Dan Campbell and Coaching Staff Discussion Thread

[RedRamage]

On 12/9/2021 at 12:54 PM, sabretooth said:

It all comes down to talent, ultimately, something the Lions don't have.

My reasoning for wanting Campbell to give up the playcalling responsibilities is this: unless the HC is an uncommonly talented offensive mind and play caller, he should hire an OC who is really good at it.

Campbell doesn't seem uncommonly talented at playcalling. 

I think we as Lions fans especially have witnessed first hand that being a good OC or DC does not automatically translate into being a good HC.  Logically, the reverse is also true.  There are skills that one position needs that are different than what another position needs.

I think a person could be a wildly successful HC without being a good coordinator.

[Jason_R]

7 hours ago, RedRamage said:

That's poor logic. If the guy before you was only successful 1% of the time so you replaced him and you're successful 3% of the time, that's not a significant improvement and you should absolute try to find someone better.  Just because you're marginally better than the previous option doesn't mean you're automatically good.

The realistic options this season are give the playcalling back to Lynn or let Campbell keep it. 

A bunch of people are knee jerk saying Campbell should give the play calling back. And yet the offense is working better with him calling the plays. Him retaining the playcalling is not a hard decision, and it shouldn’t be controversial to anyone paying attention. 

Next season is another story. I would prefer for him not to call plays because he still has a lot to learn. But if Campbell ends up calling the plays next season, he won’t be the only NFL head coach to do so. 

PS: If you are going to accuse someone of “poor logic,” don’t make up fake stats out of thin air to try to illustrate your point. A stunt like that only has a 4% chance of not looking hacky. 

[sagnam]

There is another option

https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/duce-staley-philadelphia-eagles-coach-running-backs-doug-pederson-nick-sirianni-jeffrey-lurie-20210124.html

 

Quote

and interviewed to become offensive coordinator in 2018. When Staley turned down the job because he wouldn’t be calling plays, the team gave him the title of assistant head coach.

 

[sagnam]

Staley has been coaching for 17 years and was trying to work his way up the Eagles org but they hired a HC who calls his own plays in 2016.

[Motown Bombers]

That head coach who called his own plays won a Super Bowl. 

17 years ago Staley was in the middle of his NFL career. 

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

That head coach who called his own plays won a Super Bowl. 

17 years ago Staley was in the middle of his NFL career. 

Cowher? I think I can picture him holding a playlist in front of him. Bill Walsh also maybe.

[sagnam]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

That head coach who called his own plays won a Super Bowl. 

17 years ago Staley was in the middle of his NFL career. 

Yep, the 17 was with the org, 10 as a coach.  My mistake.  The reference to playcalling wasn't a critique of the HC calling his own plays.  Calling plays is something Pederson had done for a couple of season before.  It was to point out that it is something that Staley had interest in previously and one would hope training in as well.  also not saying he will be good at it.  This was in response to the implication that there is no one else on the coaching staff who could possibly call plays.

Edited December 13, 2021 by sagnam

[Jason_R]

14 hours ago, sagnam said:

Yep, the 17 was with the org, 10 as a coach.  My mistake.  The reference to playcalling wasn't a critique of the HC calling his own plays.  Calling plays is something Pederson had done for a couple of season before.  It was to point out that it is something that Staley had interest in previously and one would hope training in as well.  also not saying he will be good at it.  This was in response to the implication that there is no one else on the coaching staff who could possibly call plays.

It is not a realistic option for Campbell to take away play calling from Lynn then give it to another coach during the same season. This would create chaos among the coaching staff.

As it is, Campbell decided that Lynn was not getting it done and took the job himself. Lynn may not like it, but at least Campbell was decisive. Lynn will keep his mouth shut so as not to get painted as selfish and hinder his job search. But if Campbell were to give play calling to someone else this season, every guy on the staff who thinks he should be calling plays would be lobbying for the role, and leaking to the media about the other guys. OMG it would be a massive disaster. It is worth noting that right now even Lynn is not bitching to the press. The most he has said is that he doesn't like it. That's it. There is dissension in a 1-11-1 locker room. This must be some kind of a record. And it is precisely because Campbell has NOT followed the advice of this board.

And anyway, it is likely that Campbell took play calling because he wants to work closely with Goff to see what he can do and what he can't do. With Lynn or another OC in the middle, Campbell is not going to get immediate feedback from Goff. Now, they will watch tape together and Goff will tell Campbell why something worked or why it didn't, and it won't be Lynn or someone else saying the plays are great but Goff sucks.

