buddha Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Hollinger certainly knows more about the NBA than me, but Wiseman is 21 (!) and has played 3, 39, 0, and 21 games his last for years. Lots of guys never really get better, but the idea that the cake is baked at 21 always bothers me. (Grant Hill was at Duke at 21.) If you are going to have teenagers in the NBA, you have to find some patience which Det can offer. that's a good point. i agree with you. wiseman obviously has upside that some (including me) are probably discounting because he's been so bad at every level so far. and honestly, its not like im watching his games. but i think this is the same situation with bagley and okafor (even bol bol). its weaver's obsession with big men in a time when big men are being de-emphasized in the game. and you already have one with upside. why do you need three? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 SI gave us a B, CBS B+ but ESPN gave a C-. Im in the C group since I don't like it but I don't hate it either but I also maybe underrating Beys value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motown Bombers Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I see teams like Utah and OKC hoarding draft picks and then I see the Pistons hoarding bigs who can't shoot. It's like the early 00's when you load up on bigs to run at Shaq. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Nets Were Offered Four First Round Picks By Unnamed Team For Mikal Bridges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Weaver interview on 97.1 https://www.audacy.com/971theticket/podcasts/stoney-and-jansen-with-heather-114/stoney-jansen-with-heathe-troy-weaver-1554575825 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 hour ago, buddha said: ... and you already have one with upside. why do you need three? Wiseman's upside is higher than Bagley's or Stew's, that's why. He's more athletic, and a much higher offensive threat. Prediction: Wiseman becomes the best 3-point shooter of these 4 bigs, and averages 35% (not this year and maybe not next year... but starting from age 23 through 33-ish...). His floor time will be dependent on his defense though. Which apparently sucks bigly. But I think he becomes a better defender than Bagley (not hard), and gets up to a tad below Duren (what Duren will become). Not elite... but more like a Turner in that he's a shot-blocker but not a great one-on-one defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Just a guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Deleterious said: Also from a GSW beat write in the Athletic: Can the Pistons salvage James Wiseman? A conversation about Detroit’s newest project Which... MIGHT be cured with playing time. Since it was close to zero with GS... how was he supposed to improve? The Pistons can have him come off the bench and live with all his mistakes while they try to coach him up. No guarantee it works but... Detroit's in a great spot to give him the chance/ playing time to try and get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Wiseman's upside is higher than Bagley's or Stew's, that's why. He's more athletic, and a much higher offensive threat. Prediction: Wiseman becomes the best 3-point shooter of these 4 bigs, and averages 35% (not this year and maybe not next year... but starting from age 23 through 33-ish...). His floor time will be dependent on his defense though. Which apparently sucks bigly. But I think he becomes a better defender than Bagley (not hard), and gets up to a tad below Duren (what Duren will become). Not elite... but more like a Turner in that he's a shot-blocker but not a great one-on-one defender. Wiseman has (had?) a lot more potential than Duren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleterious Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 If you want more hope. Wiseman averaged 11 and 6 as a rookie in only 21 MPG while playing on a winning team. GSW made the playin game that season and were 39-33 (Covid season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Deleterious said: Wiseman has (had?) a lot more potential than Duren. I hedged on that because of the past few years... And on the defensive end, I'm not so certain about that. On O, yes... but big picture... he's got a lot to prove... and a long ways to improve. Room for growth... but the growth curve is steep for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I see you hedged on that too because you used both "has" more potential than Duren as well as "had?" more potential than Duren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 19 hours ago, RandyMarsh said: Regardless what you think of the trade one good thing is it gives us another player to focus on and hope plays well the rest of the way. We already knew what Bey was so there was no tuning into see him but we now have Ivey, Duren and Wiseman to keep tabs and watch. That's the lone positive I see from this as well. We knew what we were getting in Bey and it wasn't fun to watch in the least. At least with Wiseman it's something new to keep an eye on because otherwise, I was running out of reasons to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, buddha said: and traded a lot of assets to get there. now, the assets might not have been all that valuable, but they were assets. This is the one thing I'd give Weaver a pass on and more patience is required, because he was handed a pile of dung when he got here 3 years ago. People point to OKC, Houston, Orlando, Utah and San Antonio having this "treasure chest" of future 1sts while the Pistons have jack. Well, the Pistons didn't have George, Westbrook when he was good, CP3, Harden, Vucevic, Gordon, Mitchell, Gobert and Murray to sell off, he had broken Griffin and Rose, so no shit that those franchises have all these extra 1sts to work with. What I can't forgive Weaver is what has now turned out to be a disastrous 2020 draft. You can't have three top 18 picks (and give up assets to get the last two) and end up with a bench big, a barely NBA caliber PG and a reclamation project in Wiseman. Getting no surefire starters 3 years after the drafting 3 guys in the 1st is a massive fail and has set this thing back. Now we wait