mtutiger Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Erod faded in the 2nd half, I'm not clear why, but if the Tigers think it was for reasons beyond bad luck maybe that's another explanation (beside his other history) of why they are not pursuing him harder. Granted free agent SPs will likely still make a lot of money this offseason and all, but this market has a LOT of depth to it.... him walking may just be a risk they are willing to take if they feel they can make other moves on this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 22 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Erod faded in the 2nd half, I'm not clear why, but if the Tigers think it was for reasons beyond bad luck maybe that's another explanation (beside his other history) of why they are not pursuing him harder. Probably because over the last 4 years he hasnt pitched all that much...2020 didnt pitch at all and pitched around 150 innings in 2021 and 2023 and only 91 innings last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 There are only a handful of pitchers who will be available on the open market with a higher projected market value than E-Rod.... Clayton Kershaw Charlie Morton Aaron Nola Julio Urias Blake Snell Sony Gray Of course money spent doesn't mean results but it's not like there are a couple dozen starting pitchers to choose from that are expected to do better than E-Rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) Skubal, Manning, Olson, Faedo, Mize Thinking about it more, I guess we don't even need E-Rod if all the other guys are healthy and do what they're capable of. Not sold on Faedo yet but he did have a good WHIP this season. Edited October 2, 2023 by MIguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 of those are coming off injury, 1 has 100 solid innings, and 1 will be in bullpen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: 3 of those are coming off injury, 1 has 100 solid innings, and 1 will be in bullpen I don't think we know that Mize will be a bullpen arm. Other pitchers have come back from TJ and been good as a starter. Also, I totally forgot about Jackson Jobe. I would think he's ready at some point next year. Yeah, we need things to go our way with injuries, but it's not like the Tigers are scrambling to put together a rotation for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 minute ago, MIguy said: I don't think we know that Mize will be a bullpen arm. Other pitchers have come back from TJ and been good as a starter. Also, I totally forgot about Jackson Jobe. I would think he's ready at some point next year. Yeah, we need things to go our way with injuries, but it's not like the Tigers are scrambling to put together a rotation for next year. Faedo is the bullpen arm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 18 minutes ago, MIguy said: Skubal, Manning, Olson, Faedo, Mize Thinking about it more, I guess we don't even need E-Rod if all the other guys are healthy and do what they're capable of. Not sold on Faedo yet but he did have a good WHIP this season. Given their history in terms of innings pitched and injuries, all five being healthy and pitching full seasons seems pretty unlikely. Pitchers have a good track record coming back from TJ surgery but they also tend to lack durability and some get injured again. I definitely want to see them add another starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 9 minutes ago, Toddwert said: Faedo is the bullpen arm Faedo was brought up as and has been a starting pitcher. He has 12 starts and 3 relief appearances so I'm guessing he's still on track to be a starter, for now at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 2, 2023 Author Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 hours ago, casimir said: Maybe, maybe not. It depends upon what Hader gets and what else is available. They don't have to spend right away in free agency. Just where it makes sense to do so. The bullpen could use help, but maybe getting a couple of back end possible / more stamina type arms would be better than just Hader. I don't want barely average guys. I think our competitiveness will ramp up VERY quickly. Even if we hit only 85-ish wins next year... IMO, this team is going to have a very large growth curve from 2024-2027... we'll see how high we can get with that... Which means I don't want barely average guys. I'm looking at the top of the market, for any position player or pitcher - starter or reliever - add Harris can swing. If someone is not any better than Manning Mize or Olson, why even look at them? Same with Lange. Same with Keith/ Malloy/ Jung. Same with Carpenter. If we're not looking at guys who are improvements on any of those guys... than why are we even looking? So.. starters: Yamamoto or Snell. Closer: Hader. OF'er: Jung Hoo Lee, or Soto or Tatis. 3B'man? Maybe Westburg is an ace fielder there and we can wrangle him away from the Orioles without a crazy cost, and he'd be better at 3B (and provide just enough offense) than anyone else we could put there. That makes it a sensible move I believe. Hader is a HUGE improvement over ANYONE that we currently have in the BP. He makes everyone better by putting them in a position to succeed rather than having to overreach their abilities. He's a sensible signing. