2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[Toddwert]

WTF!

[gehringer_2]

About as surprising as the Sun rising in the east. At least they didn't screw around for half a season before deciding. 

[IdahoBert]

7 hours ago, chasfh said:

OTOH, Marlins at Pirates in Pittsburgh on a weekday afternoon.

I was paying attention to that too, but at the Rockies game the seats behind home plate were totally packed, but I don’t know if they have the same thing going that the Tigers have directly behind home plate. 

[papalawrence]

Wonder if any pitcher with a 3000 spin rate has avoided TJ for an entire career?

[Tenacious D]

I don’t think Jobe’s loss is as significant for this season, besides the missed development opportunity.  He probably was good for another 60-70 innings.

Next season sucks—that was the opportunity to have he and Skubal form a potential 1-2 lethal combo.  Now Tarik needs to be resigned for that to happen.

Cobb looks increasingly unlikely to make it to Detroit.  I see a trade happening for a starting pitcher, i.e., Zach Eflin.

And as a reminder, Skubal had TJS, too.  He turned out pretty good.

 

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

Wonder if any pitcher with a 3000 spin rate has avoided TJ for an entire career?

I tend to believe that is why Mr. Skubal doesn't throw many sliders. JV had a huge spin rate on his fastball as per Brooks - but you can't really compare the old Brooks data to Statcast - different techs/methods. But spin on a fastball can be achieved without pronation, so I would argue it's significance is not directly comparable to spin on a slider even measured by the same tech.

[oblong]

He can slide in as the #1 after Skoob heads to the Mets or Dodgers.

 

[romad1]

8 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t think Jobe’s loss is as significant for this season, besides the missed development opportunity.  He probably was good for another 60-70 innings.

Next season sucks—that was the opportunity to have he and Skubal form a potential 1-2 lethal combo.  Now Tarik needs to be resigned for that to happen.

Cobb looks increasingly unlikely to make it to Detroit.  I see a trade happening for a starting pitcher, i.e., Zach Eflin.

And as a reminder, Skubal had TJS, too.  He turned out pretty good.

 

Yeah, this.  TJ doesn't mean an end of a career or that he'll be diminished afterwards.  Its a weigh station in between development for Jobe.   Many pitchers are better after. 

[chasfh]

I’m not sure I would assume Jobe is going to be better after his TJ using Skubal as a data point, but all we can do at this point is hope he will be.

[Tiger337]

I think the success rate of TJ surgery is over blown.  Most pitchers return, and can be successful, but a lot of them lack the durability and velocity they had previously.  The idea that TJ surgery makes pitchers stronger is a myth.   It's the intense rehab and change in mechanics that can sometimes make them stronger.   

[Edman85]

Starting to think that aggressively metering innings in the minors does little good.

[romad1]

I've always been a "glass-is-half-broken" guy but if he's got the support structure Jobe will have, i would be optimistic he can be what he was before and develop further.  

 

[gehringer_2]

35 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Starting to think that aggressively metering innings in the minors does little good.

The league wants to deny it but I think it tracks pretty well with hard slider usage. JV threw hard for years, no problem, he needed TJ the year after his slider usage exceeded 30%+. Max has gone longer than almost anyone without a TJ - has always keep his slider usage down (despite that he must have been tempted to use it more.) Sure there is lots of noise that makes it hard to get a strong correlation but when you look at the overall trend toward more breaking ball use, and clear mechanical logic that you must pronate to throw a slider, that's enough for me to make the assumption and say "prove it isn't true."

Edited Thursday at 12:54 PM by gehringer_2

[Shinzaki]

The success rate on elbow surgery is better than shoulders...so at least there's that.  He had a stress fracture to his spine last year...those are very hard to recover from.  I wonder if that injury created a change in his motion that put more stress on his elbow

[SoCalTiger]

It's sad that it's not surprising Jobe is having surgery. Losing our top pitching and perhaps player to season ending surgery really stinks. Team depth has never been more important. 

[Arlington]

I thought I heard that Jobe didn't need to have the ligament replaced, just braced.  It's a quicker recovery time - he could be pitching next year.  SGL had his surgery in mid-late April 2024 and he's back starting in less than 14 months.    

