Dan Campbell and Coaching Staff Discussion Thread

[Mr.TaterSalad]

One year in we're already looking at replacing our OC? YIKES!

[RedRamage]

I fully expect this to be a calm, logical, rational place for discussion.

[Hongbit]

I love Dan Campbell, the man
I’d like Dan Campbell, TE Coach
I’m meh on Dan Campbell, OC 
I don’t like Dan Campbell, Head Coach

 

 

[KL2]

I don't know why Lynn is suprising. An OC who loses the ability to call plays is basically a dead man walking. 

[Jason_R]

On 12/3/2021 at 1:39 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

One year in we're already looking at replacing our OC? YIKES!

Seriously? The guy was a head coach last year who was 50/50 to get retained or get fired. An OC role is a backward step for him.

Nobody paying attention would or should have expected that Lynn was any more than a one year stopgap coach to help stabilize Campbell before going to his next stop. When he (according to rumors) started butting heads with the QB — and getting bad results with him — he became expendable to Campbell. 

Also, note that Goff, under Campbell, has actually looked average and not awful like he did when Lynn was calling plays. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Jason_R

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

Also, note that Goff, under Campbell, has actually looked average and not awful like he did when Lynn was calling plays. 

we saw both good and terrible Goff in multiple turns in the course of one game today, so who knows how much who is calling the plays has to do with whatever make him tick or lose time.

Edited December 6, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

goff is awful no matter who is calling plays.  they won that game because zimmer turned off the pressure and played prevent, rushing three on a qb who couldnt handle any kind of pressure at all.

thanks mike zimmer.  you just got yourself fired after this season.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

they won that game because zimmer turned off the pressure and played prevent,

For the Vikes this was like the Ravens game was for the Lions. The idea this Lions offense would go 75 in 1:50 with no time outs was probably as hard to take seriously as the chance of someone hitting a 66yd FG.

[djhutch]

9 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Nobody paying attention would or should have expected that Lynn was any more than a one year stopgap coach to help stabilize Campbell before going to his next stop. When he (according to rumors) started butting heads with the QB — and getting bad results with him — he became expendable to Campbell.

As I mentioned in the game thread, I think Campbell took over the play calling for one reason only - to build Goff's confidence.  I had heard nothing about rumors of butting heads, but that would lend credence to my theory, I believe.  Sean McVay was notorious for calling Goff out on the field & off.  His confidence is shattered.  His ability may or may not be enough to take the Lions places in the coming years, but you play the cards you're dealt. Campbell, as I see it, is trying to make the best of the situation by building up Goff's confidence - the anti-McVay approach.

I have my doubts that Goff will ever be good enough - but as a leader it makes sense for Campbell to try do bring out his best in his QB, even if it means taking over an area that is not his strong suit.

[Motown Bombers]

If Campbell doesn't publicly shame Goff, that means the Lions love Goff and they will never win and same old Lions. 

[sabretooth]

5 minutes ago, djhutch said:

As I mentioned in the game thread, I think Campbell took over the play calling for one reason only - to build Goff's confidence.  I had heard nothing about rumors of butting heads, but that would lend credence to my theory, I believe.  Sean McVay was notorious for calling Goff out on the field & off.  His confidence is shattered.  His ability may or may not be enough to take the Lions places in the coming years, but you play the cards you're dealt. Campbell, as I see it, is trying to make the best of the situation by building up Goff's confidence - the anti-McVay approach.

I have my doubts that Goff will ever be good enough - but as a leader it makes sense for Campbell to try do bring out his best in his QB, even if it means taking over an area that is not his strong suit.

I think this is probably the most accurate read of the situation that I've heard.

[Motown Bombers]

McVay gives me some Patricia vibes. If the Rams don't win a playoff game, does he throw Stafford under the bus? Those two have high expectations and I have to imagine McVay's seat will heat up if they don't win a playoff game. 

[NYLion]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

McVay gives me some Patricia vibes. If the Rams don't win a playoff game, does he throw Stafford under the bus? Those two have high expectations and I have to imagine McVay's seat will heat up if they don't win a playoff game. 

So he's like Matt Patricia, only successful.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, NYLion said:

So he's like Matt Patricia, only successful.

Exactly. 

[RedRamage]

19 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If Campbell doesn't publicly shame Goff, that means the Lions love Goff and they will never win and same old Lions. 

Not sure if this is supposed to be sarcasm or not...

[Mr.TaterSalad]

10 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Seriously? The guy was a head coach last year who was 50/50 to get retained or get fired. An OC role is a backward step for him.

