Gun Legislation, Crime, and Events

[CMRivdogs]

2 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

By this standard, what if two people are in a place they shouldn't be, both with guns, and one shoots first.  Is the other allowed to return fire in an act of self defense or do you just sit there and hope you don't die, but don't shoot under the hopes the attackers will stop?

We're practically back to Tombstone and Dodge City now. At least then the mayor and town marshal could confiscate guns when the rowdies came to town  

[mtutiger]

44 minutes ago, Archie said:

CBS did not make a factual statement.  

I stand corrected, although its worth noting that the purchaser of the gun is facing charges of an illegal straw purchase. 

That doesn't exactly reflect well on Rittenhouse IMO... and yet another reason why he's no hero.

[mtutiger]

48 minutes ago, Archie said:

There would be a lot less race problems if politicians and the media would stop exploiting it.  There are certain groups that continue to push racism because they feel it gives them power and other people make a lot of money from it.  I don't look at people by race like you do.  I look at us all as Americans.  Liberals like to divide and separate by race.  I suppose they can't get too far from their roots in racism.

What are your thoughts on Tucker Carlson and Fox News?

You are long on words for many parts of the media, but you seem decidedly silent as it pertains to their role in the divisions of our society.

[oblong]

53 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

By this standard, what if two people are in a place they shouldn't be, both with guns, and one shoots first.  Is the other allowed to return fire in an act of self defense or do you just sit there and hope you don't die, but don't shoot under the hopes the attackers will stop?

I don’t know. I guess the person who survives gets to set the rule.  “Stand your ground” is such a slippery standard. It makes little sense. Just an excuse for gun fanatics to play cowboy. 

[Tiger337]

54 minutes ago, Archie said:

There would be a lot less race problems if politicians and the media would stop exploiting it.  There are certain groups that continue to push racism because they feel it gives them power and other people make a lot of money from it.  I don't look at people by race like you do.  I look at us all as Americans.  Liberals like to divide and separate by race.  I suppose they can't get too far from their roots in racism.

I don't know you, but I think most people have good intentions and do not think they are racist.  I also think most people are racist to some extent even if they don't know it.  This includes Black people.   

Blacks were treated like animals for most of the country's history.  That doesn't go away by passing a few laws and pretending everything is OK.  We have made a lot of progress, but racism is part of the country's DNA and Black people still feel it every day.  

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

Donald Trump.

I think most people get their truths from family, friends and associates and then look for media which will confirm their beliefs.  

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tiger337

[ewsieg]

21 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don’t know. I guess the person who survives gets to set the rule.  “Stand your ground” is such a slippery standard. It makes little sense. Just an excuse for gun fanatics to play cowboy. 

I do agree that it's a slippery slope, but I do see a difference from someone like Zimmerman, who simply believes a kid is up to no good, ignores a 911 operator, follows Trayvon, and then is surprised he's in a fight and shoots and kills him when compared to a kid that legally has a gun, is approached by a guy with a illegal gun (Ziminski - felon and stolen gun), backpedals and then runs away, only to hear a gunshot (from Ziminski who claims it was a warning shot - even though eye witnesses stated he also told Rittenhouse he'd kill him earlier that night, turns around and raises his gun to deter.  Unfortunately that doesn't work because Rosenbaum must have sensed he was underage and he loves chasing after underage boys, and still Rittenhouse waits until the last possible moment before a physical altercation would happen to turn around and shoot.  Still, he tries to check on Rosenbaum, only to have Ziminski (the guy that shot a gun which even if it was a warning shot would do nothing but escalate the issue) and his wife start yelling at everyone to get Rittenhouse. 

 

[oblong]

So imagine a guy goes into a country store and starts shooting. He kills one guy and puts them gun down  Then another guy comes up and smashes him in the head with a bottle of orange juice and then gets shot because guy with gun is “standing his ground” and felt threatened so he decided to shoot him. 
 

[ewsieg]

3 minutes ago, oblong said:

So imagine a guy goes into a country store and starts shooting. He kills one guy and puts them gun down  Then another guy comes up and smashes him in the head with a bottle of orange juice and then gets shot because guy with gun is “standing his ground” and felt threatened so he decided to shoot him. 
 

