5/8/24 1:10PM Tigers @ Guardians

[chasfh]

9 hours ago, holygoat said:

Who said "compete for a ring?" Not the guy you're quoting. Making moves to improve a bottom-tier offense is not a huge ask, IMO, but maybe it is for you. YMMV.

I think less than two years is just way too early to have Harris on the hot seat.

[chasfh]

16 hours ago, 1776 said:

Tarik Skubal is on this week’s Have a Seat podcast with Dickerson. 

This guy is being interviewed seemingly everywhere, and he is definitely comfortable with a mike on his lapel.

[1776]

32 minutes ago, alex said:

3) Every successful CEO/GM has to have some ability to negotiate some good trades. You do not always have to give up your best young talent to get talent in return for a position of need. We have 'some' P depth. Other teams have needs as well. It is the scouting departments job to identify potential targets - but then the GM has to be able to 'negotiate the deal' - this and the FA depart both need this ability to some extent.

This is where I am questioning can this front office can do it.

This is where I am as well. This is not to suggest that there are always opportunities to make trades to upgrade your team. I understand that. My concern is whether or not Harris is confident enough to make a move beyond trying to find a gem in the rough here and there. The “we can fix you” sell isn’t going to be a long term solution. That impresses me as his foremost game plan now in trying to improve the team. Free agency is another route and I think he’s done well with that personally. 
The old adage is that to get quality, you have to give up quality. Does Harris have the confidence in himself to make this kind of trade if the opportunity presents itself? Personally, I’m not convinced he does. If I’m understanding your comments, I think that’s where you are as well. 
Of the 1st and 2nd points you highlighted, I do believe that Harris & Company have done an excellent job of addressing. 

[1776]

27 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think less than two years is just way too early to have Harris on the hot seat.

Agreed. It took an awful lot for Avila to finally get canned. Harris is moving the team in the right direction.

[chasfh]

38 minutes ago, 1776 said:

Agreed. It took an awful lot for Avila to finally get canned. Harris is moving the team in the right direction.

I believe a key reason Avila got such a long leash from Tigers fans, and Harris is getting a way shorter one, is that Avila failed using tried and true baseball methods of scouting and drafting and roster construction, the kind we all grew up reading and learning about, which traditional fans are far more likely to forgive; whereas Harris is the first guy bringing what is considered newfangled new age thinking to Detroit, even though the better organizations started moving to such thinking as long ago as a couple of decades.

This isn't anyone here in particular, but a substantial percentage of fans are still holding out for Harris/Hinch to get ****canned and Doombrowski/Leyland to make their triumphant returns.

[Toddwert]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I believe a key reason Avila got such a long leash from Tigers fans, and Harris is getting a way shorter one, is that Avila failed using tried and true baseball methods of scouting and drafting and roster construction, the kind we all grew up reading and learning about, which traditional fans are far more likely to forgive; whereas Harris is the first guy bringing what is considered newfangled new age thinking to Detroit, even though the better organizations started moving to such thinking as long ago as a couple of decades.

This isn't anyone here in particular, but a substantial percentage of fans are still holding out for Harris/Hinch to get ****canned and Doombrowski/Leyland to make their triumphant returns.

I think a lot of people dont realize that just because Avila got canned the fan slate dosnt totally get wiped clean we still had to watch the 2019 Tigers and get our hopes up after the 2021 season we thought the Tigers had turned the corner to only be crushed by the 2022 and to give away two great players (jv and JD) for nothing so its not like we dont have fun scars that havent heal.... just point out why people may have a shorter fuse for Harris

[casimir]

27 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This isn't anyone here in particular, but a substantial percentage of fans are still holding out for Harris/Hinch to get ****canned and Doombrowski/Leyland to make their triumphant returns.

[Toddwert]

5 minutes ago, casimir said:

I mean people still what Campbell and Sparky to return

[gehringer_2]

40 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I believe a key reason Avila got such a long leash from Tigers fans, and Harris is getting a way shorter one, is that Avila failed using tried and true baseball methods

Could be. Also he was the continuation of a regime that has been successful at one point - plus you had Mike's death which was certainly a reason to give management some slack because ownership attention on the franchise was assumed to be distracted by other succession issues in Ilitch holdings. Plus Al said the right things. He talked about pretty much the same things Harris does - he just didn't execute well enough or fast enough - and that took time to transpire.

[oblong]

The years 2018-2022 all blend together for me...

[1776]

Speaking of Sparky…

This is a piece submitted by Bill Dow on vintagedetroit.com several days ago. Fun read. 
———

Begin article:

At some point nearly every kid dreams of being a bat boy for the Detroit Tigers. And for Dave Cowart, 61, a retired Ford Motor Company electrical engineer, that dream came true.

