oblong Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I just don't get these corporate managements who think they need to create working conditions they wouldn't live with themselves for 10 minutes. If you can't create an environment your workers wouldn't rather quit than stay in (RR workers have been quitting in droves) you are, quite simply, incompetent managers. "But look at our profits!" It doesn't take any particular talent to squeeze more profit out a business by putting it on a path to an eventual reckoning or collapse. Then bitch that "nobody wants to work". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Railroads are profitable...very Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigeraholic1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Just now, romad1 said: Railroads are profitable...very Yes they are. You have to figure moving 50, 53' containers using 2-3 man team on a train. Compared to 50 CDL truck drivers plus fuel. You have the drayage driver taking it from the yard to final destination but you cut 2k-3K OTR miles off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said: Yes they are. You have to figure moving 50, 53' containers using 2-3 man team on a train. Compared to 50 CDL truck drivers plus fuel. You have the drayage driver taking it from the yard to final destination but you cut 2k-3K OTR miles off. I used to work specific threats to surface transportation. It was fascinating. I got to work with the railroad industry security community group. They didn't like anything that would impact their insurance costs or stock prices so wanted every report to end with "we see no reason why the chlorine train shouldn't be routed through Manhattan" or whatever. Edited September 15, 2022 by romad1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, romad1 said: I used to work specific threats to surface transportation. It was fascinating. I got to work with the railroad industry security community group. They didn't like anything that would impact their insurance costs or stock prices so wanted every report to end with "we see no reason why the chlorine train shouldn't be routed through Manhattan" or whatever. Did you ever work a train carrying an ocean full of methylamine through a remote stretch of New Mexico? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said: Did you ever work a train carrying an ocean full of methylamine through a remote stretch of New Mexico? No, but I did have to do a report about kids who got stuck in water towers in NM and drowned and weren't found for a long time afterwards. Grim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 railroad tankcars are amazingly robust though. It always amazes me when you see derailments and the tankecars are all strewn around like a kid got mad at his Lionel, but most are perfectly intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: railroad tankcars are amazingly robust though. It always amazes me when you see derailments and the tankecars are all strewn around like a kid got mad at his Lionel, but most are perfectly intact. US passenger railcars and light railcars are tanks. This has been good for safety but bad for the cost of moving the peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 1 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 2 hours ago, romad1 said: I used to work specific threats to surface transportation. It was fascinating. I got to work with the railroad industry security community group. They didn't like anything that would impact their insurance costs or stock prices so wanted every report to end with "we see no reason why the chlorine train shouldn't be routed through Manhattan" or whatever. Handled Chlorine a lot early in my career. Weird stuff - it makes no sense for a gas to be green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Handled Chlorine a lot early in my career. Weird stuff - it makes no sense for a gas to be green. As I recall, the public water folks went with ozone water purification specifically to get away from large rail deliveries of chlorine. There was some confluence of the two critical vulnerabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 (edited) It's been overshadowed in the news today, but this is low-key one of the bigger wins in Biden's Presidency. (Assuming the deal is ultimately ratified after the cooling off period). And Marty Walsh may be the most effective member of Biden's cabinet. Edited September 15, 2022 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, romad1 said: As I recall, the public water folks went with ozone water purification specifically to get away from large rail deliveries of chlorine. There was some confluence of the two critical vulnerabilities. Pretty much only the largest systems need enough to use rail - a little Chlorine goes a long way in water! But having handled it both ways, from a safety standpoint I would rather see Chlorine in a rail tankcar than an over the road truck any day and twice on Sunday! But there is another important factor that also drove system operators away from Chlorine which was if you have a little bit of low molecular wt organic material in your feed supply, Chlorination will help you generate halogenated organics - which is to say potential carcinogens. For instance Ann Arbor, which takes some water from the Huron river - which being a live ecosystem of course does carry some organic material, switched for that reason. Given the dilution volume of the Great Lakes, the Detroit system, which draws mostly from Lake Huron, has organic concentrations low enough that is apparently not an issue. Edited September 16, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romad1 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Pretty much only the largest systems need enough to use rail - a little Chlorine goes a