2023 NCAA Football Thread

[buddha]

the "harm" in the hazing is being massively overblown by a society that treats everything that happens to you as some sort of "trauma."  all these dudes who were 1000% fine yesterday are now lawyering up and claiming their lives have been altered forever because they had to do naked pushups.  

as for harbaugh, its the definition of a "nothingburger", in more ways than one and if it were any coach other than harbaugh, both g2 and bonghit would agree.

harbaugh is a weird cat.  but in this case the punishment does not fit the crime.  you've thrown a guy in jail for jaywalking.

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, buddha said:

the "harm" in the hazing is being massively overblown by a society that treats everything that happens to you as some sort of "trauma."  all these dudes who were 1000% fine yesterday are now lawyering up and claiming their lives have been altered forever because they had to do naked pushups.  

as for harbaugh, its the definition of a "nothingburger", in more ways than one and if it were any coach other than harbaugh, both g2 and bonghit would agree.

harbaugh is a weird cat.  but in this case the punishment does not fit the crime.  you've thrown a guy in jail for jaywalking.

Doesn't matter what you think of the rules - for sure a lot of them are dumb, but both these guys broke them in ways they  knew/had to know were going to be unacceptable so no excuse for either of them.

Hazing is out - period. Everyone knows/should know that by now. You can't spend 10 min at a US University and not understand that.  Impeding, obstructing investigators will get you hammered under any and every enforcement regime. In Harbaugh's case it may be true that the NCAA is a joke 24 hr/day, but he was still a fool to thumb his nose at them unnecessarily as long as he was still subject to their decisions.

Won't hurt Harbaugh though, part of his appeal is his weirdness/windmill tilting

Edited August 10, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

the "harm" in the hazing is being massively overblown by a society that treats everything that happens to you as some sort of "trauma."  all these dudes who were 1000% fine yesterday are now lawyering up and claiming their lives have been altered forever because they had to do naked pushups.  

as for harbaugh, its the definition of a "nothingburger", in more ways than one and if it were any coach other than harbaugh, both g2 and bonghit would agree.

harbaugh is a weird cat.  but in this case the punishment does not fit the crime.  you've thrown a guy in jail for jaywalking.

You continue to get this wrong.  

He’s not being punished for jaywalking.  He was stopped for jaywalking and would’ve gotten a $50 ticket that he should’ve paid and ended it all and  gone on with his life.  Instead, he and chose to repeatedly lie to the cop and argue with him to the point that he got charged with a more serious crime.   

I will agree with that no other coach would get this penalty.  They all would’ve taken the minor infraction with no penalty instead of being a stubborn ass and turning a nothingburger into a 4 game suspension and all for something that nobody including yourself denies that he did.  

[buddha]

13 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

You continue to get this wrong.  

He’s not being punished for jaywalking.  He was stopped for jaywalking and would’ve gotten a $50 ticket that he should’ve paid and ended it all and  gone on with his life.  Instead, he and chose to repeatedly lie to the cop and argue with him to the point that he got charged with a more serious crime.   

I will agree with that no other coach would get this penalty.  They all would’ve taken the minor infraction with no penalty instead of being a stubborn ass and turning a nothingburger into a 4 game suspension and all for something that nobody including yourself denies that he did.  

he got charged with contempt of cop because he said he didnt jaywalk.

that's what youre arguing.  which is fine.  but the only reason youre arguing it is because youre trolling about harbaugh.  any other coach and you would say its ridiculous.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Doesn't matter what you think of the rules - for sure a lot of them are dumb, but both these guys broke them in ways they  knew/had to know were going to be unacceptable so no excuse for either of them.

Hazing is out - period. Everyone knows/should know that by now. You can't spend 10 min at a US University and not understand that.  Impeding, obstructing investigators will get you hammered under any and every enforcement regime. In Harbaugh's case it may be true that the NCAA is a joke 24 hr/day, but he was still a fool to thumb his nose at them unnecessarily as long as he was still subject to their decisions.

Won't hurt Harbaugh though, part of his appeal is his weirdness/windmill tilting

it does matter to me what i think about the rules.  it doesnt matter to society as a whole obviously.  

i have a different perspective as someone who deals regularly with the grievance money making machine.  ymmv.

[gehringer_2]

50 minutes ago, buddha said:

it does matter to me what i think about the rules.