After his mother saw an article about how to become a bat boy, Cowart, then 16 and a junior in high school, wrote a heartfelt handwritten letter to Tiger clubhouse manager Jim Schmakel who invited him down to Tiger Stadium for an interview. He was hired immediately.

From 1980 to 1985 Cowart served as a clubhouse kid and bat boy along with two others which ultimately helped him pay for his college education at the University of Detroit. (Cowart’s son Cody served as a Tiger bat boy from 2015 to 2017.)

Cowart revered Tiger manager Sparky Anderson, and recently he shared stories about the beloved skipper.

“Every game the three of us working in the clubhouse were always the last to leave and Sparky would always come by and say, “there’s three of the all-time greatest,” and that really energized us to keep working hard.”

One time when Cowart had started working in the clubhouse Tiger player Ricky Peters yelled at him leaving him upset and wondering if his job was in jeopardy. When Anderson heard about it, he let Peters have it.

If you want to get a sense of Sparky Anderson’s character, the following story by Cowart says it all.

In June of 1981 Cowart’s parents were throwing a high school graduation party for him at their home in Detroit. Schmakel gave Cowart permission to leave early after the day game to attend the party.

 Later that afternoon Sparky asked Schmakel where Cowart was. When the clubhouse manager told him that he left early to attend the graduation party Sparky asked for Dave’s address.

“There I am at the party and who shows up unannounced but Sparky, and coaches Roger Craig, Billy Consolo, and **** Tracewski.  Can you believe that?” says Cowart., “Before I knew it the whole neighborhood showed up when people heard Sparky was there. He didn’t just make an appearance but stayed and signed autographs for everyone. I can still picture him drinking Altes beer with my dad. He always remembered people’s names. A few years later he sees me and my dad at a CATCH event and greets my dad by name. When my mom was in the hospital with cancer, he sent flowers and when I went to college, he gave me three of his sports jackets.”

Years later Cowart wrote Anderson a letter telling him how much he appreciated what he had done for him and what a pleasure it had been working for the manager.

“I had included my phone number and one day my phone rings and it showed ‘unknown caller.’  This voice says, ‘this is the FBI we’re looking for Dave Cowart.’ I recognized his voice and I said, ‘how are you doing Sparky?’ He said, ‘I’m glad you included your phone number because I never wrote a letter in my life.’”

During the 1984 World Championship season Cowart alternated the bat boy assignment with Dominic Nieto and Bobby Mical and always did the games when Jack Morris pitched including game 4 of the World Series when Alan Trammell hit two, two run homers.   “That game was so special for me and being the bat boy I never felt so much excitement especially greeting Trammell after he hit those homers,” says Cowart whose photo of him running back to the dugout with Trammell graced the front page of the Detroit News the following day.

When the Tigers won the World Series in game five Cowart was working inside the clubhouse that day and just before the game ended, he went into the dugout to collect the batting helmets but then got back inside the locker room as quick as he could.

“Sparky was superstitious and even though we were ahead I was not allowed to start putting stuff away until the game was over,” says Cowart. When the game ended it was like a wall of people coming at you and I was petrified. The celebration was crazy. Those players were so nice to us and it was great to see them so happy celebrating.”

A few weeks later Cowart received a phone call from Jim Schmakel telling him to come to the stadium to pick up his bonus check.

“I went up to the Tiger offices and picked it up and then got into my car, ripped it open and I was flabbergasted. I received a check for $15,000 and was so grateful that the players had voted to split up one $50,000 share for the bat boys. I used it to pay help pay for my college education.”

Dave Cowart certainly knows the 1984 meaning of “Bless you boys.” And in the same breath he would say, “Bless you Sparky.”

[kdog]

21 hours ago, chasfh said:

True, although while a team is waiting for the young core hitters to mature in the coming years, they still have to put good hitters in the lineup this year.

I agree...but he's not a solution beyond 2025.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, 1776 said:

Speaking of Sparky…

This is a piece submitted by Bill Dow on vintagedetroit.com several days ago. Fun read. 
———

Begin article:

At some point nearly every kid dreams of being a bat boy for the Detroit Tigers. And for Dave Cowart, 61, a retired Ford Motor Company electrical engineer, that dream came true.

After his mother saw an article about how to become a bat boy, Cowart, then 16 and a junior in high school, wrote a heartfelt handwritten letter to Tiger clubhouse manager Jim Schmakel who invited him down to Tiger Stadium for an interview. He was hired immediately.

From 1980 to 1985 Cowart served as a clubhouse kid and bat boy along with two others which ultimately helped him pay for his college education at the University of Detroit. (Cowart’s son Cody served as a Tiger bat boy from 2015 to 2017.)

Cowart revered Tiger manager Sparky Anderson, and recently he shared stories about the beloved skipper.

