also aligns with what I would like to see (derail Trump's presidency and MAGA policies), so right now i'm pro-Gavin.   Guess you could say Kirk was like Ciccarelli, one of those guys you paid attention to just how good they really were at their craft if they were on your team, otherwise they are just a hack that doesn't respect the game because they always got under your skin.

3) The amount of Facebook posts about this was crazy and were all the same (TAPAS - thoughts and prayers and ****) with some 'the left better not get away with this' sprinkled in.  I did kind of want to point out some kids were shot in a school shooting, but did not, mostly because 1) I didn't want to detract from the awfulness of the Kirk shooting, and 2) the WOKE right might be worse then the WOKE left and I don't want to get fired.

Edited September 12 by ewsieg

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Did you read the article or just the headline?

Yes, he basically said he spread his hate the right way by showing up on college campuses. He basically equates him to just someone with political differences. 

[gehringer_2]

41 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The one trans person I know best is a selfish jerk who’s unpleasant to be around. But even so, so what? She has a right to be as unpleasant as anyone else does. Everyone should be allowed to actualize their true selves on their own terms. 

True enough. Whatever you want to call 'good', it transcends all the boxes into which society or religion or culture tries to classify people.

Edited September 12 by gehringer_2

[Mr.TaterSalad]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Yes, he basically said he spread his hate the right way by showing up on college campuses. He basically equates him to just someone with political differences. 

If you spew racism, bigotry, hatred, transphobia, homophobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia, or antisemitism, but you do it at a college campus or on a YouTube podcast, that's doing it the right way. Forget that spewing all that **** is wrong, if you say it all politely, do it with a smile or do it without a white hood on then you're doing it the right way.

[RatkoVarda]

these neo-nazis also thought Kirk did it the right way

 

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Yes, he basically said he spread his hate the right way by showing up on college campuses. He basically equates him to just someone with political differences. 

IDK, I think Klein is clear enough the column is about the unacceptability of political violence more than about whether Kirk was good for the body politic or not. In the "liberal" (as in classical Burkean) Western view, everyone is supposed to have the right to speak and rational debate is supposed to lead to the right answers emerging by consensus. Maybe 20 and 21st century psychology, history and the rise of social media having given the lie to that idealization as naive; and that view certainly can't hold when things as basic as scientific facts are willfully denied in the body politic. Problem is  I don't know what framework we have to replace it

In a moral society a guy like Kirk would be marginalized because because everyone finds his view unacceptable, not by shooting him. Well, good luck with that - amirite?

[oblong]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

IDK, I think Klein is clear enough the column is about the unacceptability of political violence more than about whether Kirk was good for the body politic or not. In the "liberal" (as in classical Burkean) Western view, everyone is supposed to have the right to speak and rational debate is supposed to lead to the right answers emerging by consensus. Maybe 20 and 21st century psychology, history and the rise of social media having given the lie to that idealization as naive; and that view certainly can't hold when things as basic as scientific facts are willfully denied in the body politic. Problem is  I don't know what framework we have to replace it

In a moral society a guy like Kirk would be marginalized because because everyone finds his view unacceptable, not by shooting him. Well, good luck with that - amirite?

There's two purposes now for political thought/philosphy.  One is education and figuring things out.  The other is monetizing it.  Talk radio and later the internet showed you can get rich by being controversial.  Who cares what you really believe.  Get people watching you say it and you can make a good living. The rubes listening and watching think it's real.  People like Kirk and Shapiro, the children of Rush and Hannity, laugh to the bank.

 

[CMRivdogs]

I'm in the Argue Better camp. I might not agree with all of Utah's Governor Spencer Cox, especially on his recent remarks on Kirk. But I do respect him for his efforts to tone down rhetoric with his efforts as head of the National Governor's Association to attempt to reach compromises across political and idealogical lines with his disagree better Gov Wes Moore from Maryland is another one promoting actions by our leaders. 

What little I've seen of Kirk's "Prove Me Wrong" rallies tend to do just the opposite. It puts the opposing side on a defensive footing. 
 

This country became great because of leaders willing to make compromises. History has proven that when two ideology's refuse to come to some sort of an agreement, then countries fail.

 

 

[CMRivdogs]

I tend to doubt that one semester of college was enough to radicalize this guy....

 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

There was nothing thought provoking about his views.  They were very pedestrian.  Nothing that made you go "Well... ok I guess.... I don't agree but...."  It was just simple "Gay is a sin" garbage.

 

I agree he was shallow and formulaic.  It's almost like he was a parody of conservative views.  He simply wasn't deserving of all the attention he got.  

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

I tend to doubt that one semester of college was enough to radicalize this guy....

 

I radicalize students with Stata programming commands and regression equations every day.   

[LaceyLou]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

This is a big ball of wax right here. This lays bare the whole fallacy of that born again nonsense, which stipulates the only way to get to heaven is by "accepting Jesus Christ as your personal lord and savior", and that good works or good behavior or good ethics count for nothing. Doesn't matter how evil you act because you're going to heaven if you've accepted Jesus etc. It serves as a cosmic license to lie and steal and kill.

While I'm far from being a scholar of the Bible, my reading of it led me to believe that you need to live the teachings: feed the hungry, visit the sick and jailed, to name a couple. And, to go forward and sin no more. And, while I'm sure that there can be cases of people sincerely repenting at the end of their lives, I would hope that it takes more than 'yikes, I'm dying so I better become born again' in which one is only saying the words to avoid punishment. 

And.... if I were to find myself in 'Heaven' with people who are as hateful as certain of his followers are, then that frankly would not be my idea of Heaven.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

I could take this all the way back to the Kennedy assignations and a lot of school shootings. It seems to be a common thread

Wow, who knew that crazy nihilistic people with guns could incoherent views.

[CMRivdogs]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Wow, who knew that crazy nihilistic people with guns could incoherent views.

Another thing to keep in mind, especially for those saying this is not normal. Ever since folks like John Smith, the Pilgrims, and others landed on the shores of what is now America we've been a violent people. 
It's in our DNA

[GalagaGuy]

Am I happy he's dead?  Nah

Am I sad he's dead?  Nah

Do I think he deserves what he got?   Probably 

Do I think Republicans are hypocrites?  Absolutely