[gehringer_2]

23 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Now, they will watch tape together and Goff will tell Campbell why something worked or why it didn't, and it won't be Lynn or someone else saying the plays are great but Goff sucks.

interesting point

[Jason_R]

33 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

interesting point

Thank you. Campbell knows he has Goff for this season and next. He also knows Goff took a team to a Super Bowl... or maybe a team took Goff to the Super Bowl, but at least Goff held up his end of the bargain.

Campbell needs to figure out whether they have to spend draft capital on a QB or whether they can get away with using their 1sts on defensive difference makers. He can't afford to have that assessment clouded by an OC that is working his own agenda.

[Hongbit]

This franchise needs to keep doing exactly what they are doing.   It may be painful but a 2 year tank is really what was needed to tear down to the studs and start with a new foundation.  Not only was Goff necessary for the extra picks but he’s proven to be the ideal QB for a team needing to lose.    Dan Campbell is from the same cloth.   Great attitude to keep guys motivated .  The players absolutely love losing for him.  His lack of acumen just about everywhere else as a head coach also plays right into the tank.  
 

 All of this will fall on Holmes but so far his returns have been solid through one draft.  He’s also done great finding street free agents.   They don’t need to suck worse next year but landing with a top 5 pick and picking up a stud in a better crop of QBs would set this franchise up to become a contender.    It is going to be amazingly hard to be a fan of this again next season but we’re Lions fans so we can handle.  I really think they are only 2 years from being a franchise that is in the playoffs every year.   

Edited December 13, 2021 by Hongbit

[Motown Bombers]

Not sure what this data is being pulled from, but interesting. 

 

[Cartman]

[RedRamage]

So, now that the season is done, what grade would you guys give Dan Campbell?

For me it's a solid B.  This grade is takes into account that this is a rookie season for the guy and I expect rookie mistakes.  It also takes into account that he didn't have a great team to work with.

I think over all he has a positive impact on the team.  The players seem to obviously love playing for him and tried hard every game.  For the most part the Lions fought hard and were not blown out regularly.

That's not to say that everything was good. Campbell gets a bit of a negative mark for hiring Lynn who didn't work out, but this is offset by his ability to see that it wasn't working and taking over mid season.  From my armchair and using my vast experience and knowledge of coaching, I thought he made some questionable calls and wasn't great with time management, especially early.  But I also thought he improved on that as the season progressed... especially in the 4th down area.

I like the direct of the team... I like the aggressiveness on offense... I like how well the defense played given how injury riddled they were all year long.  There's no question in my mind that the players are behind him right now and that's great... but it needs to start translating into wins.

[buddha]

B/B+

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I'm going with a C+. There isn't a coach in America from Bill Belichick to Mike Tomlin to Bruce Arians who could win more than 4-5 games with this roster. This team simply lacks talent at key positions. So Campbell, like any coach, gets a pass in that regard. 

The beginning of the season was a train wreck and was as bad as 2008 under Rod Marinelli and Matt Millen. Then they capped off their poor start with the massacre in Philly where they played and looked as bad as they did all season. After the Philly game and Campbell taking over offensive play calling things seemed to turn around somewhat. I think they largely turned around because our QB got his confidence back after having it shattered for the first 9-10 weeks of the season. Once we had a serviceable starting QB with Goff's improved play, things settled down and team won a few games.

That said, if Dan Campbell was indeed the person behind hiring Anthony Lynn and giving him play calling duties, that is a drag on his resume. Lynn clearly wasn't the guy for the job and assuming Campbell hired him, that should count as a strike against him. Campbell hired the wrong guy for the job. I also question some of Campbell's own play calling decisions, notable running on 2nd and 22, 3rd and 33. Some people may knock him on the fact that he seems to vacillate between being aggressive one moment and conservative the next, but different scenarios require different approaches, and I wont knock him right now for that. 

I'm still not sold on the idea that Campbell isn't just a meathead of a coach and he needs to prove to the organization and fansbase that he can right the ship on offense and hire the right guy to be his OC. With all that said, I'm sticking with my C+ grade.

[Stanley70]

I think he at least proved he is a legit NFL head coach. He had some rookie missteps but overall he did a very good job IMO.

