RandyMarsh Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Not sure what we would have to send back but the NY News wrote an article yesterday of the teams most likely to sign him and they had the PIstons at the top of the list. They said they talked to opposing GMs to ballpark what they expect him to get and they said 4/90 but the Pistons may go 4/100 if they go after him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 24, 2023 Author Share Posted June 24, 2023 It would take quite a bit if they are willing to match offers. He's a decent player but he has a pretty bad injury history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, casimir said: What would a reasonable sign and trade look like for Cameron Johnson? Sounds like the Nets would match an offer sheet if he signed one. So, what’s the trade return value? Just like when people wanted Ayton, I hate the idea of going after a restricted free agent for this reason. You have to throw a really overpriced contract at him and then on top of that you're going to lose even more assets because it's going to wind up being a sign and trade. You're going to have to offer him close to 30M. You can't win 17 games and then start spending that much on role players and give up assets on top of it for a trade. I'd rather sign someone that's close to what Cam is and still have my other assets (Bogie + stuff) for another trade. Cam's good, but he's no borderline All-Star and never plays a full season. This isn't Mikal Bridges we're talking about here. If I'm throwing out a 30M bag, I'd rather throw it at Jeremy Grant (but I'm not sure I want that either). If I have to go restricted, I'd probably rather go after Thybulle. He won't cost nearly as much and he shot around 37% from three the last year while being a beast of a defender. Barnes might be a good option to get a vet in the locker room who can spread the floor and start for a bit while Ausar is learning. Bruce Brown can come home. Is Josh Hart out there? He has a player option, right? Max Strus? Jalen McDaniels? Torrey Craig? Joe Ingles? Yuta Watanabe? I honestly think Troy spends the majority of his free agent money in a trade and just signs one small free agent. That seems to be his thing. Edited June 24, 2023 by Betrayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 $30 mil a year at cam johnson is an overpay for sure. are we just trying to hamstring the nets? they have the space to match and likely will. jerami grant is staying in portland most likely. kuzma doesnt really fit this team. its a bad year to have max dollars unless youre using it to take on someone else's bad deal. zach lavine? demar derozan? john collins? tobias harris? nothing enticing there unless philly gives me assets for harris and weaver hasnt shown much of an inclination to do that type of deal. or do you do the stupid thing and offer draymond $30 mil a year? after all, he's "tough". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 Amount of games Cam Johnson has played per season: 57 60 (Covid years so only 72 game season) 66 42 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 who does he think he is? zion williamson? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 9 hours ago, Deleterious said: Amount of games Cam Johnson has played per season: 57 60 (Covid years so only 72 game season) 66 42 Yeah, that’s an obvious omission on my part. Shame on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 16 hours ago, Betrayer said: Just like when people wanted Ayton, I hate the idea of going after a restricted free agent for this reason. You have to throw a really overpriced contract at him and then on top of that you're going to lose even more assets because it's going to wind up being a sign and trade. You're going to have to offer him close to 30M. You can't win 17 games and then start spending that much on role players and give up assets on top of it for a trade. I'd rather sign someone that's close to what Cam is and still have my other assets (Bogie + stuff) for another trade. Cam's good, but he's no borderline All-Star and never plays a full season. This isn't Mikal Bridges we're talking about here. If I'm throwing out a 30M bag, I'd rather throw it at Jeremy Grant (but I'm not sure I want that either). If I have to go restricted, I'd probably rather go after Thybulle. He won't cost nearly as much and he shot around 37% from three the last year while being a beast of a defender. Barnes might be a good option to get a vet in the locker room who can spread the floor and start for a bit while Ausar is learning. Bruce Brown can come home. Is Josh Hart out there? He has a player option, right? Max Strus? Jalen McDaniels? Torrey Craig? Joe Ingles? Yuta Watanabe? I honestly think Troy spends the majority of his free agent money in a trade and just signs one small free agent. That seems to be his thing. In general I don’t like sign & trades because it is a two step purchase, so to speak. The contract and the trade. In a vacuum it seems excessive. However, the Pistons aren’t working talent acquisitions in a vacuum. And the free agent pool this off-season is shallow. I don’t know, this is still a young team and they’ve got a lot of recent high draft picks on the team. Maybe the better acquisitions this off-season are veteran influences on short term deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 I think it is the