2025 Detroit Tigers General Discussion Thread

[theroundsquare]

Seems to me that a successful meme would have depicted him wearing different style vests to correspond to the differing performances

[Timmitch55]

On 8/11/2025 at 1:06 PM, HugoD said:

Now that would be something, not exactly sure what, but something.

 

13 hours ago, Graterol said:

Is there any evidence that rushing players hurts long term ability? Most of the top players make it to the majors early. Tork continued to develop in MLB. I am in favor of McGongile (not Clark) because I think he is the best of many poor options at short. I don’t think mcgonigle playing 30 games in MLB and potentially playoffs will in any way stunt his growth. No need for Clark to come up because he wouldn’t be better than existing options.

 

Merrill, Chourio, Wood, Caminero, Holliday,  Roman Anthony. That group collectively has done well at McGonigles age. Is McGonigle not that tier of prospect?

In process. Imminent.Watch. Enjoy

[papalawrence]

Harris has stated in multiple interviews that he will not promote a player out of need, only when he feels the player is developmentally ready. And he has stressed the process of developing through every phase of the farm. I don't see the top of the farm guys up with the team until next mid-season at the earliest.

[Graterol]

In related news to the mcgonigle discussion, Sweeney is below replacement. His slash line is consistent with last year, so we now have two years worth of evidence he is a replacement level SS. Why does he continue to play? 

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Graterol said:

In related news to the mcgonigle discussion, Sweeney is below replacement. His slash line is consistent with last year, so we now have two years worth of evidence he is a replacement level SS. Why does he continue to play? 

I wouldn't call 383 total MLB PA "two years worth."  It takes a lot of players at least 500 to start figuring it out. He was tearing up AAA pitching so there's nothing to see leaving him there. IDK how much more rope they will give him - depends a lot on how badly he struggles and who else is available to play SS. McK is not great glove there and with Vierling and Meadows out I want Javy in CF, not Wenceel,  but Hinch apparently doesn't agree, or at least didn't last night.

[lordstanley]

ESPN's in-season ranking of top 50 MLB players. Top 6 of Judge, Ohtani, Skubal, Raleigh, Witt Jr and Skenes. No Tiger other than Skubal made it. I thought I'd see Greene somewhere in the 40s.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45947026/mlb-rank-2025-season-update-top-50-baseball-players-judge-ohtani-skubal-raleigh

[HugoD]

20 hours ago, Graterol said:

Is there any evidence that rushing players hurts long term ability? Most of the top players make it to the majors early. Tork continued to develop in MLB. I am in favor of McGongile (not Clark) because I think he is the best of many poor options at short. I don’t think mcgonigle playing 30 games in MLB and potentially playoffs will in any way stunt his growth. No need for Clark to come up because he wouldn’t be better than existing options.

 

Merrill, Chourio, Wood, Caminero, Holliday,  Roman Anthony. That group collectively has done well at McGonigles age. Is McGonigle not that tier of prospect?

Not thinking about age really.  My thoughts are more related to the fact that McGonigle has only recently been promoted to AA ball.  I'm guessing that the organization has a reason for the advancement trajectory of player in the system.  For example, I would think that there are certain milestones that they want to see at each level, which may or may not be reflected in the traditional metrics we as outsiders look at.

[Sports_Freak]

23 hours ago, HugoD said:

I don't have a say in it, but I vote no.  To not rush those guys  - which this would be - is also a move.  I know it's been said a lot already, but Tork is an example of that type of move, and he was in AAA already.

Many players go from AA to MLB. I think it's too early for the Tigers better prospects but I've heard it said that the better players make it to the majors quickly. 

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Sports_Freak said:

Many players go from AA to MLB. I think it's too early for the Tigers better prospects but I've heard it said that the better players make it to the majors quickly. 

I think it's getting a little less common since the MiLB reductions, which have tended to make all the jumps bigger now.

[Sports_Freak]

28 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think it's getting a little less common since the MiLB reductions, which have tended to make all the jumps bigger now.