Nobody paying attention would or should have expected that Lynn was any more than a one year stopgap coach to help stabilize Campbell before going to his next stop. When he (according to rumors) started butting heads with the QB — and getting bad results with him — he became expendable to Campbell. 

Also, note that Goff, under Campbell, has actually looked average and not awful like he did when Lynn was calling plays. 

Lynn got fired and needs to rebuild his resume and he came here to do it. I don't think he was a "stopgap" OC, I think he was a guy looking to spend a few years in an organization to rebuild his image and get his job back. I think it reflects poorly on Campbell that the guy he chose as his OC has already lost playcalling abilities. If Campbell lost faith in Lynn this quickly, it makes you wonder why he bothered to hire him in the first place.

[RedRamage]

Personally I'm treating Campbell as a rookie.  Just like a rookie player I expect to see some mistakes his first year.  I also hope to see some growth and some potential... some reason to get excited about the future of the man.  I don't call a player a bust after one season, so I'm not going to call Campbell a bust after one season.

I think it's very fair to call out Campbell errors.  I do think that he's made mistakes with game management and play calling.  I do think that he needs to get better in those area.

But I think it's also fair to say that we expect him to be a work in progress and while we don't like or accept the mistakes, but understand that they will happen and it's part of the growth process of any rookie.  

Personally I'm happy with some things about Campbell. The team is certainly playing very hard for him. He seems to have a good attitude and I think that shows in how the team plays. I like how the run game seems to have improved dramatically under his leadership. I'm also unhappy with somethings.  I think clock management needs to be improved and I think play calling isn't a strong suit for him right now. 

Again, I'm not ready to call Campbell a bust right now.  I consider him a rookie who will make rookie mistakes and needs to grow.  I'm hopeful that we see progress next year and I think we should keep him for another year.  If we see no growth/improvement next year, then we can start talking about whether he's a bust or not.

[Motown Bombers]

Clock management is like a buzzword. The double timeout thing was bad, but by and large the clock management has been good. There has even been a study done this year, prior to the double timeout, that showed Campbell was one of the best at managing timeouts. 

[RedRamage]

Do you have a link to that study? I'd be interested in checking it out.

 

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, RedRamage said:

Do you have a link to that study? I'd be interested in checking it out.

 

I've posted it before. It's as of week 9.

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Clock management is like a buzzword. The double timeout thing was bad, but by and large the clock management has been good. There has even been a study done this year, prior to the double timeout, that showed Campbell was one of the best at managing timeouts. 

I still don't know how much you can hang the double TO on Campbell when Glenn was screaming for it. You either trust your head coordinator or you don't.

[sabretooth]

That study focuses on whether teams waste TOs or not.  Campbell, by those numbers, did not generally waste TOs through game 9 as much as others.  

Whether he is good/poor/average on managing end of game situations goes well beyond the question of whether he wastes time outs generally.

Edited December 6, 2021 by sabretooth

[Motown Bombers]

19 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

That study focuses on whether teams waste TOs or not.  Campbell, by those numbers, did not generally waste TOs through game 9 as much as others.  

Whether he is good/poor/average on managing end of game situations goes well beyond the question of whether he wastes time outs generally.

It provides at least some sort of analysis to clock management than just fans ranting that Campbell is horrible at clock management. 

[sabretooth]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

It provides at least some sort of analysis to clock management than just fans ranting that Campbell is horrible at clock management. 

I would like to see a more focused look at end of game management, including TOs...but yeah this study at least suggests that Campbell and crew have a generally effective approach to TO utilization.

[Jason_R]

9 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Lynn got fired and needs to rebuild his resume and he came here to do it. I don't think he was a "stopgap" OC, I think he was a guy looking to spend a few years in an organization to rebuild his image and get his job back. I think it reflects poorly on Campbell that the guy he chose as his OC has already lost playcalling abilities. If Campbell lost faith in Lynn this quickly, it makes you wonder why he bothered to hire him in the first place.

It reflects poorly on Lynn that his playcalling duties were taken away. Did he not honor Campbell’s demands about running the ball? Did he get off on the wrong foot with Goff? 

It also reflects well on Campbell that Lynn got outscored by an average of over 11 ppg as a play caller but under Campbell they have been outscored by a total of only two points in four games (0.5 ppg)… and in one of those games the team started David Blough. There is no comparison, and no Campbell should not give back playcalling duties  That is literally crazy talk  

Yeah Lynn came here to rehabilitate himself but went off the reservation. Maybe he was calling games for his own interests and not according to Campbell’s orders. He got himself demoted as a result and now he’ll have to take a HC job in college if he wants that role again.