wrong time for this team to go all in on free agency. We have no clue what Cade, Ivey, and Ausar are even going to be in a few years. Even the role players like Duren and Stewart are unknowns at this point, well maybe not Stewart so much. I will sign just about anyone to a 1 or 2 year deal. Those never handicap you. But you start talking 3 or 4 years and 20%-25% of our cap? Nope. It would have to be such a clear home run free agent pickup for me to commit to that. But no way am I giving a guy like Cam Johnson 4/$120m which is what people are saying they would give him. This team is full of kids who need to develop. Let that happen for the next 2 or 3 years then start to go big in free agency. For one, if those kids do develop it will be easier and cheaper to attract free agents here. And two, we will know what skills those guys developed or more importantly, didn't develop. Then you can use free agency to shore up areas we are lacking in. All the ingredients for the chili are in the pot. This is where you let it simmer for an hour or two and see what flavors develop. Then you start to adjust your seasoning. I also value flexibility. Every year there is some team(s) looking to clear cap space to make some move. I like keeping some space to help those teams. Let them park a bad deal on our roster for a year and pick up a draft pick for doing so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Deleterious said: I think it is the wrong time for this team to go all in on free agency. We have no clue what Cade, Ivey, and Ausar are even going to be in a few years. Even the role players like Duren and Stewart are unknowns at this point, well maybe not Stewart so much. I will sign just about anyone to a 1 or 2 year deal. Those never handicap you. But you start talking 3 or 4 years and 20%-25% of our cap? Nope. It would have to be such a clear home run free agent pickup for me to commit to that. But no way am I giving a guy like Cam Johnson 4/$120m which is what people are saying they would give him. This team is full of kids who need to develop. Let that happen for the next 2 or 3 years then start to go big in free agency. For one, if those kids do develop it will be easier and cheaper to attract free agents here. And two, we will know what skills those guys developed or more importantly, didn't develop. Then you can use free agency to shore up areas we are lacking in. All the ingredients for the chili are in the pot. This is where you let it simmer for an hour or two and see what flavors develop. Then you start to adjust your seasoning. I also value flexibility. Every year there is some team(s) looking to clear cap space to make some move. I like keeping some space to help those teams. Let them park a bad deal on our roster for a year and pick up a draft pick for doing so. I’d be fine with letting the kids play and using the salary space to gather assets for taking on shorter term bad contracts. It’d be nice to add some outside shooting to the mix. It’d be even better to develop that with the pieces that they have, but that’s easier said than done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 That's why I like the idea of Harrison Barnes. Vet who can spread the floor (career 38% from 3) and would be a great rental player while the "chili simmers". You can give him a reasonable contract with a team option for the last year to make it easier to trade if necessary. But I truly believe we have to move Bogie. We were the second worst defense in the league last year, Weaver has spent the off-season talking about defense, and he's drafted for defense as well. The defense doesn't get better with Bogie as your starting Forward. He'd be great for a contender that needs shooting, he's coming off of a career year, and he has a very friendly contract. Move him now while he has high value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 I wouldn't mind spending the contract on Cam Johnson... but it also costs assets... I would also absolutely need/want to move Bojan ala Betrayer, either way, who doesn't play defense anyways. If Cam doesn't work; then I would definitely be interested in Jalen McDaniels. Move Bojan, and then go after Cam or McDaniels as the new "vet" outside shooter. You can play either of these guys at either SF or PF so I don't think they block Ausar from taking over the SF spot if he gets up to speed quickly. If anything, they can put Stew on the Bench as the 6th-Man/ Energy guy off the bench. It would also be easier to put McDaniels on the bench as the 6th guy if that's the decision, and not so easy with Cam so there's also that... My vote is for McDaniels. That's my offseason recipe anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 8 hours ago, Deleterious said: I think it is the wrong time for this team to go all in on free agency. We have no clue what Cade, Ivey, and Ausar are even going to be in a few years. Even the role players like Duren and Stewart are unknowns at this point, well maybe not Stewart so much. I will sign just about anyone to a 1 or 2 year deal. Those never handicap you. But you start talking 3 or 4 years and 20%-25% of our cap? Nope. It would have to be such a clear home run free agent pickup for me to commit to that. But no way am I giving a guy like Cam Johnson 4/$120m which is what people are saying they would give him. This team is full of kids who need to develop. Let