Week Two: Seattle Seahawks (0-1) @ Detroit Lions (1-0)

[Hongbit]

There was too much emphasis on leaving Seattle without any time on the clock and not enough on scoring a TD.    This was critical error in judgement.  

Coaching didn’t lose this game but better coaching decisions at the end probably win it.  

[RandyMarsh]

9 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

There was too much emphasis on leaving Seattle without any time on the clock and not enough on scoring a TD.    This was critical error in judgement.  

Coaching didn’t lose this game but better coaching decisions at the end probably win it.  

Agree 100% I get the fear of them coming right back and scoring if you leave too much time on but you shouldn't think like that. That's playing scared, go get the TD and force them to go all the way in under a minute.

There's less of a chance losing the game that way than losing by missing the FG at the end and/or losing in OT.

[Hongbit]

Some positives from yesterday:

LaPorta looked like a beast.  Love the toughness.  He’s in a different mold than Hockenson.   I can’t wait to see more of him.

Josh Reynolds was awesome.  Not sure he can keep that level of play but he was a weapon. 

Cam Sutton looked like the top corner than we brought him into become.  Once 
Moseley gets back this will be a great duo.

David Montgomery was also as advertised.  The fumble was bad but everything else he did was tough running.  The offense showed for a while without him in there.  

ASB continues to be such a stud.   The definition of grit and toughness on the team.  

Tough game to lose but this is what Pete  Carroll does.  He’s been making in game adjustments and out coaching people going on 40 years now.  He doesn’t get enough credit for how good he is in game.  He just knows how to flip the switch at halftime and get his team going in the right direction.

[Longgone]

55 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Some positives from yesterday:

LaPorta looked like a beast.  Love the toughness.  He’s in a different mold than Hockenson.   I can’t wait to see more of him.

Josh Reynolds was awesome.  Not sure he can keep that level of play but he was a weapon. 

Cam Sutton looked like the top corner than we brought him into become.  Once 
Moseley gets back this will be a great duo.

David Montgomery was also as advertised.  The fumble was bad but everything else he did was tough running.  The offense showed for a while without him in there.  

ASB continues to be such a stud.   The definition of grit and toughness on the team.  

Tough game to lose but this is what Pete  Carroll does.  He’s been making in game adjustments and out coaching people going on 40 years now.  He doesn’t get enough credit for how good he is in game.  He just knows how to flip the switch at halftime and get his team going in the right direction.

Also, and no one seems to want to give him credit, but Geno Smith played his ass off, and while their oline is dinged up, they have a lot of weapons.

[MichiganCardinal]

I'm not that worried. This game was deflating (mostly due to having such a great crowd), but it wasn't devastating (the word the Freep used). I don't care about the first half turnover because it was not one in any practical sense, but if they don't turn the ball over twice in the second half and gift wrap 14 points, they win the game handily. This is what I meant yesterday in the other thread when I said the Lions were more talented. Even as it was, they were probably a coin toss away from winning the game. Stupid rule.

They were out-coached by Pete Carroll, but I don't think that's really a slight on Campbell. Carroll had a truly phenomenal game plan while missing two offensive tackles. We weren't generating pressure, but part of that was because Carroll was scheming Geno's first look to be wide open. His average time in the pocket felt very low. That's not to say there weren't a couple of plays where he had all day, but largely the ball was getting out quick. Glenn doesn't really believe in blitzing for whatever reason, but I don't think it was unreasonable to think that Hutch, Houston, and Harris could and should be able to win one-on-one, and they weren't, either because there wasn't enough time or because they just weren't winning battles they should win. This team seems to love Charles Harris, but I'm not sure why through two games. He has not looked like an impact player at all.

RE Campbell, I thought he should have probably punted on the 4th down while up in our own territory, and I thought we should have been more aggressive with the ball late in regulation. It felt like we were moving the ball masterfully into field goal range, working the clock well, and then the 2nd and 7(?) play failed, and we got scared. I know our kicker isn't great, but I don't think there was relative benefit to playing field position there, so long as Goff doesn't take a sack. If Patterson was going to miss a 45-yard field goal he'd probably miss a 40-yard field goal too. I thought the right play there was to get one play to the 10 and, if successful, two shots at the end zone. If it didn't, field goal from 4th and 7. With these OT rules, don't let it possibly come down to a coin toss if you can help it. That said, I don't think either of those mistakes were necessarily terrible decisions, just not things I would have done, that also didn't work.

They're still far better than they were at this point last year, and they were a team that vastly improved as the season progressed last year (like good teams do). I think they've looked like the best team in the division, and the season will come down to winning those. If we go 5-1 like last year, I am very confident we will host a home playoff game. The out-of-division schedule should get a little easier as we go too, with games against the Panthers, Bucs, and Raiders to come.

[RandyMarsh]

I didnt see the players or the grades but I just saw a tweet that said the 6 lowest pff grades for the Lioms were all on the dline.

[Jason_R]

I remember when Holmes drafted Levi O thinking that he didn’t have enough talent to be gambling on injury risks. Then he drafted Jaymo and Hooker. He’s been successful enough in adding talent that these risks aren’t getting a ton of attention, and maybe they will ultimately pay off. But the team is still thin on talent on DL. Hutch is the only difference maker and there is nobody to make opponents pay for double-teaming him. 

[TP_Fan]

35 minutes ago, Longgone said:

Also, and no one seems to want to give him credit, but Geno Smith played his ass off, and while their oline is dinged up, they have a lot of weapons.