So is the competition better now in AA? Hitters facing better pitching than in years past? All the more reason that they can make the jump. Yeah, you want them up here to play, not sit on the bench. And they do need a bit more experience at AA than our top prospects have gotten. Just give them a good long look next spring. And I still think we'll be calling up a youngster or two when the minor league season is over. Let them hang with us during a playoff run...

[KL2]

8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

So is the competition better now in AA? Hitters facing better pitching than in years past? All the more reason that they can make the jump. Yeah, you want them up here to play, not sit on the bench. And they do need a bit more experience at AA than our top prospects have gotten. Just give them a good long look next spring. And I still think we'll be calling up a youngster or two when the minor league season is over. Let them hang with us during a playoff run...

Remember just cause you can do algebra doesn't mean your ready for AP calc

[gehringer_2]

22 hours ago, Graterol said:

Is there any evidence that rushing players hurts long term ability?

the theory is that under the pressure of having to produce to keep a spot in the majors, a player won't make the adaptations he needs to learn to make because of the fear that some change might take him backward and he's out of a job. You want to hold guy in the minors until they have had to compensate enough times in enough ways that they have the confidence to do it in the majors. Tork is maybe the poster child for this in that he was reluctant to move away from an approach that got him 30 HR in 2023 even though it was strangling him in 2024. Had he spent another 300-500 AB at AAA learning how to make those adjustment and gaining confidence in his ability to make them, would he have gotten to where he is now faster? That is the $64 question. But who really knows? The fact is that every player is different.

Of course you always have players that are so good they just can't be adequately challenged until they get to the majors - McGonigle and Clark look like they might both be in that category. So in that case you can hold promotion over their head as leverage to make them work on things they don't really have to do to have good minor league numbers but that you demand they do before you will promote them. I think Harris is in that camp. The idea being that for each player there are particular skill milestones and not just counting stats that have to be achieved to define 'readiness' in the Tiger org.

Edited 4 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Graterol]

Out of 40 shortstops with at least 150 PAs, Sweeney ranks 39 in WAR and 37 in wrc+. He is awful and not worthy of a roster spot let alone the playing time he is getting. Contending teams need to balance development and winning. A 30 game trial won’t impact mcgonigles development. If after a trial this year and spring training next year they still think he needs to develop, he can start in Toledo and his developement is not impacted. 

[Graterol]

I would also add that mcgonigles walk rate and iso are higher in Erie than at West Michigan, and his K rate is identical. Whatever he did to get promoted at WM he is doing at Erie. The only “negative” is that his babip has regressed. Clearly he is no Ozzie smith at SS, but don’t think defense is developed any differently at AA than at MLB.

[1984Echoes]

56 minutes ago, Graterol said:

Out of 40 shortstops with at least 150 PAs, Sweeney ranks 39 ... A 30 game trial won’t impact mcgonigle's development. If after a trial this year ...

Conversely...

The Org could call up Trei Cruz as a band aid for 2025. just to cover Sweeney/SS after they demote him...

And open up the SS position in Spring Training 2026 to all competition.

Just a guess.

[4hzglory]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

So is the competition better now in AA? Hitters facing better pitching than in years past? All the more reason that they can make the jump. Yeah, you want them up here to play, not sit on the bench. And they do need a bit more experience at AA than our top prospects have gotten. Just give them a good long look next spring. And I still think we'll be calling up a youngster or two when the minor league season is over. Let them hang with us during a playoff run...

Another factor is the 40 man roster.  There are a number of players that are Rule V eligible this year that would need to be protected.  They aren't promoting McGonigle before they are fairly sure he's ready locking up a spot on the 40 man (and starting his clock) and jeopardizing other depth they want to keep.  (Remember, all those on the 60 day IL also have to be put on the 40 man after the season.)

 

It may sound good, but McGonigle and Clark are going to spend the majority of next season between AA and AAA, if no major struggles,  likely being called up at the end of 2026 (keeping their rookie eligibility) and then starting the season in 2027 giving the possibility of the extra draft pick.