that happen for the next 2 or 3 years then start to go big in free agency. For one, if those kids do develop it will be easier and cheaper to attract free agents here. And two, we will know what skills those guys developed or more importantly, didn't develop. Then you can use free agency to shore up areas we are lacking in. All the ingredients for the chili are in the pot. This is where you let it simmer for an hour or two and see what flavors develop. Then you start to adjust your seasoning. I also value flexibility. Every year there is some team(s) looking to clear cap space to make some move. I like keeping some space to help those teams. Let them park a bad deal on our roster for a year and pick up a draft pick for doing so. They don't have to go big in free agency or trade but they need some quality vets, more Bogey types but ones that play defense and are younger. Bruce Brown is a young vet that shouldn't break the bank. Correct the mistake of letting him go in the first place and bring him in. I think the Pistons are beyond the "sin eating" stage although I wonder if taking on somebody like Tim Hardaway Jr. might be of interest if Dallas wants to chase a big fish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Betrayer said: But I truly believe we have to move Bogie. We were the second worst defense in the league last year, Weaver has spent the off-season talking about defense, and he's drafted for defense as well. The defense doesn't get better with Bogie as your starting Forward. He'd be great for a contender that needs shooting, he's coming off of a career year, and he has a very friendly contract. Move him now while he has high value. We've talked about this before but he's the only Piston outside of Burks that can shoot at a high level. Unless they play on bringing in a shooter in free agency, they kind of have to keep him. Plus, by all accounts, Weaver sees him as the vet leader/key player on this team so I'm not sure if he's even on the market. Edited June 25, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, NYLion said: They don't have to go big in free agency or trade but they need some quality vets, more Bogey types but ones that play defense and are younger. Bruce Brown is a young vet that shouldn't break the bank. Correct the mistake of letting him go in the first place and bring him in. I think the Pistons are beyond the "sin eating" stage although I wonder if taking on somebody like Tim Hardaway Jr. might be of interest if Dallas wants to chase a big fish. The absolute worst thing you can do is sign a marginal role player like Brown right after he wins a title. That dude is about to get overpaid in a big way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 I keep having visions of Duren grabbing the defensive board. Outlet to Cade who pushes it up the middle of the floor with Ivey and Ausar running both wings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Weaver also said he's not "breaking the bank" so we're looking at lesser lights: Not Cam Johnson. Maybe Jalen McDaniels? I don't know how much Brown might get but if it's not "breaking the bank" then I would say he would be a good candidate... Although I think we need more frontcourt (SF/ PF) help than guard help. I can't see us signing Brown on that basis alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 36 minutes ago, Deleterious said: The absolute worst thing you can do is sign a marginal role player like Brown right after he wins a title. That dude is about to get overpaid in a big way. I like Brown, but yeah, it’s easy to see how might get overpaid given the ring and the lack of free agents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 Like JEIII just said. This is probably about what Stew will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 Huge pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betrayer Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 16 hours ago, NYLion said: We've talked about this before but he's the only Piston outside of Burks that can shoot at a high level. Unless they play on bringing in a shooter in free agency, they kind of have to keep him. Plus, by all accounts, Weaver sees him as the vet leader/key player on this team so I'm not sure if he's even on the market. You can do both. Move him to maximize the value of that asset and bring in vets that can shoot and will also play defense. We've got a list of them above who are free agents and there are more you can find in trades. Sitting on this asset would be a bad move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 Sounds like Beilein will not be retained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 Ausar was in Houston today for his brothers press conference. Nice of Houston and Detroit to stagger them so both could attend. I just realized for their entire career we are going to hear how unhappy Ausar is and wants to force a trade to Houston to play with his brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 26 minutes ago, Deleterious said: Sounds like Beilein will not be retained. michigan will take him. still cant understand why he wanted to go to the nba. everybody told him it would be different dealing with nba players and he found out the hard way. when the players dont like you, youre toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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