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Dem implosion


ewsieg
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1 year off of the Biden win, the Dems are fighting each other and Biden doesn't appear to want to get involved from an executive level.  Not VA goes GOP, a major scare in NJ, and even the progressive democratic nominee for Mayor in Buffalo, running unopposed, couldn't win the election (albeit against a former democrat, and incumbent, who lost the primary).

Do those on the left here just feel it was a communication issue combined with deplorables coming out in force, or if the democrats did something wrong, what are your thoughts?  They didn't run progressive enough?   They failed to move to the center?  All of the above?

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1 minute ago, pfife said:

I think the Virginia result has very little to do with what is currently happenign in congress. 

I think you had a GOP candidate that was able to shy away from Trump and still win the primary.  That is not going to be an everyday issue next year.  He ran against a guy that from a national standpoint, played the right calls and tried to make it a referendum on Trump, just didn't work as the candidate was able to shy away from Trump publicly.

That said, if Biden was able to get his infrastructure bill pushed through, and right now instead of the divide in the dem party, along with the hijacking of the infrasctructure bill, wasn't front and center in the news, but rather a passed bill that McAullife could point to as democrats making a difference and a united communications front on the BBB bill, explaining why each of the things that Sanders wants are good things, but they are being mindful of the costs and working to ensure only best will be put in, you'd have pulled from that center group and won the election.

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25 minutes ago, pfife said:

If it's about accomplishments in congress why did the party with less accomplishments win?

 

It's all about what have you done for me lately when it comes to politics.   Additionally, accomplishments can be defined differently.  For instance, if a GOP president touts his 'accomplishment' for cutting taxes, you won't see that as a plus, you'll see more burden on the middle class while the rich evade taxes.  When you hear Biden stopped the Keystone Pipeline, I'm guessing you see that as an accomplishment.  When a year later we're dealing with high gas prices (even if you and I can understand it's not directly related), some may correlate those two things and second guess what they thought was an accomplishment before.

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6 hours ago, ewsieg said:

It's all about what have you done for me lately when it comes to politics.   Additionally, accomplishments can be defined differently.  For instance, if a GOP president touts his 'accomplishment' for cutting taxes, you won't see that as a plus, you'll see more burden on the middle class while the rich evade taxes.  When you hear Biden stopped the Keystone Pipeline, I'm guessing you see that as an accomplishment.  When a year later we're dealing with high gas prices (even if you and I can understand it's not directly related), some may correlate those two things and second guess what they thought was an accomplishment before.

what has the GOP in congress done for anyone lately?

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9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

1 year off of the Biden win, the Dems are fighting each other and Biden doesn't appear to want to get involved from an executive level.  Not VA goes GOP, a major scare in NJ, and even the progressive democratic nominee for Mayor in Buffalo, running unopposed, couldn't win the election (albeit against a former democrat, and incumbent, who lost the primary).

Do those on the left here just feel it was a communication issue combined with deplorables coming out in force, or if the democrats did something wrong, what are your thoughts?  They didn't run progressive enough?   They failed to move to the center?  All of the above?

I don't know if Biden is able to be involved.  His cognitive ability isn't 100% and someone else seems to be running the show in the background.  When he publically says he isn't allowed to do something its obvious. 

I also don't think its an implosion or even a sign of the future.  It might be a wake up call. Obviously there are some major problems right now and unhappy people. If the dems can figure out how to fix things soon the mid terms might not be all bad for them.  I think it would help if they were more moderate and could swallow their pride occasionally and say what the previous administration was doing on certain issues like the border weren't all bad.  They need to do what's right for the country and its citizens instead of some progressive wish list.

As much as I want to blame them, Its not all the democrats fault either.  Both sides need to work together which they've been incapable of doing for a decade. Unfortunately I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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30 minutes ago, Archie said:

I don't know if Biden is able to be involved.  His cognitive ability isn't 100% and someone else seems to be running the show in the background.  When he publically says he isn't allowed to do something its obvious. 

Or he acknowledges that he is constrained by laws?  

Seriously brah c'mon now

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that "president constrained by the rule of law" isn't in the consciousness of Trumpers and Republicans.

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48 minutes ago, pfife said:

Or he acknowledges that he is constrained by laws?  

Seriously brah c'mon now

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that "president constrained by the rule of law" isn't in the consciousness of Trumpers and Republicans.

Honestly, his first sentence aside, go back and read what he wrote.  I don't find it objectionable.

In terms of that first sentence, Biden is not 100%.  I'm not saying he's senile or anything, but he's clearly not at full power.  Still, I do believe he's capable of understanding the issues at hand and putting, even if I disagree with them, competent folks in charge.  So when he indicates he isn't allowed to participate, that is concerning.  While he doesn't have a defined role in legislation as POTUS, he absolutely has the right (and some would say responsibility) to lead his party.  Maybe there has been more stuff behind the scenes.  I know Sinema was at the WH a few days in a row a week or two back, but publicly there is nothing coming out of Biden and I do find that troubling.