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 There is zero chance the Tigers are going to outbid everyone else for Yamamoto. Blake Snell would be nice but from what I'm seeing predicted, he could cost as much as 200 million. I don't see the Tigers spending that much on a single player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 no half measures, sign Snell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, MIguy said: There is zero chance the Tigers are going to outbid everyone else for Yamamoto. Blake Snell would be nice but from what I'm seeing predicted, he could cost as much as 200 million. I don't see the Tigers spending that much on a single player. Possibly true, but I don't really know. It may be that they haven't spent because they didn't feel they were ready for the next step. The elder Ilitch took a long time before he started spending. I know Chris Ilitch is rumored to be cheap and disinterested, but maybe they will surprise us. There are surprise teams in the free agent market every year. I am really hoping they ultimately have a healthy payroll in the near future, because it won't be fun rooting for a team that can't even keep their team together once they become good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, MIguy said: Faedo was brought up as and has been a starting pitcher. He has 12 starts and 3 relief appearances so I'm guessing he's still on track to be a starter, for now at least. Faedo will be used in a multi-inning relief role with the Tigers for the time being, Evan Woodbery of MLive.com reports. It's possible Faedo will get a start or two in September if the situation dictates it, but for now the Tigers will see how he fares in a multi-inning bullpen role. He and Joey Wentz could piggyback for some outings in the coming weeks. Faedo holds a 4.98 ERA over 11 starts for Detroit this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIguy Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 15 minutes ago, Toddwert said: Faedo will be used in a multi-inning relief role with the Tigers for the time being, Evan Woodbery of MLive.com reports. It's possible Faedo will get a start or two in September if the situation dictates it, but for now the Tigers will see how he fares in a multi-inning bullpen role. He and Joey Wentz could piggyback for some outings in the coming weeks. Faedo holds a 4.98 ERA over 11 starts for Detroit this season. What's your point? I'm talking about the future plans and you're talking about a temporary situation that has since passed. A guy getting taken out of his starters role for a while doesn't mean he's never going to be a starter again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Toddwert said: Faedo will be used in a multi-inning relief role with the Tigers for the time being, Evan Woodbery of MLive.com reports. It's possible Faedo will get a start or two in September if the situation dictates it, but for now the Tigers will see how he fares in a multi-inning bullpen role. He and Joey Wentz could piggyback for some outings in the coming weeks. Faedo holds a 4.98 ERA over 11 starts for Detroit this season. One of the issues for Faedo was that he had a problem with blister development when he threw a lot of pitches. That might have been part of the motivation to move him off starting. He is having minor corrective surgery on a nail to try and fix it. https://www.mlb.com/world-baseball-classic/news/tigers-injuries-and-roster-moves?sf103584339=1 Edited October 2, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 3 hours ago, MIguy said: Skubal, Manning, Olson, Faedo, Mize Thinking about it more, I guess we don't even need E-Rod if all the other guys are healthy and do what they're capable of. Not sold on Faedo yet but he did have a good WHIP this season. I think the Tigers are going to have Faedo in the bullpen as a multiple inning pitcher. I like that idea. He’s not quite good enough to be a starter, but he’s got more stamina than a one inning pitcher. I don’t know what kind of workload to expect out of Mize next season. It’s probably best to not expect too much. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s brought along gradually. He’s pitched 150 innings before, but I don’t know about that next season. Skubal is probably good for around 150-175 innings. As others have said, he’s the one among the bunch that I think could become an ace, health being the concern. I’m not all that optimistic about Manning. I think his injuries were flukey and not necessarily pitching issues. But I wonder if his peripherals will improve. I think BABIP was his friend this season. Olson has earned some serious consideration for the rotation out of camp next season. I think that given his workload the last two seasons, he could pitch around 150-175 innings. I think towards the end of the year, the pitching wishlist was probably a top half of the rotation SP and a bottom half of the rotation SP. that might still be the case, but I think Olson allows them to be conservative with Mize and/or maybe trade Manning for hitting help. I would argue Olson was probably assumed (say mid season of this year) to be depth in Toledo for next season, but he’s pitched himself past that. Gipson-Long probably starts out in Toledo, and maybe Jobe finds his way in Toledo at some point. I just don’t know if Jobe makes his MLB debut next season. And who the heck knows what becomes of Turnbull (I’d guess traded). So I don’t know. Getting a front line starter still appeals to me. I think it might be