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2022 Offseason Thread


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9 minutes ago, buddha said:

meh, i can make my own choices.  so can you.

addiction to anything can be awful, i dont see legalized sports gambling in america as any worse than alcohol (in fact, much less worse).  most countries all over the globe have legalized gambling and sports are intertwined with that.  north america has its own little brand of puritanical protestantism that looks down its nose at anything fun or even fun adjacent.  to me, this is a product of our national prudery.

LOL.  It has nothing to do with prudery to me. Gambling comes down to how you are wired. I get no entertainment value out of gambling. Zip, Zero, NADA. period. For me it's in the same class as country music (:classic_laugh:) .  So for me it's just stupid from any angle and the house always gets its cut. If you are wired so there is a pleasure payoff associated to winning a money bet, then you are automatically closer to risk of addiction but hopefully not close enough to be pulled over the edge.

It's true that's not really different from alcohol but I would say the difference is that you can enjoy the taste of drink without the benefit of the buzz. It exists in two different sensory realms. I'm not sure the bet's pleasure return can be divided from the same property that can be addictive. Maybe.....

Edited by gehringer_2
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One subtle but important point...I'm not concerned about legalized betting...I'm pretty Libertarian when it comes to what are traditionally considered "vices".  My concern is with broadcasters running ads for gambling and then acting as touts to encourage people to gamble.  You don't often hear them touting alcohol or weed right before an ad for beer.  Part of being FCC licensed...IIRC...is serving the public good.  Acting as a shill for gambling marks is a walking a bit of a line in my view....

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5 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

One subtle but important point...I'm not concerned about legalized betting...I'm pretty Libertarian when it comes to what are traditionally considered "vices".  My concern is with broadcasters running ads for gambling and then acting as touts to encourage people to gamble.  You don't often hear them touting alcohol or weed right before an ad for beer.  Part of being FCC licensed...IIRC...is serving the public good.  Acting as a shill for gambling marks is a walking a bit of a line in my view....

also a good point. When gambling is advertised the 'product' being sold is you losing your money directly to the house. At least A-B is giving you a beer.

Edited by gehringer_2
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7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

LOL.  It has nothing to do with prudery to me. Gambling comes down to how you are wired. I get no entertainment value out of gambling. Zip, Zero, NADA. period. For me it's in the same class as country music (:classic_laugh:) .  So for me it's just stupid from any angle and the house always gets its cut. If you are wired so there is a pleasure payoff associated to winning a money bet, then you are automatically closer to risk of addiction but hopefully not close enough to be pulled over the edge.

It's true that's not really different from alcohol but I would say the difference is that you can enjoy the taste of drink without the benefit of the buzz. It exists in two different sensory realms. I'm not sure the bet's pleasure return can be divided from the same property that can be addictive. Maybe.....

i bet $5-$10 here and there.  i dont think that makes me "wired" for something or not.  sounds more like you never do it so you struggle to understand why others do and get enjoyment from it. 

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2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

also a good point. When gambling is advertised the 'product' being sold is you losing your money directly to the house. At least A-B is giving you a beer.

but you get the joy out of watching a game and rooting for an outcome.  again, YOU dont do it, so you cant imagine why anyone else could get any enjoyment from it.

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7 minutes ago, buddha said:

i bet $5-$10 here and there.  i dont think that makes me "wired" for something or not.  sounds more like you never do it so you struggle to understand why others do and get enjoyment from it. 

well, you seem to be missing my arg, You do it because you enjoy it, there is a dopamine event associated with the behavior. No dopamine event, no behavior. I would say you have the cart and horse reversed. Behavior is driven by neurological response. 

Edited by gehringer_2
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1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

well, you seem to be missing the point, You do it because you enjoy it, there is a dopamine event associated with the behavior. No dopamine event, no behavior. I would say you have the cart and horse reversed.

i have $5 says youre wrong!  lol.

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20 minutes ago, buddha said:

and i do like g2's attempt to make his anti-gambling into something "scientific" rather than a moral objection and acknowleding the cultural and religious roots of where that objection comes from.

well, that opens to a larger question. I don't have all that much confidence in Homo Sapiens as a species. And curiously enough, old style Protestantism sort of agreed with that take in seeing man as a fallen creature and thus that it was an obligation of culture to erect as much curbing as possible around the straight and narrow path so that fewer people with prediction to fall off than might. The new prosperity gospel version of US Christianity sort of tosses that out the window with a new "I'm saved, I'm saintly, I can do anything I want" view of mankind. But that's another story.

Not sure why you are down on brain science, its objective facts stand up to scrutiny a lot better than religious opinion.

Of course the fun part is response can be conditioned as well as the response driving subsequent behavior!

Edited by gehringer_2
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I have no objection to someone putting down a couple of dollars on a bet or lottery ticket. Or to someone buying beer or even attending a wine tasting.

Once again my issue is with the over proliferation of ads. Especially ones with a "Dumb Blond" and a couple of Fat Guys screaming at me every single commercial break. Since most of the time whatever sporting events I watch is usually background noise the same commercial over and over, sometimes multiple times in a break makes me decide to turn off the set and follow on game cast or whatever. I stopped listening to sports radio ages ago so I can't comment on shows that constantly talk betting line or strategies.