👍

[buddha]

13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

👍

i dont know what that means, but i'm going to assume it signifies your complete agreement with my thoughts.  🙂

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont know what that means, but i'm going to assume it signifies your complete agreement with my thoughts.  🙂

QFT.

If what we think didn't matter to us, none of us would be here!

Edited August 10, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Deleterious]

 

[buddha]

play it in the rose bowl you corporate shills!

[MichiganCardinal]

Vegas makes no sense at all geographically. USC is closest and they’re still 270 miles from Vegas. Ann Arbor is closer to Lucas Oil.

[romad1]

6 hours ago, Deleterious said:

 

Also, Vatican to open waffle house.   And...[insert sacred site de-sanctified by gross money grab metaphor]

[casimir]

UCLA’s Chip Kelly points to Notre Dame football as an example for realignment

Quote

“I’m fired up for the Big Eighteen,” UCLA coach Chip Kelly cracked Tuesday.

That makes one of us.

Quote

“Notre Dame is an independent in football, but they’re in a conference for everything else,” Kelly said, alluding to the Fighting Irish’s other sports primarily playing in the Atlantic Coast Conference. “Why aren’t we all independent for football? Take the 64 teams in Power Five and make that one division, take the 64 teams in Group of Five, make that another division. We play for a championship, they play for a championship and no one else gets affected.

I kind of like this idea.  I don't know if 64 is the right number.  I honestly don't know what that number should be.  And maybe that is left up to the individual schools.  If Toledo wants to dance with the big group, so be it.  If they want to remain with the latter half, fine.  There will be pros and cons to either decision.

Everyone becomes independent, and then conference championships go away.  But, those can be replaced by playoff games.  Now you can go a full field of 16, although I don't know how the TV scheduling for those games get handled.  2 Friday night games, 6 Saturday games?  And the time slotting is similar to what the NCAA BB tourney does?  So, say a 7pm and 9pm game on Friday?  11a, 1p, 3p, 5p, 7p, 9p on Saturday?  Avoid Sunday and the NFL.

As far as regular season scheduling goes, they could go with a mix of contractual team vs team agreements and random home & homes assigned by whatever governing body is berthed out of this to fill out 12 regular season games.  If that means Alabama vs Toledo in a home & home, let's do it.  Nick Saban can have a homecoming.

And as far as qualifying for the playoffs, you go with a BcS type computer system rewarding teams on a spectrum for better wins and punishing them for horrid losses with marginal wins/losses in between.  And, yes, add variable components for road wins and home losses.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

UCLA’s Chip Kelly points to Notre Dame football as an example for realignment

That makes one of us.

I kind of like this idea.  I don't know if 64 is the right number. 

Yeah - i'd guess it's half that many. But it all depends on how income distribution to players shakes out and I don't think we know that yet. And a few things have to change. 1st, NIL as a concept has to go - it's a nonsensical because the real money players generate is in tickets and media, but NIL only allows them to be compensated by people who do not get media and ticket revenue. That's a fundamental mismatch that is unworkable long term. They set up system where it is inevitable that ticket and media income is going to be illicitly diverted to NIL payers. Get rid of NIL and put the payments above board or it's a disaster in the making.

And of course Congress could also force the athletes back into amateur status - or some as yet un-imagined intermediate status. That's seems unlikely but you never know. That could put everyone back at square one or some other as yet totally unknown square. 

But assuming that some system emerges where players actually get a meaningful chunk of the total income generated (CA legislative model) then the equation is forced back to market considerations and I can't see how you don't end up with teams allotted more or less along media market lines just like every other pro sport model. And that would be less than 40.

Edited August 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

the saudis will come in and bankroll the new league, the schools will break away from the ncaa for football.  30-40 teams.  the rest will get some form of payments from the new league.  players will be in the other schools and - if good enough - transfer to the schools in the new league.

it will be professional.  like the english championship league (not the champions league, but rather the second division of english football).  players will unionize and collectively bargain, they'll get a salary cap.

we'll see if it remains as popular once it becomes less and less associated with the colleges themselves.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

we'll see if it remains as popular once it becomes less and less associated with the colleges themselves.

this is one good question. How do you keep the athletes "in" school at all once they are paid to be professional athletes - even given how tenuous the definition of "in" might become?  Slippery slope to a professional league where the basis of the link to the college just atrophies away? They will come up with something but it may look a lot different.