[Dan Gilmore]

Like Glory said, there’s a cost to bringing either Clark or McG. There are often a few marginal players to peel off, but this year I think they will be giving up a player with some value already, why multiply the loss?

Edited 2 hours ago by Dan Gilmore
Grammar

[Graterol]

I get the importance of the 40 man, but I would rather upgrade SS and would be willing to take the risk of losing Codi Heuer.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Graterol said:

Clearly he is no Ozzie smith at SS, but don’t think defense is developed any differently at AA than at MLB.

though the question of whether he is going to play SS at MLB sounds like as much a hope as a certainty so far. We just saw a pretty good generalist IF (McKinstry) not turn a DP that a full time MLB SS probably turns. I tend to think they would only bring up a player for the stretch they expected to get at least MLB average defensive play from. Esp since 2b defense on this team is only average at best.   Is McGonigle that guy -  yet? 

[4hzglory]

14 minutes ago, Graterol said:

I get the importance of the 40 man, but I would rather upgrade SS and would be willing to take the risk of losing Codi Heuer.

It isn't Codi Heuer per say.  He may already need to come off to protect others.  Edman has the list of who is eligible for the Rule V.  And again, everyone on the 60 day (like Jobe) gets added back to the 40 at the end of the season, while only those that are FA's come off.

[4hzglory]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

though the question of whether he is going to play SS at MLB sounds like as much a hope as a certainty so far. We just saw a pretty good generalist IF (McKinstry) not turn a DP that a full time MLB SS probably turns. I tend to think they would only bring up a player for the stretch they expected to get at least MLB average defensive play from. Esp since 2b defense on this team is only average at best.   Is McGonigle that guy -  yet? 

Not only that, but he hasn't shown he can hit AAA pitching yet, which as was said earlier, is a bigger jump than it used to be with the few minor league teams and more pitchers being shuttled between the majors and AAA.  I think it's foolish to think McGonigle would step in right now and be better than Sweeney currently is.  

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, 4hzglory said:

It isn't Codi Heuer per say.  He may already need to come off to protect others.  Edman has the list of who is eligible for the Rule V.  And again, everyone on the 60 day (like Jobe) gets added back to the 40 at the end of the season, while only those that are FA's come off.

And Tigers have a depressing 9  pitchers on the 60. 3 of those may be back soon though,  so a couple of guys like Heuer may already be as good as gone.

Edited 2 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Arlington]

14 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

And Tigers have a depressing 9  pitchers on the 60. 3 of those may be back soon though,  so a couple of guys like Heuer may already be as good as gone.

Egads, that is depressing.  That's like 3/4 a staff.  

[monkeytargets39]

5 hours ago, lordstanley said:

ESPN's in-season ranking of top 50 MLB players. Top 6 of Judge, Ohtani, Skubal, Raleigh, Witt Jr and Skenes. No Tiger other than Skubal made it. I thought I'd see Greene somewhere in the 40s.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45947026/mlb-rank-2025-season-update-top-50-baseball-players-judge-ohtani-skubal-raleigh

I’m slowly leaning towards the idea that Riley is just a “good” player and not great.  I don’t know if it’s him selling out for power or something else, but the K rate and whiff rate are bad, the BB rate is not good, his baserunning isn’t impressive, and his defense looks better than it actually is.  
 

He also has been prone to major slumps this year, which he’s able to offset with torrid hot streaks.  I’d just like to see the consistency in his at bats stick throughout most of a season even if it means he’s not hitting 30+ HRs.

 

He has regressed in a lot of categories on baseball savant YoY that is a bit concerning.

Edited 1 hour ago by monkeytargets39

[Motor City Sonics]

I don't know how you don't keep Melton in the rotation at this point.   Of course they have to limit his innings, but he should remain in the rotation until he shows he's not capable.   Better than some of the other dreck they are trying.    Charlie Morton's done.  Carlie's a high-paid janitor at this point.      Minding his mop............