difficult to find that lower end guy unless trades are made. It looks like a dual edged sword there. Pitchers have had success with the Tigers lately. But will there be opportunity for the final SP spot in Detroit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 3 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Given their history in terms of innings pitched and injuries, all five being healthy and pitching full seasons seems pretty unlikely. Pitchers have a good track record coming back from TJ surgery but they also tend to lack durability and some get injured again. I definitely want to see them add another starter. I wonder if makes sense to build Mize up throughout the season to where he’s a SP by the trade deadline? A much more gradual per game stamina ramp up that extends beyond spring training. That might allow them to get an extra SP on a one year deal with the premise of flipping later on while Mize has built himself back up to SP work (on the good side) or just keep the pitcher if Mize’s recovery isn’t going so well (on the bad side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 3 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't want barely average guys. I think our competitiveness will ramp up VERY quickly. Even if we hit only 85-ish wins next year... IMO, this team is going to have a very large growth curve from 2024-2027... we'll see how high we can get with that... Which means I don't want barely average guys. I'm looking at the top of the market, for any position player or pitcher - starter or reliever - add Harris can swing. If someone is not any better than Manning Mize or Olson, why even look at them? Same with Lange. Same with Keith/ Malloy/ Jung. Same with Carpenter. If we're not looking at guys who are improvements on any of those guys... than why are we even looking? So.. starters: Yamamoto or Snell. Closer: Hader. OF'er: Jung Hoo Lee, or Soto or Tatis. 3B'man? Maybe Westburg is an ace fielder there and we can wrangle him away from the Orioles without a crazy cost, and he'd be better at 3B (and provide just enough offense) than anyone else we could put there. That makes it a sensible move I believe. Hader is a HUGE improvement over ANYONE that we currently have in the BP. He makes everyone better by putting them in a position to succeed rather than having to overreach their abilities. He's a sensible signing. IMO. I guess I’m confused what you mean by competitiveness. Do you think that is coming from within through prospects and player development? If that’s the case, which sure there will be some of that, then what’s the point of bringing free agents in on long term deals? I’m not sold on Manning, Turnbull, Lange. I’d move those guys along with any RP that brings back value. Ideally they find an IF that can handle one of 2B or 3B, a rangey RHH OF, a backup C. I think moving Carpenter might be a good idea as well. His value is probably at its peak and I don’t think he’s a viable defender on anything he has to go back on. And/or Malloy can be traded as well. There’s no need to “hide” one or the other in a corner on a daily basis. Just find a buyer and focus on acquiring and developing players that can play on both sides of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 Should I merge this and the off season thread ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 3, 2023 Share Posted October 3, 2023 26 minutes ago, oblong said: Should I merge this and the off season thread ? yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: I guess I’m confused what you mean by competitiveness. Do you think that is coming from within through prospects and player development? If that’s the case, which sure there will be some of that, then what’s the point of bringing free agents in on long term deals? ... Filling in key spots or acquiring a skillset that we are missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: I think the Tigers are going to have Faedo in the bullpen as a multiple inning pitcher. I like that idea. He’s not quite good enough to be a starter, but he’s got more stamina than a one inning pitcher... The key to this IMO is how effective a pitcher is going through a lineup multiple times (at least twice, thrice is better... but it has to be at least 2 times...); if a pitcher can face a lineup more than once in a game and be effective then that guy deserves to be a starter. I look at Faedo and think he'd be a great multiple inning reliever, but not as good as a starter. Although G2 mentioned blister problems so if that is fixed, and was holding him back or killing his effectiveness by the time he faces a lineup a 2nd time.... maybe he still has hope as a starter? TBD I think. Either way, we have a lot of rotation candidates and a lot of multiple inning guys and Hinch & Harris are going to have to sort them all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 1 hour ago, oblong said: Should I merge this and the off season thread ? Probably... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 3, 2023 Author Share Posted October 3, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: I guess I’m confused what you mean by competitiveness. Do you think that is coming from within through prospects and player development? ... PS: Yes. But there will still be holes to fix as I noted above. Think Steve Kemp traded for Chet Lemon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.