2023 NBA Trade Deadline

[RandyMarsh]

Regardless what you think of the trade one good thing is it gives us another player to focus on and hope plays well the rest of the way. We already knew what Bey was so there was no tuning into see him but we now have Ivey, Duren and Wiseman to keep tabs and watch. 

[1984Echoes]

19 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

... we aren't in position to compete yet and he doesn't want to throw a young coach in a position where they are going to fail... 

Or he knows that he can't get the best coach out there to get us wins in the playoffs as long as we are still a crappy team.

Once they make some strides into the playoffs, maybe he can get us a superb coach that gets us farther in the playoffs than Casey ever could...

[Hongbit]

4 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

The only point I would disagree with is this one,

I think even if we fall to 3-4-5 that there are 3 significant players who have skill-sets that we are missing and therefore also give us a huge boost. I don't want to agree that we'll struggle next year. Any of the top 5 players in this draft help this team immensely.

It’s become a positionless league where nobody plays defense.  Are there really skill sets anymore?  It’s can you score and if you are really good you can create your own shot and score.    

[Hongbit]

8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Or he knows that he can't get the best coach out there to get us wins in the playoffs as long as we are still a crappy team.

Once they make some strides into the playoffs, maybe he can get us a superb coach that gets us farther in the playoffs than Casey ever could...

Im not sure that coaching has mattered less right now than at any point in NBA history.  

[Deleterious]

Coaching matters in the playoffs a lot more. 

So it doesn't matter to the Pistons I guess.

[Motown Bombers]

34 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It’s become a positionless league where nobody plays defense.  Are there really skill sets anymore?  It’s can you score and if you are really good you can create your own shot and score.    

Yeah the NBA has pretty much become unwatchable. Add in the NBA has a higher Diva per capita than any other league, and it is just becoming insufferable. 

[gehringer_2]

33 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

It’s become a positionless league where nobody plays defense.  Are there really skill sets anymore?  It’s can you score and if you are really good you can create your own shot and score.    

so in general it is true that the players in any given era are probably better than those that went before, especially given the shooting skill that has developed in the league - still it might be fun to see what one of today's teams would do against a hard nosed defensive team like the bad boys under the old rules. Maybe there was a reason that nobody shot 33% from the three point line back in the day. 🤔

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Hongbit said:

It’s become a positionless league where nobody plays defense.  Are there really skill sets anymore?  It’s can you score and if you are really good you can create your own shot and score.    

So do we want one of the Thompson brothers who are uber athletic (if we fall in the 3 to 5 range), look like hound dogs on defense... but aren't great jump-shooters...

Or Miller, who can shoot the lights out (it looks like from anywhere although I haven't checked shot charts) but is only average athletic and is currently questionable on defense (not certain how much/ if that could improve)...?

[Hongbit]

Unless it’s a no brainer at 1-2 between either La Chèvre or Scoot, I have no confidence in Troy Quinn to make the correct choice  

[1984Echoes]

Yeah, whatever.

[Hongbit]

51 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

Yeah, whatever.

[Hart]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

so in general it is true that the players in any given era are probably better than those that went before, especially given the shooting skill that has developed in the league - still it might be fun to see what one of today's teams would do against a hard nosed defensive team like the bad boys under the old rules. Maybe there was a reason that nobody shot 33% from the three point line back in the day. 🤔

Those guys didn't grow up shooting threes so it would definitely be a battle of contrasts.  I'd love to see it.  It's hard for me to say the reason most people over 40 enjoy 80's and 90's basketball more is because of the style but there may be some truth to it.  

[Hart]

I don't think Weaver's drafting has been bad.  Killian is a bust at #7 or whatever he was but that happens.  The problem is the sum of the parts of this team right now is a bust and I doubt it would have changed much with Cade.  And he also decided to hang onto Casey as long as he has so if Casey is the problem, that's on Weaver also.  It could turn around quickly next year when Cade comes back and Ivey moves into his second year but if it doesn't, there is a little hope for this team.

[casimir]

Where's Betrayer?  Did he get traded yesterday?

[Shinzaki]

I'm 62...been watching the Piston since Lanier was in his prime.  The game is different...low post offense isn't as much of a thing any more.  It's definitley more perimeter and jump shot oriented.  Defense is maybe a bit less physical...but there aren't a of of uncontested shots today...guys play defense the length of the floor.  Teams that are good at spacing have more room to operate towards the basket...that can be fun.  Would love to have seen a guy like Dominique Wilkins flying down the lane in today's game...or Bob McAdoo or Lanier working on the perimeter facing the basket

[Deleterious]

My prediction.  Wiseman ends up being fairly decent and maybe even good on offense.  But will be just as bad if not worse on defense.

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

My prediction.  Wiseman ends up being fairly decent and maybe even good on offense.  But will be just as bad if not worse on defense.

and weaver uses our cap space to sign him to a three year $45 million deal.