Probably the most encouraging thing was when he saw the offense failing under Lynn he:

1  had the stones to replace the veteran OC and not create a distraction

2  had the ability to correct the problem himself

We'll find out if he can lead a team to the playoffs and win but so far so good.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Stanley70

[Shinzaki]

I give him a solid B+... I don't know who designed the passing plays...but they do an excellent job with disguising wheel routes.  Amon ra and Swift were wide open a number of times on those because the DB's and LB's were sucked into the middle

[djhutch]

On a team that is coming off 3 years of Patricia, Campbell's first job was to rebuild them .. as players.  I think that, more than anything, led to him taking over the play-calling - to be in Goff's ear.  I think we saw the fruits of that in the last 4 games.  For that, I give him an A.

[RandyMarsh]

Im at a solid B or perhaps a B+. I give them an A post bye week but they had a couple hiccups the first half of the season that drags the overall grade down slightly. I think Campbell proved with his playcalling and analytic driven 4th down calls that he is more than just a meathead that can motivate.

[Motown Bombers]

I can see where Sean Payton rubbed off on him and this Lions offense is similar to the Saints offense. The Saints run the ball a lot and relied on two backs. Goff and Brees have a similar skillset. Brees was never a big arm QB and relied on accuracy much the way Goff does. Those Saints teams were always aggressive on both sides of the ball much like this Lions team is.  

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, djhutch said:

On a team that is coming off 3 years of Patricia, Campbell's first job was to rebuild them .. as players.  I think that, more than anything, led to him taking over the play-calling - to be in Goff's ear.  I think we saw the fruits of that in the last 4 games.  For that, I give him an A.

Definitely, they have a long way to go, but the turnaround in terms of locker room morale pushes his B into the B+/A- category.

They may have sucked, and he himself may still have some learning to do as a coach, but it's hard to recall a time when the Lions have gotten those types of efforts late in the midst of a lost season. It's raised my eyebrows a bit.

[MichiganCardinal]

B+ and recency bias has me close to an A-.

There was a large adjustment and learning curve for the coaching staff (maybe with the exception of Glenn). It took half the season for them to learn their roles, how their role works in the grand scheme of operations, and to begin excelling at them. That said, in the second half of the season, they looked like a halfway decent football team while putting out possibly the worst roster (on paper) in the NFL.

For a team who people had 0-17 thoughts about to finish 3-13-1, and to have been potentially 7-10 if not for four field goals (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and Minnesota), is remarkable. Even more remarkable were the performances against playoff teams like the Cardinals and Rams.

It wasn’t all sunshine and roses, Cincinnati and Philadelphia can tell you that. All in all though, I thought the good far outweighed the bad and I’m excited for what 2022, 2023, and beyond can bring.

[RandyMarsh]

It is the most optimistic I've been as a Lions fan in my life. Yes they are still void of talent but in the NFL you need 3 things to be a successful franchise and that's a good GM/front office, Good coaching staff and a good qb.

It seems we finally have two of those things and with our future draft capital should be in a good enough position to atleast try to get that third piece when the time comes. Whether that potential guy pans out or not is going to ultimately determine our long term success.

Edited January 12, 2022 by RandyMarsh

[TP_Fan]

On 1/11/2022 at 11:45 AM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I'm going with a C+. There isn't a coach in America from Bill Belichick to Mike Tomlin to Bruce Arians who could win more than 4-5 games with this roster. This team simply lacks talent at key positions. So Campbell, like any coach, gets a pass in that regard. 

The beginning of the season was a train wreck and was as bad as 2008 under Rod Marinelli and Matt Millen. Then they capped off their poor start with the massacre in Philly where they played and looked as bad as they did all season. After the Philly game and Campbell taking over offensive play calling things seemed to turn around somewhat. I think they largely turned around because our QB got his confidence back after having it shattered for the first 9-10 weeks of the season. Once we had a serviceable starting QB with Goff's improved play, things settled down and team won a few games.

That said, if Dan Campbell was indeed the person behind hiring Anthony Lynn and giving him play calling duties, that is a drag on his resume. Lynn clearly wasn't the guy for the job and assuming Campbell hired him, that should count as a strike against him. Campbell hired the wrong guy for the job. I also question some of Campbell's own play calling decisions, notable running on 2nd and 22, 3rd and 33. Some people may knock him on the fact that he seems to vacillate between being aggressive one moment and conservative the next, but different scenarios require different approaches, and I wont knock him right now for that. 

I'm still not sold on the idea that Campbell isn't just a meathead of a coach and he needs to prove to the organization and fansbase that he can right the ship on offense and hire the right guy to be his OC. With all that said, I'm sticking with my C+ grade.

What a horrible take.  He has already proved he isn’t the meathead people thought.