“Every game the three of us working in the clubhouse were always the last to leave and Sparky would always come by and say, “there’s three of the all-time greatest,” and that really energized us to keep working hard.”

One time when Cowart had started working in the clubhouse Tiger player Ricky Peters yelled at him leaving him upset and wondering if his job was in jeopardy. When Anderson heard about it, he let Peters have it.

If you want to get a sense of Sparky Anderson’s character, the following story by Cowart says it all.

In June of 1981 Cowart’s parents were throwing a high school graduation party for him at their home in Detroit. Schmakel gave Cowart permission to leave early after the day game to attend the party.

 Later that afternoon Sparky asked Schmakel where Cowart was. When the clubhouse manager told him that he left early to attend the graduation party Sparky asked for Dave’s address.

“There I am at the party and who shows up unannounced but Sparky, and coaches Roger Craig, Billy Consolo, and **** Tracewski.  Can you believe that?” says Cowart., “Before I knew it the whole neighborhood showed up when people heard Sparky was there. He didn’t just make an appearance but stayed and signed autographs for everyone. I can still picture him drinking Altes beer with my dad. He always remembered people’s names. A few years later he sees me and my dad at a CATCH event and greets my dad by name. When my mom was in the hospital with cancer, he sent flowers and when I went to college, he gave me three of his sports jackets.”

Years later Cowart wrote Anderson a letter telling him how much he appreciated what he had done for him and what a pleasure it had been working for the manager.

“I had included my phone number and one day my phone rings and it showed ‘unknown caller.’  This voice says, ‘this is the FBI we’re looking for Dave Cowart.’ I recognized his voice and I said, ‘how are you doing Sparky?’ He said, ‘I’m glad you included your phone number because I never wrote a letter in my life.’”

During the 1984 World Championship season Cowart alternated the bat boy assignment with Dominic Nieto and Bobby Mical and always did the games when Jack Morris pitched including game 4 of the World Series when Alan Trammell hit two, two run homers.   “That game was so special for me and being the bat boy I never felt so much excitement especially greeting Trammell after he hit those homers,” says Cowart whose photo of him running back to the dugout with Trammell graced the front page of the Detroit News the following day.

When the Tigers won the World Series in game five Cowart was working inside the clubhouse that day and just before the game ended, he went into the dugout to collect the batting helmets but then got back inside the locker room as quick as he could.

“Sparky was superstitious and even though we were ahead I was not allowed to start putting stuff away until the game was over,” says Cowart. When the game ended it was like a wall of people coming at you and I was petrified. The celebration was crazy. Those players were so nice to us and it was great to see them so happy celebrating.”

A few weeks later Cowart received a phone call from Jim Schmakel telling him to come to the stadium to pick up his bonus check.

“I went up to the Tiger offices and picked it up and then got into my car, ripped it open and I was flabbergasted. I received a check for $15,000 and was so grateful that the players had voted to split up one $50,000 share for the bat boys. I used it to pay help pay for my college education.”

Dave Cowart certainly knows the 1984 meaning of “Bless you boys.” And in the same breath he would say, “Bless you Sparky.”

There's a quote attributed to Sparky and this story justifies it... "Being nice to people is the easiest thing in the world.  It don't cost nothing"

[chasfh]

34 minutes ago, kdog said:

I agree...but he's not a solution beyond 2025.

I agree, and you may not be saying this, but just because he’s not the permanent solution to help us contend for the next half decade doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have brought him on board to help us be more competitive right now.

[SoCalTiger]

I am good with Harris and Hinch. No need for DD and Smokes. I like the direction of the team etc but I just wish the urgency was ticked up a bit. By that I mean adding a player or two on short term contracts via free agency. We could have had JD or Turner for one year as an example. They didn't need to play every day and the youngsters could have been brought along with a bit less playing time. They can be traded or just cut when the kids settle in and start hitting. 

I don't like the blanket statements like "year one is for evaluating what we have" and "this year we will struggle to hit as we provide runway for the newbies ". Both of those can be accomplished while still adding some veteran players to help us win and take some pressure off the youngsters as well. It's ok to platoon your first year in the bigs or play part time. 

We've had nice start to 2024 but look how much of it is attributed to Mark Cahna and Urshela. We could have had one or two more vets as well and still played Meadows, Keith, Wencel, Tork and Verling etc plenty.  Spend a few million each year on one year stop gap players until we don't need to. Make winning today just as important as developing for tomorrow. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

[1776]

38 minutes ago, oblong said:

There's a quote attributed to Sparky and this story justifies it... "Being nice to people is the easiest thing in the world.  It don't cost nothing"

I’m guessing you have read the book, ‘ Sparky and Me,’ by Dan Ewald. It is a must read for anyone that hasn’t. Lots of good stuff in there that wouldn’t show up anywhere else.

