buddha Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 philly: jerami grant from detroit and jeremy lamb from philly indiana: ben simmons and a 2023 first from philly detroit: myles turner from indiana and georges niang from philly. who says no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 hours ago, buddha said: philly: jerami grant from detroit and jeremy lamb from philly indiana: ben simmons and a 2023 first from philly detroit: myles turner from indiana and georges niang from philly. who says no? Philly says, hell no. Ben Simmons probably says no as well. Good for Detroit though I'm not sure we'll see Grant traded. I have a feeling it's one of those situations with Weaver fielding offers but not really wanting to trade him unless it's an offer that blows him away. I think this is THE opportunity to maximize his value because I don't think his value will ever be higher than it is right now with it being a hot sellers market but I wouldn't want Weaver trading him for less than optimal value either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 13 hours ago, buddha said: philly: jerami grant from detroit and jeremy lamb from philly indiana: ben simmons and a 2023 first from philly detroit: myles turner from indiana and georges niang from philly. who says no? I wouldn't do it. I'd rather hold Grant and try to move him this offseason than take a deal for Turner. On the plus side, he's 2 years younger than Grant and the Pistons need a competent Center who can block shots. However, you have the same contract issue with both of them. They'll want a big payday in 1.5 years (or an extension this summer) that the Pistons are trying to avoid since they aren't ready to compete now. Plus, I wouldn't tie up 30M/yr in a Center in today's NBA. If you watched last season's playoffs you saw a lot of bigs - even top guys like Gobert and Ayton - sitting on the bench for long periods when teams spread the court on them. Great in the regular season, but bigs are getting exposed in the playoffs these days. He's also not a good rebounder for his position and size (6.7 per game). He's not a rim runner, preferring to step out and take that three - which he's below average at (33%), even though he takes 4 a game. He also has recent injury issues that are concerning when you're talking about a big man's feet/legs. I want the same thing Weaver wants - a young prospect and a 1st rounder. I'm looking at guys like Patrick Williams, Wiseman, Kuminga, Collins, Anfernee Simmons, Okongwu, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Minnesota writer just through out this proposal. Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels and an unprotected 2022 1st for Grant. Who says no? I like Beasley as a bench piece and somebody who can provide a bit of instant offense there but he is who he is and McDaniels while young probably isn't likely to be anything special so it really comes down to what you think of the TWolves and in turn that pick. It would be nice to get that pick right away and currently the Twolves are in the 7th spot, with teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Blazers also in the play in portion if that holds true they easily could be dumped out of it and that pick becomes a lottery pick. On the flip side though they are close to the 6th spot and if you feel they are only getting better and the addition of Grant will make them better then the trade doesn't make as much sense since then the pick could be around 20 instead. I'm on the fence about it, I mean I would certainly take it over keeping Grant if that is what it came down to but I personally would like for a better young lottery ticket than a McDaniels but I do think Beasley could be helpful to the team and the 1st could end up being the best that we could end up with. Edited January 26, 2022 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 31 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: Minnesota writer just through out this proposal. Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels and an unprotected 2022 1st for Grant. Who says no? I like Beasley as a bench piece and somebody who can provide a bit of instant offense there but he is who he is and McDaniels while young probably isn't likely to be anything special so it really comes down to what you think of the TWolves and in turn that pick. It would be nice to get that pick right away and currently the Twolves are in the 7th spot, with teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Blazers also in the play in portion if that holds true they easily could be dumped out of it and that pick becomes a lottery pick. On the flip side though they are close to the 6th spot and if you feel they are only getting better and the addition of Grant will make them better then the trade doesn't make as much sense since then the pick could be around 20 instead. I'm on the fence about it, I mean I would certainly take it over keeping Grant if that is what it came down to but I personally would like for a better young lottery ticket than a McDaniels but I do think Beasley could be helpful to the team and the 1st could end up being the best that we could end up with. what type of #1 pick do you think youre getting for grant? any team that trades for him will be a contender and their pick will be in the late teens at best. youre not getting a lottery pick foe grant. any deal that gets a #1 pick for grant is good. the deal i would hold out for is getting a prime time rookie that is a bench guy (or injured) on a good team, a team that needs one more piece and can part with a top talent that might develop for one that is developed. like chicago parting with williams for grant. other than that, give me young players and a #1 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 and again, grant hinders this team. look what they've done without him? they've finally done what most people here have told them to do all season: put hayes on the bench and give the ball to cade and let him work. if grant is on the team he hogs the ball with all his one on one iso shit that takes the ball out of cade's hands. cade defers to grant. look, if grant wants to stand in the corner and shoot threes, that's great. if grant wants to be the guy with the ball in his hands when cade is getting a rest? that's great too. but grant starting and continuing to go one on five in casey's weak ass offense? nope, nada, trade him now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) Agreed