All I want from Draft Kings or whoever is that put a bit more profit into creativity.

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5 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

I have no objection to someone putting down a couple of dollars on a bet or lottery ticket. Or to someone buying beer or even attending a wine tasting.

Once again my issue is with the over proliferation of ads. Especially ones with a "Dumb Blond" and a couple of Fat Guys screaming at me every single commercial break. Since most of the time whatever sporting events I watch is usually background noise the same commercial over and over, sometimes multiple times in a break makes me decide to turn off the set and follow on game cast or whatever. I stopped listening to sports radio ages ago so I can't comment on shows that constantly talk betting line or strategies.

All I want from Draft Kings or whoever is that put a bit more profit into creativity.

i hate the ads too.

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2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Like Canada didn't learn Gretz was a sell out when he went to LA?

Yeah, his reputation survived that, his representatives sold the idea that it wasn't his idea to leave Edmonton and go to LA and he did so tearfully, he was "traded", which was a load of malarkey of course.  But these gambling ads, they are an outrage, the first time you see them it is such a shock to learn that he doesn't understand his role, that he is someone that kids look up to.  And please, don't toss "beer ads" onto the pile, 12-year-olds won't be ordering beer on their phones at recess, but now they can start betting as soon as they have a phone.

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11 minutes ago, buddha said:

i hate the ads too.

The 'endorsement' aspect that JC first mentioned wrt Gretzky is interesting also. In an ad like Gretzky's the endorsement aspect is right there in your face - clearly that is what he signed up to do. OTOH, Larry David's people put out that his commercials were not a personal endorsement of crypto, he was simply paid to make a funny commercial that all you are seeing from him is his craft, not his endorsement. I don't know if that argument cuts any water or not (esp since he 'plays' himself in the commerical) but it's out there.

Edited by gehringer_2
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7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

The 'endorsement' aspect that JC first mentioned wrt Gretzky is interesting also. In an ad like Gretzky's the endorsement aspect is right there in your face - clearly that is what he signed up to do. OTOH, Larry David's people put out that his commercials were not a personal endorsement of crypto, he was simply paid to make a funny commercial that all you are seeing from him is his craft, not his endorsement. I don't know if that argument cuts any water or not (esp since he 'plays' himself in the commerical) but it's out there.

crypto also being a form of legalized gambling...lol.

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13 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Yeah, his reputation survived that, his representatives sold the idea that it wasn't his idea to leave Edmonton and go to LA and he did so tearfully, he was "traded", which was a load of malarkey of course.  But these gambling ads, they are an outrage, the first time you see them it is such a shock to learn that he doesn't understand his role, that he is someone that kids look up to.  And please, don't toss "beer ads" onto the pile, 12-year-olds won't be ordering beer on their phones at recess, but now they can start betting as soon as they have a phone.

how?

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I have no problem with sports gambling but it is becoming too easy for people to lose way too much money just from a few clicks on their phone.  I hate how leagues are getting tied up with it now because it can only lead to bad things with the integrity of the games.  The constant ads are not only annoying but normalize betting on everything related to sports on any whim.  Nowadays kids are getting gambling thrown at them from all directions like loot boxes in video games.  I 100% would be for banning the ads.  I also drink beer but also think that beer ads should be banned as well.  Sure it is up to people to control themselves with their "vices" but I also think it is weird to not acknowledge the effect these ads have on people who may not be as strong minded as you.  I'm not sure why we would want to glorify these things except so that the companies running these things can get richer.  Yay for that I guess?

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I think they should be treated like cigarette ads.

I don't have the exact definitions but...

Camel (and all cigarette makers) were outlawed from using animation to advertise its product as it was deemed that it was a direct attempt by Camel ("Joe Camel") to entice underage smoking or new, teenage smokers.

Ergo: no animation allowed. I think quite a lot of other restrictions popped up around that time as well... (Early '90's IIRC?)

Not certain what limitations should be used on gambling but lets just call it "sin advertising" for arguments sake. 

Any types of ads for sports gambling are OK between the hours of Midnight and 6AM, and in print ads (with print ad limitations), but during "waking hours" they are restricted to...    __________ advertising?

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17 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I think they should be treated like cigarette ads.

I don't have the exact definitions but...

Camel (and all cigarette makers) were outlawed from using animation to advertise its product as it was deemed that it was a direct attempt by Camel ("Joe Camel") to entice underage smoking or new, teenage smokers.

Ergo: no animation allowed. I think quite a lot of other restrictions popped up around that time as well... (Early '90's IIRC?)

Not certain what limitations should be used on gambling but lets just call it "sin advertising" for arguments sake. 

Any types of ads for sports gambling are OK between the hours of Midnight and 6AM, and in print ads (with print ad limitations), but during "waking hours" they are restricted to...    __________ advertising?

i'd probably be fine with that too.

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I too have a problem with the ESPN style shows where all they are talking about is gambling lines and all that. They are manipulating drama.  That’s not for just casual betting. That’s intended to hook people and make it part of their daily lives. Most likely younger people who can least afford it. The presentation is it has a very TMZ feel to it. Creates a sense of urgency. It’s the same tactics they use on Black Friday sales. 
 

plus it’s boring. Nobody care about your betting from last night. It’s as interesting as your golf game or fantasy football results or what happened in poker. 

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