[oblong]

31 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I’m guessing you have read the book, ‘ Sparky and Me,’ by Dan Ewald. It is a must read for anyone that hasn’t. Lots of good stuff in there that wouldn’t show up anywhere else.

it's on my shelf

[Tigeraholic1]

.

 

Edited May 10 by Tigeraholic1
I'm a rube.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

I am good with Harris and Hinch. No need for DD and Smokes. I like the direction of the team etc but I just wish the urgency was ticked up a bit. By that I mean adding a player or two on short term contracts via free agency. We could have had JD or Turner for one year as an example. They didn't need to play every day and the youngsters could have been brought along with a bit less playing time. They can be traded or just cut when the kids settle in and start hitting. 

I don't like the blanket statements like "year one is for evaluating what we have" and "this year we will struggle to hit as we provide runway for the newbies ". Both of those can be accomplished while still adding some veteran players to help us win and take some pressure off the youngsters as well. It's ok to platoon your first year in the bigs or play part time. 

We've had nice start to 2024 but look how much of it is attributed to Mark Cahna and Urshela. We could have had one or two more vets as well and still played Meadows, Keith, Wencel, Tork and Verling etc plenty.  Spend a few million each year on one year stop gap players until we don't need to. Make winning today just as important as developing for tomorrow. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I'm not sure where Martinez or Turner would have fit on this roster.  I think they needed a 3B and another RHH OF (preferably CF).  They were pretty much elsewhere heading into camp, whether or not the options were liked (see, Baez).  I'm not sure Turner would have worked out defensively at 3B and Martinez is probably only a DH at this point.

I was interested in Matt Chapman on a shorter deal despite his cascading offense last season.  He's at .211/.261/.340 so far, so perhaps the downfall is more career trajectory rather than blip on the radar?

Edited May 10 by casimir

[casimir]

20 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

This might look better in the correct game thread, rookie.

🤣

Edited May 10 by casimir

[Tigeraholic1]

20 minutes ago, casimir said:

This might look better in the correct game thread, rookie.

🤣

 

[Toddwert]

2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

I am good with Harris and Hinch. No need for DD and Smokes. I like the direction of the team etc but I just wish the urgency was ticked up a bit. By that I mean adding a player or two on short term contracts via free agency. We could have had JD or Turner for one year as an example. They didn't need to play every day and the youngsters could have been brought along with a bit less playing time. They can be traded or just cut when the kids settle in and start hitting. 

I don't like the blanket statements like "year one is for evaluating what we have" and "this year we will struggle to hit as we provide runway for the newbies ". Both of those can be accomplished while still adding some veteran players to help us win and take some pressure off the youngsters as well. It's ok to platoon your first year in the bigs or play part time. 

We've had nice start to 2024 but look how much of it is attributed to Mark Cahna and Urshela. We could have had one or two more vets as well and still played Meadows, Keith, Wencel, Tork and Verling etc plenty.  Spend a few million each year on one year stop gap players until we don't need to. Make winning today just as important as developing for tomorrow. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

agreed there seems to be an all or nothing approach with Harris .. you can have  a few vets sprinkled in with the young gus and maybe soften the struggles a little bit they all dont need to play everyday out of the gate 

Edited May 10 by Toddwert

[1776]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I was interested in Matt Chapman on a shorter deal despite his cascading offense last season.  He's at .211/.261/.340 so far, so perhaps the downfall is more career trajectory rather than blip on the radar?

At one point this past week Matt Chapman lead the major leagues in errors! His glove was suppose to be the rock solid piece of deal. He has been a total disappointment to date. 
All three high profile free agent signings (Chapman/Soler/Snell)  in SF have been total flops thus far. 

[SoCalTiger]

9 hours ago, casimir said:

I'm not sure where Martinez or Turner would have fit on this roster.  I think they needed a 3B and another RHH OF (preferably CF).  They were pretty much elsewhere heading into camp, whether or not the options were liked (see, Baez).  I'm not sure Turner would have worked out defensively at 3B and Martinez is probably only a DH at this point.

I was interested in Matt Chapman on a shorter deal despite his cascading offense last season.  He's at .211/.261/.340 so far, so perhaps the downfall is more career trajectory rather than blip on the radar?

The players were listed as examples and yes Chapman on short deal as well. 

[alex]

18 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

...We've had nice start to 2024 but look how much of it is attributed to Mark Cahna and Urshela. We could have had one or two more vets as well and still played Meadows, Keith, Wencel, Tork and Verling etc plenty.  Spend a few million each year on one year stop gap players until we don't need to. Make winning today just as important as developing for tomorrow. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I agree and well put - They do NOT have to be mutually exclusive.