So honestly, your scenario is actually the same reason why I thought Rittenhouse would be found guilty as we headed towards the trial.  At that time, I assumed that the DA in a city of 100k actually knew the laws pertaining to gun usage and bought into the 'illegally brought a game over state lines'. Even if it was truly self defense in that moment, he would still be guilty of manslaughter because that scenario happened in the commission of a crime (illegal gun). 

For instance in your scenario, there is a possibility it was self defense.  Maybe the guy walked into the country store to shoot the store owner for a specific reason, then put the gun down, fully expecting to be arrested when someone called the cops.  Instead, a friend of the store owner comes in and wants to take justice in his own hands and tries to beat him to death.  I guess I would really need to understand the law and would hope the jury instructions do a good job of doing that, but I suspect that the fact that the situation happened directly after the commission of a crime, even in a self defense moment afterwards, he might still be guilty of manslaughter.

[buddha]

12 hours ago, The Ronz said:

Please state the law and/or provide a link to it. Not arguing about the law one way or the other but I would certainly like to read it for myself.

  A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself

[pfife]

11 hours ago, Archie said:

There would be a lot less race problems if politicians and the media would stop exploiting it.  There are certain groups that continue to push racism because they feel it gives them power and other people make a lot of money from it.  I don't look at people by race like you do.  I look at us all as Americans.  Liberals like to divide and separate by race.  I suppose they can't get too far from their roots in racism.

lmao

[ewsieg]

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/rittenhouse-tells-fox-news-racist-person-backs-blm-81344259

Quote

“I’m not a racist person. I support the BLM movement, I support peacefully demonstrating,” Rittenhouse told Carlson. He said, “I feel like my life has been extremely defamed,” and hinted that he may be taking action, saying: “I have really good lawyers who are taking care of that right now."

He also hit hard at his former attorneys, John Pierce and Lin Wood, who he said used him to promote a “cause” as they raised $2 million for his bail.

Uh-oh, Rittenhouse is flipping the script on the narrative.  With a good PR firm, a year from now, instead of CPAC, he might be leading BLM rallies, with BLM allies noting he killed 2 white people that were sabotaging their peaceful protests, as the right calls him a socialist.

Edited November 23, 2021 by ewsieg

[Motor City Sonics]

12 hours ago, oblong said:

Where’s the self defense opportunity for people seeing a guy with a gun walking around?  Didn’t one or two of the victims see him shoot?  This is the problem with vigilante justice. How is someone to know he’s there to “keep law and order” and not to just kill people?  How are they to know he’s not an active shooter?  What’s the difference?   There is none. 

My argument for Trayvon Martin.  HE was the one standing his ground, not George Zimmerman.   Zimmerman attacked him.  Flat-out attacked him.  He had absolutely no authority to demand ANYTHING of Trayvon Martin and the kid ignored him and Zimmerman turned it into a physical confrontation, and the kid defended himself.  So because he was a better fighter or in better shape then suddenly he's the bad guy?      Trayvon Martin was probably told when he was a kid not to talk to strangers - how did he know that Zimmerman wasn't some kind of pervert?    Zimmerman was told by the police dispatcher not to approach, to watch and wait for the cops.   If guys in badges show up, the kid probably talks to them and explains what he's doing and where his dad lives.     It still makes me sick that the racist bastard walks free. 

But then again, it's Florida.   Casey Anthony doesn't even look for her kid for 31 days and didn't even call the cops herself, her mom did.    If you are a dog owner and your dog gets out of the yard, do you wait 31 days to look for it?   That's all I would need to know right there, but you know..............Florida.  

"Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails" That comes courtesy of a racist pig of an attorney named Laura Hogue. (I won't use the real word I am thinking in describing this piece of garbage).     What was the reality, Pig? What did he do that should have resulted in his death? He walked in a house under construction. I've done that. I know quite a few people who have done that. He stole nothing.   He was running. Is that a crime? He grabbed for the guy's gun? What would YOU do if you thought someone was about to kill you?  What the fuck was this toenail reference about?     

 

[Archie]

11 hours ago, mtutiger said:

What are your thoughts on Tucker Carlson and Fox News?