Edited August 11, 2023 by gehringer_2

[casimir]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

the saudis will come in and bankroll the new league, the schools will break away from the ncaa for football.  30-40 teams.  the rest will get some form of payments from the new league.  players will be in the other schools and - if good enough - transfer to the schools in the new league.

it will be professional.  like the english championship league (not the champions league, but rather the second division of english football).  players will unionize and collectively bargain, they'll get a salary cap.

we'll see if it remains as popular once it becomes less and less associated with the colleges themselves.

Let’s just call them minor teams rather than colleges.

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, casimir said:

Let’s just call them minor teams rather than colleges.

Well, I know Buddha thinks I'm crazy when I mention things like this, but is there some kind of limit on the operating mandate of a US college or University?  Is there some point where the connection is so tenuous and so unattached to their core mission they walk away from what left of their involvement? Or maybe it just becomes a licensing, sponsorship and a stadium rental relationship and the team is an otherwise free standing business of its own?

Truth is, the more I think about it, the more I think Congress will undo enough of what the NIL court rulings did to allow something pretty much like the current system to survive another generation.

[Motor City Sonics]

Won't the Big Ten West just almost be the Pac 10 now (sort of).    I do think the Big 10 will bring in Stanford and Cal, they're just hesitating to maybe get them to take less. 

 

East -   Rutgers - Maryland - Penn State - Ohio State - Michigan - Michigan State - Indiana - Purdue - Illinois - Northwestern

West -   Wisconsin - Minnesota - Iowa - Nebraska - USC - UCLA - Cal - Stanford - Washington - Oregon

9 Division Games

2 Non Conference games (so your CMUs and Bowling Greens can make some money)

Top 2 teams in each conference make the playoff.   The 2nd place West takes on the 1st place East and vice versa.  The Winners play in the Big Tens championship

 

 

[casimir]

32 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Won't the Big Ten West just almost be the Pac 10 now (sort of).    I do think the Big 10 will bring in Stanford and Cal, they're just hesitating to maybe get them to take less. 

 

East -   Rutgers - Maryland - Penn State - Ohio State - Michigan - Michigan State - Indiana - Purdue - Illinois - Northwestern

West -   Wisconsin - Minnesota - Iowa - Nebraska - USC - UCLA - Cal - Stanford - Washington - Oregon

9 Division Games

2 Non Conference games (so your CMUs and Bowling Greens can make some money)

Top 2 teams in each conference make the playoff.   The 2nd place West takes on the 1st place East and vice versa.  The Winners play in the Big Tens championship.  

 

 

Nah, just do away with divisions.  This guarantees the two top conference records make the championship game, that should be the goal of the championship game.  

[casimir]

On 8/10/2023 at 7:32 PM, romad1 said:

Also, Vatican to open waffle house.   And...[insert sacred site de-sanctified by gross money grab metaphor]

Whatever makes sense for the student athletes.

[Hongbit]

On 8/10/2023 at 5:03 PM, MichiganCardinal said:

Vegas makes no sense at all geographically. USC is closest and they’re still 270 miles from Vegas. Ann Arbor is closer to Lucas Oil.

I’m of the belief that Geography doesn’t matter.  Vegas always makes sense for a big sporting event.   People will travel to Vegas for an event they may not have otherwise in a different city.  It’s worked for years with trade shows.

[Hongbit]

3 hours ago, casimir said:

Nah, just do away with divisions.  This guarantees the two top conference records make the championship game, that should be the goal of the championship game.  

My thoughts too.  Scrap the entire concept of divisions and come up with something new.   This is a brand new world with massive conferences and the same old way of doing things won’t work.  

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

My thoughts too.  Scrap the entire concept of divisions and come up with something new.   This is a brand new world with massive conferences and the same old way of doing things won’t work.  

Yes.  There has been much criticism about the Big Ten West the past few seasons.  Why keep it going forward?  Adding USC and Oregon to the west does strengthen that subset of teams, but why risk cutting out an obvious #2 seed from the championship game because of geography?

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

I’m of the belief that Geography doesn’t matter.  Vegas always makes sense for a big sporting event.   People will travel to Vegas for an event they may not have otherwise in a different city.  It’s worked for years with trade shows.

Depends on who is playing. They’ll travel for Michigan-USC or Ohio State-Oregon. Probably not so much for Penn State-Purdue. The Wisconsin-Nebraska Championship ten years ago game had well less than a capacity crowd at Lucas Oil. I doubt those fans will travel to Allegiant Stadium and fill those seats.