[Deleterious]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

and weaver uses our cap space to sign him to a three year $45 million deal.

Toss in Cade demanding a trade and that sounds about right.

[Deleterious]

The propaganda begins.

 

[buddha]

hollinger:

What’ so wild about Detroit acquiring Wiseman is that the Pistons already have a young, promising center from the University of Memphis. Jalen Duren is barely 19 — nearly three years younger than the “prospect” Detroit acquired — and is already a better player. You have your center of the future, Detroit! You don’t need another one!

The other bizarre part is that the Pistons didn’t trade Alec Burks or Bojan Bogdanović, apparently eyeing a sharp move up the standings a year from now. Whatever you think of how realistic this approach is, the cognitive dissonance here is jarring.

I’m sorry, but, “We’re trying to win next year,” and, “We traded Saddiq Bey for James Wiseman,” are not compatible statements. Even if Bey isn’t a long-term starter, he was much more likely to help next season, costs half as much and doesn’t overlap with two other good young players at the same position. Oh well. As long as Isaiah Stewart gets shoehorned into more minutes as a pretend four, I’m happy.

Wiseman has shown some improvement in Golden State, but the basic issues of hands, awareness and feel are never really going away; most analytic methods still rate him among the league’s least effective players. For the rest of this season, at least, he’ll be an elite tank commander, but asking next season’s coaching staff (whomever it is) to win immediately will result in Wiseman on the end of the bench by Thanksgiving. In the meantime, if the Pistons weren’t keeping Bey, this was a major missed opportunity to get a return on a rotation-caliber young player with a good contract.

[buddha]

9 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

The propaganda begins.

 

you hear the troy weaver justifications already.  "if weaver had him at the top of his board its a good gamble."

ummm...what?  that says more about weaver's board than it does james wiseman.

bagley last year?  mmmm....ok, i guess.  taking a gamble on a guy who had some potential when you have nothing else at the big man position at the time.  but since then you have....BAGLEY and DUREN!  why are we using an asset to acquire another one?  

it wasnt a wiseman or bey decision.  you could have dealt bey for something else if you didnt think he was a rotation player.  and no one seems to be bringing up that if bey isnt a rotation player, why did troy trade multiple players and picks for him in the first place?

and keith langlois is employed by the team, what do we expect him to say?  im waiting for his article on tom gores' amazing vision for the team, coming next month.

[RatkoVarda]

good article from GSW beat writer in The Athletic. Wiseman came into a difficult situation where championships mattered more than his development - and he did not play his one college year, then covid, then injuries, and he was forever behind. He looks like a low IQ player in Kerr's system. Lots of guys would. Let's see if that continues. Personally, I will say Wiseman at his best is better than Bey at his best, even in today's NBA.

last graph:

Wiseman will go to Detroit, free from the dynastic pressure he always felt with the Warriors, and maybe he will have a great NBA career. I hope he does. I think it’s possible. But the time had run out on Wiseman’s Warriors career, complete with a sigh of relief from all sides, I’m pretty sure.

[Deleterious]

Also from a GSW beat write in the Athletic:

Can the Pistons salvage James Wiseman? A conversation about Detroit’s newest project

Quote

But watch a full game and the mistakes pile up quickly, opponents attack him relentlessly, the bad games snowball and all the on/off metrics tell an ugly tale of a player that was hemorrhaging points and costing the Warriors nearly every time he was on the floor. 

Quote

What do you think is the biggest reason why Wiseman was unable to carve out a stable role with the Warriors?

The defensive end. 

When leveraged correctly, the Warriors found ways to weaponize his offensive tool box in a simplified role. He could never operate within the Steve Kerr, Steph Curry flowing ecosystem, but if they dialed up more pick-and-rolls or planted him in the dunker spot, he could pile up the points.

But any lineups that included Wiseman could never generate stops. This season, they had a 123.2 defensive rating in his 262 minutes on the floor. He has scattered feet when switched onto the perimeter, struggles with the cat-and-mouse game in drop coverage, jumps too often at simple pump fakes and has traditionally been a step late when timing up blocks.

 

[RatkoVarda]

40 minutes ago, buddha said:

but the basic issues of hands, awareness and feel are never really going away

Hollinger certainly knows more about the NBA than me, but Wiseman is 21 (!) and has played 3, 39, 0, and 21 games his last for years. Lots of guys never really get better, but the idea that the cake is baked at 21 always bothers me. (Grant Hill was at Duke at 21.)  If you are going to have teenagers in the NBA, you have to find some patience which Det can offer.

[Deleterious]

Nobody is ever saying the cake is fully baked when they say things like that.  They are saying you are trying to bake a cake and do not have eggs or butter.  You can still bake the cake, but it wont turn out very good because you lack some basic ingredients.