on Cade to be healthy (concerning since he's had multiple injuries in his first 2 years), Ivey and Duren to develop, lottery luck and for this or the next coach to develop somebody/anybody who isn't a very high draft pick. I'm still on board with this process but Weaver needs to start making some hay starting this offseason. Edited February 10, 2023 by NYLion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 18 minutes ago, NYLion said: ... What I can't forgive Weaver is what has now turned out to be a disastrous 2020 draft. You can't have three top 18 picks (and give up assets to get the last two) and end up with ... a barely NBA caliber PG and ... How much criticism does Weaver get for not correctly identifying Haliburton versus Killian? But also... how many in here were higher on Haliburton versus Killian? I don't remember... I think I was higher on Hali but I wasn't vocal about it at all. It was probably marginal at best... and at that point for me it was "trust in Weaver" anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) From what I remember of the 2020 draft I think most saw Edwards as the only potential star and even he wasnt a sure thing by many due to his shooting numbers in the SEC. I think Del was always down on Killian but I think aside from him most on here were fine with the pick. I think the consensus was that Hali may have been the safer pick but Hayes had more upside but I could be wrong about that. Edited February 10, 2023 by RandyMarsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 46 minutes ago, NYLion said: This is the one thing I'd give Weaver a pass on and more patience is required, because he was handed a pile of dung when he got here 3 years ago. People point to OKC, Houston, Orlando, Utah and San Antonio having this "treasure chest" of future 1sts while the Pistons have jack. Well, the Pistons didn't have George, Westbrook when he was good, CP3, Harden, Vucevic, Gordon, Mitchell, Gobert and Murray to sell off, he had broken Griffin and Rose, so no shit that those franchises have all these extra 1sts to work with. What I can't forgive Weaver is what has now turned out to be a disastrous 2020 draft. You can't have three top 18 picks (and give up assets to get the last two) and end up with a bench big, a barely NBA caliber PG and a reclamation project in Wiseman. Getting no surefire starters 3 years after the drafting 3 guys in the 1st is a massive fail and has set this thing back. Now we wait on Cade to be healthy (concerning since he's had multiple injuries in his first 2 years), Ivey and Duren to develop, lottery luck and for this or the next coach to develop somebody/anybody who isn't a very high draft pick. I'm still on board with this process but Weaver needs to start making some hay starting this offseason. Weaver started with a pile shit. Three years later and he’s turned it into a younger pile of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYLion Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Hongbit said: Weaver started with a pile shit. Three years later and he’s turned it into a younger pile of shit. That's fair although I wouldn't call Cade, Ivey and Duren piles of shit, they're just.... young. I'd take that over the Griffin, Rose, Drummond, Jackson core that was on a one way treadmill to nowhere. My main point is, compared to the other rebuilding teams, he had garbage assets to work with to build a foundation while those others teams all had stars that they could sell off for multiple 1sts. Edited February 10, 2023 by NYLion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 58 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: How much criticism does Weaver get for not correctly identifying Haliburton versus Killian? But also... how many in here were higher on Haliburton versus Killian? I don't remember... I think I was higher on Hali but I wasn't vocal about it at all. It was probably marginal at best... and at that point for me it was "trust in Weaver" anyways. It also is not your job to chose Haliburton over Hayes. It's Weaver's job and he should be judged on it. At the end of the day, I don't judge him too harshly on one bad first round pick in three years (out of 6 total). The jury is still very much out on Ivey, Cade, and Duren and time will tell. I am fairly confident Duren will turn out to be a really good pick-up at 13 overall. Results do matter though and the results the Pistons are getting are putrid. Which is why next year is crucial in evaluating his performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I'm going to concur with NYLion. These guys are just... young. Including Wiseman. I don't feel anything crucial here... except patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) All excuses and qualifiers aside, Cade has been a huge disappointment so far. Ivey has not looked bad but I’m not sure he’s got star potential. Duren has been great for a young center drafted outside the lottery but I’m not sure how valuable that is in the long run. Now we add Wiseman to the mix who has looks like Bagley 2.0. Not saying this cant turn into something but that’s based more on hope, dreams, and wishes than any solid foundation. Please save us, Vic! Edited February 11, 2023 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Edited February 11, 2023 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL2 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Hongbit said: Welcome back bey hope it's not awkward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hart Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 I doubt the Warriors want Wiseman back and are happy to save the money. Either way, I wouldn't be upset. I would prefer Bey to Wiseman but we are splitting hairs at this point and the Pistons clearly don't want to re-sign Bey long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hongbit Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Yep. GS will have to pay something like $110m in luxury tax over the next two years if they keep Wiseman. I think they will they find a way to let this deal go through Edited February 11, 2023 by Hongbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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