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57 minutes ago, pfife said:

Or he acknowledges that he is constrained by laws?  

Seriously brah c'mon now

I guess I shouldn't be shocked that "president constrained by the rule of law" isn't in the consciousness of Trumpers and Republicans.

I'm refering to his press conferences or when he's in public. He's said several times he's not allowed to take questions or says he's supposed to call on certain people.  I didn't mean to do anything unlawful nor would I expect him to.

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4 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Honestly, his first sentence aside, go back and read what he wrote.  I don't find it objectionable.

In terms of that first sentence, Biden is not 100%.  I'm not saying he's senile or anything, but he's clearly not at full power.  Still, I do believe he's capable of understanding the issues at hand and putting, even if I disagree with them, competent folks in charge.  So when he indicates he isn't allowed to participate, that is concerning.  While he doesn't have a defined role in legislation as POTUS, he absolutely has the right (and some would say responsibility) to lead his party.  Maybe there has been more stuff behind the scenes.  I know Sinema was at the WH a few days in a row a week or two back, but publicly there is nothing coming out of Biden and I do find that troubling.

I agree he understands the issues but his decision making might be impaired some. Every POTUS has has several people providing info to help them make decision but in the end the final decision is ultimately the Presidents.  I don't know if that is true with Biden. The decision might be more of a committee but we probably wont know until well after he's out of office. 

After the election some people thought Harris would be making the decisions but she seems to be away from it. Some days Biden looks like he's in the game and other days not so much. From my experience that is typical with dementia until it gets bad.

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Just now, chasfh said:

Of course, Trump has his hand-picked “the best people” around him to shore up his own cognitive disabilities. 😏

Did you ever hear Trump say he didn't have the best, the greatest or the bigliest?😀 

That is until something went wrong and he passed the blame pretty quick.  I never watched the apprentice but I think the catch phrase "You're Fired" came from his personal experience.  He was quick to fire people.

 If you surround yourself with good people you would rarely have to fire anyone.  Trump had a problem, at least while POTUS, to surround himself with good people. Some were but not many.

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28 minutes ago, Archie said:

I'm refering to his press conferences or when he's in public. He's said several times he's not allowed to take questions or says he's supposed to call on certain people.  I didn't mean to do anything unlawful nor would I expect him to.

Oh I don't pay attention to press conferences, I'm not a fan of media bloviators and pressers have proven themselves to be a complete waste of my time (both in politics and sports).   If something important happens, I'll find out about it.  

There have been accusations about rigging who gets called on at least as far back as W Bush.   They accused Obama of it, Trump, etc.   It strikes me as totally unimportant.   I really don't need their questions or the answers to the questions so I couldn't care less.   

Regarding "allowed to take questions" he could just be referring to staying on a busy schedule for the day.

Honestly the only good press conference I'm aware of over the last few years was Helsinki in 2018 when it was Trump and Putin and they took 2 questions (if I remember correctly) and Jonathan Lemiere completely exposed Trump.  Someone else got Putin to say he wanted Trump to win which at the time the Republicans were lying about and saying Pooty wanted Hills to win.

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2 hours ago, Archie said:

I think it would help if they were more moderate and could swallow their pride occasionally and say what the previous administration was doing on certain issues like the border weren't all bad.  

Here is the view from the rest of the world:  under the previous administration the control of your southern border was a humanitarian catastrophe.  The callousness and cruelty were beyond comprehension.

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If the other countries were so concerned they could have shipped these people from Mexico to their country.  In the US we have laws that include how non-citzens are to enter the country. These laws are in place for a reason and should be followed. I and other American citizen pay taxes. Although I don't have a say in it  I don't want my money going to other countries or their citizens for aid until every American is taken care of first.  I also don't care what any other country thinks of us. We are the greatest country in the world with the greatest fighting forces. These other countries only want our money and our services.  

Did other countries have issue with Canada when they closed the border to the US? How inhumane it was to let us die of covid in the US!

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We didn't put your children in cages, and force separations of families which are still in effect.  That comparison is just silly.  You are comparing the nightmare of your southern border to casual tourists being denied entry into Canada. 

We have torrents of illegal immigrants here, people from third world countries who arrive in New York and make their way to the border, walking across from Vermont to Quebec.  We have to accomodate them humanely and let the legal system adjudicate their refugee claims.  

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Just now, Jim Cowan said:

We didn't put your children in cages, and force separations of families which are still in effect.  That comparison is just silly.  You are comparing the nightmare of your southern border to casual tourists being denied entry into Canada. 

We have torrents of illegal immigrants here, people from third world countries who arrive in New York and make their way to the border, walking across from Vermont to Quebec.  We have to accomodate them humanely and let the legal system adjudicate their refugee claims.  

Yep. Another Archie false equivalency 

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