gehringer_2 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: QB runs are just not an integral part of his game. Yup, The plus thing is the guy who can roll and then throw on the run. As you noted - that's Rogers and Mahomes mostly. You have to distinguish between that and the college style dual threat - tuck the ball and just run. That is not worth as much in the NFL as the guy who can use his legs or size or just quickness to keep the *pass* play alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganCardinal Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Yup, The plus thing is the guy who can roll and then throw on the run. As you noted - that's Rogers and Mahomes mostly. You have to distinguish between that and the college style dual threat - tuck the ball and just run. That is not worth as much in the NFL as the guy who can use his legs or size or just quickness to keep the *pass* play alive. Of the Rodgers model, I think Stroud is the most similar in this draft class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) Besides accuracy, pocket awareness and being able to move to the right spots to avoid pressure or find better open passing lanes is probably the single most important thing to being a great qb and I think Goff excels at that. People bring up his low sack total and just chalk it up to our line and yes they were good but that isn't the only reason. The advanced numbers in fact say that the line wasn't giving Goff all day to throw instead Goff was the one that created the extra time needed or had the recognition to release the ball before getting sacked which shows his pocket awareness. Edited March 9, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 8 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Besides accuracy, pocket awareness and being able to move to the right spots to avoid pressure or find better open passing lanes is probably the single most important thing to being a great qb and I think Goff excels at that. People bring up his low sack total and just chalk it up to our line and yes they were good but that isn't the only reason. The advanced numbers in fact say that the line wasn't giving Goff all day to throw instead Goff was the one that created the extra time needed or had the recognition to release the ball before getting sacked which shows his pocket awareness. ben johnson. goff was complete shit in the pocket last year. how many times did we see goff turn his back to the rush last year and run backwards? this year? maybe he's "more comfortable in the offense"? whatever narrative people want to throw out there, but to me its ben johnson. thats my narrative. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Amazing how Goff always ends up with the best coaches. The Lions are a longstanding organization known for their impeccable coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 It could be Ben Johnson, it could be actual on field coaching or it could just be a skill that you pick up with age and experience either way I thought he looked great at it last year. There were a numerous times every game where I thought a defender had him dead to rights only to either make a subtle move to get out of it or spin/roll away from the pressure completely creating more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 1 hour ago, buddha said: i would expect lamar to be more productive under johnson than he has been lately. i do not want the lions to trade for lamar. i do not want the lions to sign lamar. i havent seen anyone here advocate for that, but i could have missed it. but lamar has more upside as a player than jared goff. He also has more downside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 I would also add that in 2021 Goff's top receivers were the likes of Tom Kennedy, Kalif Raymond, Khaderal Hodge and a rookie St Brown. Swift was also injured and Jamaal Williams. They relied on a RB named Netflix because he wasn't even in the league. The LT missed half the season and the center missed most of the season. The team surrounding Jackson is an excuse but not for Goff. Despite that, in 2021 Goff had an identical QB rating to Jackson, had more total yards, and only one fewer TD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason_R Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Goff does have a Jekyll and Hyde quality to his game. When he is rattled, he is really rattled. But it is very rare to find a QB like Joe Burrow who seems totally unfazed by the pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Jason_R said: Joe Burrow who seems totally unfazed by the pressure. Maybe it helps to be named Joe.....Montana set the bar for cool under pressure. Edited March 9, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Maybe it helps to be named Joe.....Montana set the bar for cool under pressure. How do you explain Joey Harrington then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: How do you explain Joey Harrington then? He went by Joey and not Joe. You didn't see Joey Flacco or Joey Montana winning Super Bowls. Edited March 9, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said: How do you explain Joey Harrington then? His full name is John Joseph Harrington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 i think its much more likely that brad holmes drafts a qb at 6 than he trades two #1s for lamar jackson. and i dont think its that likely he takes a qb at 6 (because richardson will be off the board). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) If Holmes wanted Richardson bad enough he'd make the move to go up to get him if he indeed didn't think he was going to be there at 6 but I just don't think he is that interested in investing that much into QB right now. I think at most we will see them spend money on a better backup whether that be somebody like Winston, Dalton etc. but I think that will be it. But who knows, Lord knows I've been wrong plenty of times before. Edited March 9, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 8 hours ago, buddha said: 6 hours ago, buddha said: i would expect lamar to be more productive under johnson than he has been lately. i do not want the lions to trade for lamar. i do not want the lions to sign lamar. i havent seen anyone here advocate for that, but i could have missed it. but lamar has more upside as a player than jared goff. I don't think anybody doubts that Lamar has more upside than Goff. I mean... DUH, but there's also far more risk with Lamar and the risk of paying two 1sts and $20m/yr more for the next two seasons isn't worth it. The upside is enticing though but I think continuing to build a TEAM, a team that is building chemistry with Goff is the way to build this thing. I will say that acquiring Lamar would juice up this market like nothing we've seen since ??? I don't know if that would lead to more wins but it sure would generate a crapload of excitement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) They aren’t trading for Lamar but if they did, I wouldn’t upset if they drafted Mayer at 18 anymore. Edited March 10, 2023 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, Hongbit said: They aren’t trading for Lamar but if they did, I wouldn’t upset if they drafted Mayer at 18 anymore. if they traded for lamar they likely wouldnt have 18... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, NYLion said: I don't think anybody doubts that Lamar has more upside than Goff. I mean... DUH, but there's also far more risk with Lamar and the risk of paying two 1sts and $20m/yr more for the next two seasons isn't worth it. The upside is enticing though but I think continuing to build a TEAM, a team that is building chemistry with Goff is the way to build this thing. I will say that acquiring Lamar would juice up this market like nothing we've seen since ??? I don't know if that would lead to more wins but it sure would generate a crapload of excitement. i dont know man, i read this site and i think people think goff is the best qb in the league and better than a healthy lamar. but like you said, the risk of multiple #1s and $50 million a year GUARANTEED is waaaaay too risky. do people want to give goff $45 million a year? because that's what an extension will cost. which is why i think the plan always was to draft a qb this year and let him sit for a year or two behind goff. then you have three years of below market cost for a qb left. but i could be wrong, holmes seems to like goff a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, buddha said: i dont know man, i read this site and i think people think goff is the best qb in the league and better than a healthy lamar. but like you said, the risk of multiple #1s and $50 million a year GUARANTEED is waaaaay too risky. do people want to give goff $45 million a year? because that's what an extension will cost. which is why i think the plan always was to draft a qb this year and let him sit for a year or two behind goff. then you have three years of below market cost for a qb left. but i could be wrong, holmes seems to like goff a lot. I mean, I'm just posting the numbers that show Goff is more productive than Jackson. $45 million is the going rate for a good QB. It's more important to look at guaranteed value. Goff will probably get half the guarantees as Jackson. They don't need cap space in two to three years. Drafting a QB because of cap space is idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: I mean, I'm just posting the numbers that show Goff is more productive than Jackson. $45 million is the going rate for a good QB. It's more important to look at guaranteed value. Goff will probably get half the guarantees as Jackson. They don't need cap space in two to three years. Drafting a QB because of cap space is idiotic. all you do is talk about how awesome goff is and how it would be crazy to think about alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, buddha said: all you do is talk about how awesome goff is and how it would be crazy to think about alternatives. I was literally one of the first people on this forum to mention Lamar Jackson. I suggested the Lions look at him before most other people. That was before the season and Goff has proved himself to be the QB he was in 2017-2018 and Lamar Jackson isn't as good as I thought he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said: I was literally one of the first people on this forum to mention Lamar Jackson. I suggested the Lions look at him before most other people. That was before the season and Goff has proved himself to be the QB he was in 2017-2018 and Lamar Jackson isn't as good as I thought he was. and? you dont talk up goff? even before the season you were talking him up. come on man. own it. youre goff's biggest fan. which is cool and all, but dont act like you dont do it. every time someone questions goff you post a bunch of other people's tweets about how great goff is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, buddha said: and? you dont talk up goff? even before the season you were talking him up. come on man. own it. youre goff's biggest fan. which is cool and all, but dont act like you dont do it. every time someone questions goff you post a bunch of other people's tweets about how great goff is. I am a big fan of Goff. I wish the old forum existed since I said as soon as the rumors came out that the Rams were interested in Stafford that I would trade Stafford for Goff and a 1st. Holmes one upped me and got an additional 1st round pick. Unlike you, I didn't completely give up on a former number one overall pick who had been to multiple Pro Bowls and led a top offense to the Super Bowl. I wasn't convinced his success was solely due to the great McVay. People talk constantly about replacing Goff so I have to remind everybody how great he is. You should just own it that you made up your mind on Goff as soon as the trade was announced. Edited March 10, 2023 by Motown Bombers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.TaterSalad Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, Hongbit said: They aren’t trading for Lamar but if they did, I wouldn’t upset if they drafted Mayer at 18 anymore. I'd be looking for a new GM if they drafted Mayer at #6 or #18. You have to win a Super Bowl before you have the cache built up in this town to draft yet another first round TE. If Holmes drafts Mayer and I am Sheila he'd be asking me real quick why his badge access into the draft war room suddenly stopped working. Edited March 10, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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