about Grant. There's no better time to move him than now. I don't hate that Minnesota offer, but I don't love it either. The pick is one of the better ones you'd get, since most other interested parties will be true contenders, but the player return isn't as strong as a Patrick Williams. I also think this offseason is the right time to move Casey into a development front office role. Let him do what he does best, which is help the locker room by teaching young kids to become men and develop them. He's done a fabulous job of that and it's the one thing I give him a ton of credit for. On the other hand, I want him off the court. He's a terrible X and Os coach, his offensive sets are simplistic three man basketball, there's little movement of players or the ball, and it's reliant on isolation basketball. He also is a terrible in-game strategist and has no clue how to put players in the best positions to succeed on the court based upon their particular skill sets. We watch teams like Denver and Golden State zip the ball around and talk about how much fun it is, but we'll never have an offense like that with Casey at the helm. I only bring that up because you mentioned Grant's isolations - some of that is on Grant, but I think a lot of it is on Casey as well. We're just happy now because we're seeing Cade and Bey iso's instead of Grant and they usually do better things with their iso than shoot a 19 footer - but the plays are the same and they're easy to defend. There's a reason Casey won Coach of the Year the same year that Nick Nurse arrived to fix the offense - Toronto fans will be happy to tell you all about their love/hate relationship with Casey. Edited January 26, 2022 by Betrayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2022/1/25/22901378/nba-trade-rumors-john-collins-jerami-grant-detroit-pistons-atlanta-hawks If the Hawks truly are interested in finding a new home for Collins and they're calling about Grant, we need to find a way to get this done. We couldn't find a better fit for Cade than Collins and I think he'd pair well with either a spacing Center (Kelly) or a rebounding shot blocker (Mitchell Robinson as a FA). Add Ivey in the draft rather than going after one of those big men and all of a sudden you've flipped the athleticism story for this team on its head. ATL will want more than Grant, but I can't imagine it's too far off. They could really use his defense and ability to score more than they can use Collins rim running (remember, they already have Capella to fill that role). CoJo has been increasing his trade value as a toss in, so he could be a valuable asset for ATL when Young is resting. JJ, Frank Jackson, Stew, Hayes...I'd do what I had to do to make this move. Cade, Bey, and maybe Hami are the only untouchables in my opinion. A lineup of Cade, Ivey, Bey, Collins, and Olynyk could make some serious noise next year. I don't like paying Centers a ton, but they may even consider tossing the bank at Ayton at that point because that would be a pretty deadly young core. I still like the PWilliams deal as well and it'd be a tough call for me if they were both on the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 Collins would be a God send here and if you do decide to go with Ivey and not one of the bigs in the draft I would totally go after Ayton if we could. I guess the problem comes though is that I prefer Bey at the 4 vs. The 3 but that would be a small concession to have that much athletic talent in the front court. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Minnesota writer just through out this proposal. Malik Beasley, Jaden McDaniels and an unprotected 2022 1st for Grant. Who says no? I like Beasley as a bench piece and somebody who can provide a bit of instant offense there but he is who he is and McDaniels while young probably isn't likely to be anything special so it really comes down to what you think of the TWolves and in turn that pick. It would be nice to get that pick right away and currently the Twolves are in the 7th spot, with teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Blazers also in the play in portion if that holds true they easily could be dumped out of it and that pick becomes a lottery pick. On the flip side though they are close to the 6th spot and if you feel they are only getting better and the addition of Grant will make them better then the trade doesn't make as much sense since then the pick could be around 20 instead. I'm on the fence about it, I mean I would certainly take it over keeping Grant if that is what it came down to but I personally would like for a better young lottery ticket than a McDaniels but I do think Beasley could be helpful to the team and the 1st could end up being the best that we could end up with. A couple of role players with modest upside and a mid to late 1st? Nah If that's the best offer Weaver can get in this sellers market then just keep him and reassess in the offseason. I'm not a big Grant fan but I don't think they should trade him just for the sake of trading him. I get the arguments for Grant not being a great fit for the team anymore and not being worth his next extension but I feel like that Minnesota package would be selling somewhat low considering the way the market is shaping up. Edited January 26, 2022 by NYLion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 John Givony of ESPN and Draft Express put out his latest mock where the picks were just based off current record. He has us taking Paulo at 2 with Chet going 1st to Orlando. Also read an article by Sam Vecenie of The Athletic where he compares the guys in this class to last years. He said according to every evaluator he talked to the top 3 of this past draft of Cade, Green and Mobley are seen as better than any of the prospects in this upcoming draft and that all 3 were worthy number 1 picks. Where as evaluators feel the top guys in this draft are more like your average 3 to 5 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 espn proposal: grant to bulls pwill and derrick jones jr to detroit. given what levert went for, i would hope the pistons could wrangle that portland protected first from the bulls too. otoh, just get rid of grant, and pwill has a ton of upside and is potentially what this team needs: an athletic wing. ANY athletic wing! please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Grant really highlighting why we need to move him in these games since he