You are long on words for many parts of the media, but you seem decidedly silent as it pertains to their role in the divisions of our society.

Are you saying I'm long winded?😀😀😀

 

I have no issue with Rittenhouse telling his story. I think he deserves to with all the false info reported.  I do wish it with someone other than Carlson.  I don't think any of the MSM would give him a fair shake since they're mostly responsible for the false info.

[mtutiger]

Just now, Archie said:

Are you saying I'm long winded?😀😀😀

 

I have no issue with Rittenhouse telling his story. I think he deserves to with all the false info reported.  I do wish it with someone other than Carlson.  I don't think any of the MSM would give him a fair shake since they're mostly responsible for the false info.

I'm not saying you are long winded, you just seem to be leaving some folks out of your analysis about why we are so divided.

Tucker Carlson and his employer are as guilty, if not moreso, than the others.

[Archie]

9 hours ago, oblong said:

So imagine a guy goes into a country store and starts shooting. He kills one guy and puts them gun down  Then another guy comes up and smashes him in the head with a bottle of orange juice and then gets shot because guy with gun is “standing his ground” and felt threatened so he decided to shoot him. 
 

Your theory holds no water without more info.  Why did the guy in the store start shooting? 

You want to portray any gun owner or anyone that carries a firearm as a bad person for being able to defend themselves and their family.  The police are not there to protect you.  They are called after the crime is committed.  

[Archie]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I'm not saying you are long winded, you just seem to be leaving some folks out of your analysis about why we are so divided.

Tucker Carlson and his employer are as guilty, if not moreso, than the others.

I was joking about long winded but I know I am.

Yes, all media is guilty for only giving the facts they want us to know.  There are no unbiased media left. Although I would prefer they leave out info as opposed to publishishing false info.

[oblong]

29 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/rittenhouse-tells-fox-news-racist-person-backs-blm-81344259

Uh-oh, Rittenhouse is flipping the script on the narrative.  With a good PR firm, a year from now, instead of CPAC, he might be leading BLM rallies, with BLM allies noting he killed 2 white people that were sabotaging their peaceful protests, as the right calls him a socialist.

BLM should invite him to a rally... let's see what happens.

A theory I saw is Kyle's lawyer had him for 6 months and coached him on what to say... which didn't line up with MAGA. We'll see where he goes from here.

 

[chasfh]

12 hours ago, ewsieg said:

By this standard, what if two people are in a place they shouldn't be, both with guns, and one shoots first.  Is the other allowed to return fire in an act of self defense or do you just sit there and hope you don't die, but don't shoot under the hopes the attackers will stop?

And here we are debating the etiquette of how two openly-armed shooters in a civil setting should respond to each other.

Ain’t that America.

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I think most people get their truths from family, friends and associates and then look for media which will confirm their beliefs.  

More than social media anymore? So many people are becoming estranged from their families because of their radicalization by online sources.

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

More than social media anymore? So many people are becoming estranged from their families because of their radicalization by online sources.

I don't know.  My friends who post whacky stuff on social media were already leaning in that direction and just needed more confirmation to let it all out.  That's just my limited experience though.  

[chasfh]

24 minutes ago, oblong said:

BLM should invite him to a rally... let's see what happens.

A theory I saw is Kyle's lawyer had him for 6 months and coached him on what to say... which didn't line up with MAGA. We'll see where he goes from here.

 

This is what I am wondering, too. How convenient it is for RW narrative. I can’t believe Tucker had no idea he was going to say it.

Well, the BLM ain’t having any of it.

 

[chasfh]

Also, not for nothing, if you need any clue as to how “influential” Black Lives Matter is, take a look at how many likes their post got.

[chasfh]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know.  My friends who post whacky stuff on social media were already leaning in that direction and just needed more confirmation to let it all out.  That's just my limited experience though.  

Sure, they’re not a blank slate when first dive into Facebook, Twitter, and all the right-wing social apps. They’re definitely primed beforehand. I just don’t think it’s conversation over Thanksgiving dinner that’s radicalizing tens of millions of people into believing the election was stolen from Trump and that civil war is the only way to remedy it.

Edited November 23, 2021 by chasfh

[pfife]

A verified BLM account.... hmmm.... interesting.