[Arlington]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

 

I was really surprised how little respect Hinch and the Tigers got in polling among MLB players.  They asked 100+ players which opposing managers they would and would not want to play for.  Hinch got only 4 votes.  The leader Bochy got 20.  Ten other managers received more votes than Hinch including Cora with Boston.  

They also asked about organizations and no one mentioned Detroit among the best and 2 players voted it among the worse.   The Guardians, Twins and Royals were mentioned favorably with the Guardians ranking 5th behind the Dodgers, Yankees, Braves, and Cubs.   The Tigers revival hasn't been long, but jeesh. Not only winning at all levels they often have the best team in the league.  Probably takes time to be noticed.

 

[Sports_Freak]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The league wants to deny it but I think it tracks pretty well with hard slider usage. JV threw hard for years, no problem, he needed TJ the year after his slider usage exceeded 30%+. Max has gone longer than almost anyone without a TJ - has always keep his slider usage down (despite that he must have been tempted to use it more.) Sure there is lots of noise that makes it hard to get a strong correlation but when you look at the overall trend toward more breaking ball use, and clear mechanical logic that you must pronate to throw a slider, that's enough for me to make the assumption and say "prove it isn't true."

Throwing all of those pitches, along with a pitch clock, may have something to do with it. The pitch clock has to be looked at, pitchers need recovery time after throwing too many pitches. Arm and shoulder fatigue?

[Tenacious D]

9 minutes ago, Arlington said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

 

I was really surprised how little respect Hinch and the Tigers got in polling among MLB players.  They asked 100+ players which opposing managers they would and would not want to play for.  Hinch got only 4 votes.  The leader Bochy got 20.  Ten other managers received more votes than Hinch including Cora with Boston.  

They also asked about organizations and no one mentioned Detroit among the best and 2 players voted it among the worse.   The Guardians, Twins and Royals were mentioned favorably with the Guardians ranking 5th behind the Dodgers, Yankees, Braves, and Cubs.   The Tigers revival hasn't been long, but jeesh. Not only winning at all levels they often have the best team in the league.  Probably takes time to be noticed.

 

Wonder how much, and for how long, Hinch is suffering for his past sins?

[romad1]

Have they announced who is going to the 40 man for Jobe moving to the 60 day IL?

[KL2]

20 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Have they announced who is going to the 40 man for Jobe moving to the 60 day IL?

no rush to fill that spot just to fill it

[papalawrence]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’m not sure I would assume Jobe is going to be better after his TJ using Skubal as a data point, but all we can do at this point is hope he will be.

I agree......for every Skubal example, there are also Michael Fulmer examples.

[Tigermojo]

57 minutes ago, Arlington said:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/

 

I was really surprised how little respect Hinch and the Tigers got in polling among MLB players.  They asked 100+ players which opposing managers they would and would not want to play for.  Hinch got only 4 votes.  The leader Bochy got 20.  Ten other managers received more votes than Hinch including Cora with Boston.  

They also asked about organizations and no one mentioned Detroit among the best and 2 players voted it among the worse.   The Guardians, Twins and Royals were mentioned favorably with the Guardians ranking 5th behind the Dodgers, Yankees, Braves, and Cubs.   The Tigers revival hasn't been long, but jeesh. Not only winning at all levels they often have the best team in the league.  Probably takes time to be noticed.

 

"If you want to be a part of it, then you'll come. If you don't, then we'll beat you".

[papalawrence]

4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The league wants to deny it but I think it tracks pretty well with hard slider usage. JV threw hard for years, no problem, he needed TJ the year after his slider usage exceeded 30%+. Max has gone longer than almost anyone without a TJ - has always keep his slider usage down (despite that he must have been tempted to use it more.) Sure there is lots of noise that makes it hard to get a strong correlation but when you look at the overall trend toward more breaking ball use, and clear mechanical logic that you must pronate to throw a slider, that's enough for me to make the assumption and say "prove it isn't true."

Francisco Liriano comes to mind. I saw him pitch in person several times his rookie year. His hard slider was awesome, but he threw it all time time. Tommy John the next season. Decent career after, but nothing like his rookie season. 

[ben9753]

5 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

Francisco Liriano comes to mind. I saw him pitch in person several times his rookie year. His hard slider was awesome, but he threw it all time time. Tommy John the next season. Decent career after, but nothing like his rookie season. 

In 2006, if you picked Liriano to have the better career over Verlander no one would have thought you’re crazy.