came back. Lots of mid-range contested shots, turning his body away from contact when he does go the rim, and just being a ball stopper far too often. He's best as a high level role player, but that's not what he wants to be because he wants that next paycheck. He's also given Weaver a "list of teams" that he wants to play for and made it public that he wants to be a "top option" on any team he goes to. At this point my loyalty to Grant for coming here is gone since he's actively tanking his own trade value and holding the organization hostage to his list. We've got to get something for him now or this offseason at the latest. I don't want him getting a 25M/yr extension. And if we let him walk for no return, that's just bad asset management. You could argue that other teams see this as well, and you'd be right. But those teams are looking for the final piece(s) to push them over the top so they're at the stage where taking Grant makes sense. The Pistons are far from that, so spending our cap on a role player who doesn't fit the timeline is not the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 56 minutes ago, Betrayer said: Grant really highlighting why we need to move him in these games since he came back. Lots of mid-range contested shots, turning his body away from contact when he does go the rim, and just being a ball stopper far too often. He's best as a high level role player, but that's not what he wants to be because he wants that next paycheck. He's also given Weaver a "list of teams" that he wants to play for and made it public that he wants to be a "top option" on any team he goes to. At this point my loyalty to Grant for coming here is gone since he's actively tanking his own trade value and holding the organization hostage to his list. We've got to get something for him now or this offseason at the latest. I don't want him getting a 25M/yr extension. And if we let him walk for no return, that's just bad asset management. You could argue that other teams see this as well, and you'd be right. But those teams are looking for the final piece(s) to push them over the top so they're at the stage where taking Grant makes sense. The Pistons are far from that, so spending our cap on a role player who doesn't fit the timeline is not the way. getting something of value for grant is weaver's most important job right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I think they will find a way to send him to Portland to be with his boy Dame. Would like Simons but would be happy with a 1st and some expiring contracts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 simmons likely going to nets in some deal for harden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Ideally the Bulls would be interested in Grant and we could pry away Patrick Williams for him. It's probably a longshot as I don't think they'd want to give up on him so soon but they just might if they feel Grant could be the piece that solidifies their chances of making a deep playoff run. I can't think of another young player that we could realistically get that has the potential of Williams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 13 hours ago, buddha said: espn proposal: grant to bulls pwill and derrick jones jr to detroit. given what levert went for, i would hope the pistons could wrangle that portland protected first from the bulls too. otoh, just get rid of grant, and pwill has a ton of upside and is potentially what this team needs: an athletic wing. ANY athletic wing! please! I'd be shocked, really shocked, if they get Williams straight up for Grant, never mind all the other stuff added in. Lets face it, Grant isn't getting traded tomorrow. It's more than likely that Weaver values him higher than the rest of the league does and since Grant chose "the black city, the black GM and black coach" as reasons for signing with Detroit, I have a feeling that Weaver takes that very seriously and will let his personal feelings dictate what to do with Grant as opposed to what is a smart business decision. Weaver kept Rose too long for similar reasons, because Rose CHOSE to be here. Not a smart way to GM but that's just me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 8 hours ago, NYLion said: I'd be shocked, really shocked, if they get Williams straight up for Grant, never mind all the other stuff added in. Lets face it, Grant isn't getting traded tomorrow. It's more than likely that Weaver values him higher than the rest of the league does and since Grant chose "the black city, the black GM and black coach" as reasons for signing with Detroit, I have a feeling that Weaver takes that very seriously and will let his personal feelings dictate what to do with Grant as opposed to what is a smart business decision. Weaver kept Rose too long for similar reasons, because Rose CHOSE to be here. Not a smart way to GM but that's just me. i really hope that's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 47 minutes ago, buddha said: i really hope that's not true. Ditto. And move Josh Jackson while we're at it please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 how hard are the houston rockets laughing right now at brooklyn? gave up a garnett/pierce haul to get a guy who quit on your team in one year. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Sounds like J. Jackson and Trey Lyles in deal. Edited February 10, 2022 by Tigeraholic1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 40 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Sounds like J. Jackson and Trey Lyles in deal. ...and 2 second round picks. But it looks like the lesser of the CLE and GS 2nd rounders next year and the SAC 2nd rounder in 2024, so not too bad. Happy to get JJ off the roster. As for Lyles, he had some decent offensive games but he's a train wreck on defense and at 26 he kinda is what he is. So I'm happy to take a flier on a 22 year old athlete like Bagley who has an archetype that could fill a huge need for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I don’t understand the fascination some teams have for 2nd round picks. There are a few little nuggets here and there but the majority seem pretty worthless. I’m glad that Troy seems feel the same way that I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Ditto. And move Josh Jackson while we're at it please... I feel better now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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