long way in water! But having handled it both ways, from a safety standpoint I would rather see Chlorine in a rail tankcar than an over the road truck any day and twice on Sunday! But there is another important factor that also drove system operators away from Chlorine which was if you have a little bit of low molecular wt organic material in your feed supply, Chlorination will help you generate halogenated organics - which is to say potential carcinogens. For instance Ann Arbor, which takes some water from the Huron river - which being a live ecosystem of course does carry some organic material, switched for that reason. Given the dilution volume of the Great Lakes, the Detroit system, which draws mostly from Lake Huron, has organic concentrations low enough that is apparently not an issue. The dilution volumes of the Great Lakes has long been cited as a reason why it was ok to leave all sorts of stuff in the local watershed. Lets not do that anymore, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, romad1 said: The dilution volumes of the Great Lakes has long been cited as a reason why it was ok to leave all sorts of stuff in the local watershed. Lets not do that anymore, please. LOL. There is an interesting point hidden under the covers of the concentration issue. A set of unit operations - say like a waste water treatment plant - in general cannot perform to any certain total amout of bad stuff remaining in its outfall, only the concentration of stuff in the outfall. So the bigger the flow, the more total stuff still gets out. So if you send the treatment plant the same total amount of crap to remove, but with *less* dilution water, the total residuals in the outfall will be less because it will be lower flow at the same concentration. IOW, the value in low flow toilets is more than in the water they save the homeowner..... (also why it was a terrible mistake not to have separate sanitary and storm water sewers when so many cities were built, but what did they know ~150 yrs ago when those decisions were made?) Edited September 16, 2022 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 Brandon leaves the door open to not running again in 2024 on 20/20 this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 lol 60 minutes I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 On 9/18/2022 at 8:27 PM, pfife said: Brandon leaves the door open to not running again in 2024 on 20/20 this evening. If I had to put money on it, I'd say he's not running. I'd really like to see Buttegig (sp?) make a run. I've been impressed in how he doesn't take the Repubs bait, and has a calm nature about him, similar to Biden. Time for the next generation to take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, ben9753 said: If I had to put money on it, I'd say he's not running. I'd really like to see Buttegig (sp?) make a run. I've been impressed in how he doesn't take the Repubs bait, and has a calm nature about him, similar to Biden. Time for the next generation to take over. The only thing I worry about with Buttigieg running is that a not-insignificant number of people who typically vote Democrat won't vote for a man because he's gay, i.e., socially conservative people of color. It might be enough to swing the election all by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 I keep seeing people say it's time for the next generation when Biden may very well have been the most liberal and productive president since Lyndon Johnson. We have a democracy on the brink. I want the old experienced Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 I like Pete too. I think the wild card is Harris. Not that she has a shot but I'm afraid she thinks she does and will try to run. Someone needs to get to her and say "You did your part, you helped us get elected, you will be rewarded with your choice of assignments in a new Admin, cabinet posts, ambassadorship... maybe a judge" Maybe she can say "I like this job so I'll be the running mate again" She can follow in Calhoun and George Clinton's footsteps. It'd be best if the D's could have a gentle and uniting primary, as such things can exist. Sounds like Newsom is also all in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 this was always possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 2 hours ago, oblong said: I like Pete too. I think the wild card is Harris. Not that she has a shot but I'm afraid she thinks she does and will try to run. Someone needs to get to her and say "You did your part, you helped us get elected, you will be rewarded with your choice of assignments in a new Admin, cabinet posts, ambassadorship... maybe a judge" Maybe she can say "I like this job so I'll be the running mate again" She can follow in Calhoun and George Clinton's footsteps. It'd be best if the D's could have a gentle and uniting primary, as such things can exist. Sounds like Newsom is also all in. Ugh. The country is not going to go for a California liberal in either Harris or Newsom. Not gonna happen. Their only chance is if they run against Trump, and at that point the risk is too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Well... I really hope the country votes like I'm going to vote... I don't give a shit if the Democratic nominee is gay, or a woman, or black, or green, or from Venus. I don't give a shit if the nominee is a California liberal, or a socialist, or progressive, or a centrist. I don't give a shit if the Democratic nominee is 90, or 19. I'm voting straight ticket Dem... in every election... until MAGA-hate-filled-fascism is eliminated out of the Republican Party. Which may never happen. Which means I may never vote Republican again... because I don't see that happening in my lifetime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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