ewsieg Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 3 hours ago, chasfh said: That part is never going to change, so the goal, from my point of view, should be for cool-headed civilian leaders to exercise control over the worst impulses of their more zealous counterparts in order to minimize the atrocities that a constant militaristic footing inevitably leads to. Just to note from my POV, this is exactly what is happening with Biden in regards to Ukraine. Based on reports about Nordstream, long range weapons, and even rushing Ukraine into NATO, from a zealous (and arguably righteous) standpoint, it's easy to give or greenlight everything Ukraine asks for or wants, but it seems whenever there is hesitation on our part, it seems like we later hear reports that Biden specifically is the one that is worried about the overzealousness and has pushed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Most of the Ukraine people are good folks and are stuck in utter hell right now. But do not lose sight there are many factions in Ukraine that are ultra right Neo Nazi types. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 9 hours ago, romad1 said: also, I spent 2 years NOT on offense in Germany defending the democracies during the 80s. Say it wasn't worth it all you like. Its not like Vladdie wouldn't have taken whatever inch was given him if we were not there in collective security. It's not spoken of as often... But I spent 1.5 years next to the DMZ in Korea keeping the Kims from terrorizing the South, or Japan for that matter... Defensive. Not offensive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 14 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: It's not spoken of as often... But I spent 1.5 years next to the DMZ in Korea keeping the Kims from terrorizing the South, or Japan for that matter... Defensive. Not offensive. So, you must have some 'soldiers throwing each other through windows of bars' stories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 its weird over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 18 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Most of the Ukraine people are good folks and are stuck in utter hell right now. But do not lose sight there are many factions in Ukraine that are ultra right Neo Nazi types. and the entire country including those who are not members of nutter far-right racialist groups are in the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, romad1 said: So, you must have some 'soldiers throwing each other through windows of bars' stories I have at least one of those... For another timed and not for public consumption... I have a few KATUSA stories as well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Most of the Ukraine people are good folks and are stuck in utter hell right now. But do not lose sight there are many factions in Ukraine that are ultra right Neo Nazi types. There are ultra right Neo Nazi types in every country including the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 South African government was trying to undermine international law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 17 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: It's not spoken of as often... But I spent 1.5 years next to the DMZ in Korea keeping the Kims from terrorizing the South, or Japan for that matter... Defensive. Not offensive. My brother served same assignment 90-91 era. Came back a Mormon. We didn’t see that coming lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: I have at least one of those... For another timed and not for public consumption... I have a few KATUSA stories as well... i heard a lot of both kinds of stories. USAF stories about Clark Field and USN stories about Subic Bay in the Philippines were also a staple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jz68 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Since I see mentions of time spent in Korea, I might as well throw in that I was at Camp Casey 2nd ID in 1987. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Camp Stanley. 15th Artillery. A few miles outside of Seoul. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 My Korea time was a month in Jan 2000 (weird time to be anywhere given Y2K scare), I was part of a team monitoring Ulche Focus Lense -- a major exercise. As I recall, the big news story was the Cuban kid that was being forcibly repatriated to Cuba from Miami. What I learned from Korea: Do not get stuck on the night shift for a wargame if you intend to sleep during the day and Koreans are holding elections where they use loudspeakers on the backs of trucks and the candidate speechifies for an hour in the street in front of the Hotel Asia in the town by Osan AB. Sunday morning is just a state of mind when every night is Saturday night to the US GIs. Saw many dudes swinging from lamp posts and carousing as I drove into the AB for the wargame every morning. The "land of not quite right" was on its way out but there were still a lot of ridiculous engineering situations. (e.g., Heating pipes across the threshold of doors that you had to step over). Korea had excellent, excellent wide scale internet then. I understand it was only improved since. Russian girls were dancing in all the establishments where young idiots with security clearances might dispense with their senses. The dust from China was everywhere. Yellow tint to cars, windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 1:26 PM, Tigeraholic1 said: Most of the Ukraine people are good folks and are stuck in utter hell right now. But do not lose sight there are many factions in Ukraine that are ultra right Neo Nazi types. Is this true? I’m not arguing that it’s not, because I honestly don’t know, but I’ve seen nothing along these lines taht indicate that it’s a major or existential problem. Maybe because I’m hearing about Ukraine only from MSM, tweets and, frankly, posts here. What’s the evidence that neo-Nazis are prominent to the degree that they are a threat to gain control of or influence the direction of Ukraine? Because that’s the only way neo-Nazism in Ukraine would truly matter, right? Is Zelenskyy himself a neo-Nazi? That seems unlikely to me since he is reportedly Jewish. If he’s not, then who is and how do they and their followers factor into the big picture of what’s happening in Ukraine? What are the numbers we’re talking about, in terms of percent of population? How close are they to exerting their overall will in the conflict from the Ukraine side? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 5 minutes ago, chasfh said: Is this true? I’m not arguing that it’s not, because I honestly don’t know, but I’ve seen nothing along these lines taht indicate that it’s a major or existential problem. Maybe because I’m hearing about Ukraine only from MSM, tweets and, frankly, posts here. What’s the evidence that neo-Nazis are prominent to the degree that they are a threat to gain control of or influence the direction of Ukraine? Because that’s the only way neo-Nazism in Ukraine would truly matter, right? Is Zelenskyy himself a neo-Nazi? That seems unlikely to me since he is reportedly Jewish. If he’s not, then who is and how do they and their followers factor into the big picture of what’s happening in Ukraine? What are the numbers we’re talking about, in terms of percent of population? How close are they to exerting their overall will in the conflict from the Ukraine side? You could also just google The Azov Movement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted June 19, 2023 Author Share Posted June 19, 2023 39 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: You could also just google The Azov Movement How close are they to gaining control of or influencing the direction of Ukraine? Is Zelenskyy himself part of it? How do they factor into the big picture of what’s happening in Ukraine? What are the numbers we’re talking about, in terms of percent of population? How close are they to exerting their overall will in the conflict from the Ukraine side? Can you bottom line that for us? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 This town of Robotnye is a psychological gateway. If Ukraine can gain that this week, that would be a huge threshold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted June 19, 2023 Share Posted June 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, romad1 said: This town of Robotnye is a psychological gateway. If Ukraine can gain that this week, that would be a huge threshold. That will be a HUGE footprint for them. Turning point type stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 The offensive is not going well. It’s obvious to anyone who isn’t drinking the media kool-aide ISW: Ukrainian forces may be temporarily pausing counteroffensive operations to reevaluate tactics The Wall Street Journal similarly reported on June 17 that Ukrainian forces “have mostly paused their advances in recent days” as Ukrainian command reexamines tactics. https://kyivindependent.com/isw-28/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 ABSURD and will bring WWIII Direct conflict between Putin and NATO military units on the ground in Ukraine 'the next logical step' after Zelensky's failed counter-offensive Some advances were reported but Russia’s main defensive lines have not been not bridged. No major towns were liberated and no major Russian military formations were neutralised. in the absence of effective air cover, the Ukrainians took heavy punishment from Russian forces – putting paid to the argument that the invaders are suffering from low-level training and morale. it wouldn’t be a surprise if Moscow makes another attempt to capture more of Ukraine’s core centres and cut its forces off from the Black Sea completely. https://www.skynews.com.au/insights-and-analysis/direct-conflict-between-putin-and-nato-military-units-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-the-next-logical-step-after-zelenskys-failed-counteroffensive/news-story/4de3f1cd66f08fff93cf93f6b43bf327?amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Lol @ Ukraine leadership complaining that people have to high expectations for offensive. This is from the same people who claimed Ukraine would take Crimea back in months. They also released a Hollywood style trailer for the offensive on social media. Now you want to cry about expectations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Fresh load of digital manure just arrived from Moscow for immediate distribution by all acolytes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpigsmuggler Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 8 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: Fresh load of digital manure just arrived from Moscow for immediate distribution by all acolytes. They are British and Ukraine news sources. At any rate the secret document leak predicted this. The Secret Documents Warning Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Will Likely Stall Quote Ukraine’s challenges in massing troops, ammunition and equipment could cause its military to fall “well short” of Kyiv’s original goals for an anticipated counteroffensive aimed at retaking Russian-occupied areas this spring, according to U.S. intelligence assessments contained in a growing leak of classified documents revealing Washington’s misgivings about the state of the war. https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-secret-documents-warning-ukraines-counteroffensive-will-likely-stall/ The Secret Behind-the-Scenes Criticism of Biden’s Ukraine Policy Quote If you’ve felt like there’s a widening gap between the Biden administration’s lavish and grandiose rhetoric about helping Ukraine and its much more meager actions, you’re not alone. It turns out that apparently the entire Washington foreign-policy establishment sees the same gap, but is just too sympathetic to Biden’s team to complain about it on the record. Quote Everyone I spoke to who participated in these White House briefing calls was vociferous in praising the Biden administration’s policy on Ukraine. They wanted to give the president and his advisors credit for this and credit for that. They really had done a terrific job, everyone said, of saving Ukraine and acting nimbly in a rapidly evolving, predictably unpredictable conflict. But as soon as we went off the record or spoke on background, the truth flowed like a mighty river. https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/the-secret-behind-the-scenes-criticism-of-bidens-ukraine-policy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 Lol at wall street journal being british Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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