He had all day. No one had longer in the pocket than geno yesterya.   

[Hongbit]

If they win next week, they are 2-1 after 3 games, which is a number that everyone would’ve been happy with at the start of the season.  

[KL2]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Agree 100% I get the fear of them coming right back and scoring if you leave too much time on but you shouldn't think like that. That's playing scared, go get the TD and force them to go all the way in under a minute.

There's less of a chance losing the game that way than losing by missing the FG at the end and/or losing in OT.

To many people assume being aggressive results in an auto touchdown and we win

 

So many things could have happened, positive and negative, could have happened.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

I've debated jumping into the fray of the clock management conversation or not. My initial reaction was actually not to roast or even criticize Campbell for it at the end of the game. As a fan, I've often let my emotions and frustrations cloud my opinion making during and immediately after the game. So I've sat around and thought about this since yesterday. I can't help but feel letdown by Campbell being such an aggressive coach, only to get conservative and play for overtime when it mattered most.

Campbell had 3 timeouts remaining in the final 1:20 or whatever it was. His play calling and decision making there showed he was playing for OT. By letting 30 seconds run off the clock before calling a play, not using a timeout to save time, but then using a timeout on the next was poor clock management. Playing for a 50/50 coin toss to get the ball in overtime, as opposed to being your usual aggressive self and playing for the TD and a win, was poor clock management. Don't be aggressive all game long just to get conservative in the end and not play for the TD and the win.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

52 minutes ago, KL2 said:

To many people assume being aggressive results in an auto touchdown and we win

 

So many things could have happened, positive and negative, could have happened.

With all full pack of timeouts, him letting 30 seconds or so run off the lock was poor clock management in my book. Don't you feel like he played safe for OT in the end?

[RedRamage]

13 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

With all full pack of timeouts, him letting 30 seconds or so run off the lock was poor clock management in my book. Don't you feel like he played safe for OT in the end?

I don't think Time Management was an issue. He may have been playing too conservatively... like "Whatever we do, we can NOT blow the chance of getting the game tie-FG." But there was no time management issue. They had timeouts, they (would have been) in the Red Zone on a first down. They would have had time to get the score.

[TP_Fan]

1 minute ago, RedRamage said:

I don't think Time Management was an issue. He may have been playing too conservatively... like "Whatever we do, we can NOT blow the chance of getting the game tie-FG." But there was no time management issue. They had timeouts, they (would have been) in the Red Zone on a first down. They would have had time to get the score.

It was a time management issue. Letting all that time run off early on affected the rest of their play calling. They played for the tie. Not to win. That was disheartening to see. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I thought he handled it perfectly until 2nd and 6 at the Seahawks 23 with 26 seconds left and two timeouts. At that point, you're in position to both score a TD and leave the Seahawks with little time to respond.

When that short pass play to ASB went incomplete, he chose to give Patterson an easier field goal rather than stretch the field a little on 3rd and 6. That turned out to be a 38-yard field goal instead of a 41-yard field goal and I think this was the wrong decision.

I'm not saying to "take a shot", because that's not the type of offense that we really run. But I think a high percentage route on 3rd down picks up the first (instead of the 3-yard pass that Seattle basically was surrendering), and then you have at least one timeout and are about 15 yards from the end zone. That gives you at least two passes to the end zone before resigning yourself to a field goal.

[RedRamage]

Campbell made a couple of comments in his presser about playing as a team, doing your assignment and having faith that the guys next to you will do theirs.

"Instead of being in such a frenzy of 'I'm gonna make a play on my own'-- man -- make a play inside the scheme, inside the system that we've given you because your teammate will do the same thing."

[Mr.TaterSalad]

27 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I don't think Time Management was an issue. He may have been playing too conservatively... like "Whatever we do, we can NOT blow the chance of getting the game tie-FG." But there was no time management issue. They had timeouts, they (would have been) in the Red Zone on a first down. They would have had time to get the score.

I don't think allowing 20+ seconds to run off the clock is good clock management. You can play for the tie if you're under 30-35 seconds or so overall. They were still in place to play for the win with a minute plus and I think they just ceded that and decided to play for a tie. They didn't even attempt a win. They could have used one time out prior to allowing 20 seconds or so run off the clock.

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I don't think allowing 20+ seconds to run off the clock is good clock management. You can play for the tie if you're under 30-35 seconds or so overall. They were still in place to play for the win with a minute plus and I think they just ceded that and decided to play for a tie. They didn't even attempt a win. They could have used one time out prior to allowing 20 seconds or so run off the clock.

Are you talking after the 3rd down?

[sagnam]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I've debated jumping into the fray of the clock management conversation or not. My initial reaction was actually not to roast or even criticize Campbell for it at the end of the game. As a fan, I've often let my emotions and frustrations cloud my opinion making during and immediately after the game. So I've sat around and thought about this since yesterday. I can't help but feel letdown by Campbell being such an aggressive coach, only to get conservative and play for overtime when it mattered most.

Campbell had 3 timeouts remaining in the final 1:20 or whatever it was. His play calling and decision making there showed he was playing for OT. By letting 30 seconds run off the clock before calling a play, not using a timeout to save time, but then using a timeout on the next was poor clock management. Playing for a 50/50 coin toss to get the ball in overtime, as opposed to being your usual aggressive self and playing for the TD and a win, was poor clock management. Don't be aggressive all game long just to get conservative in the end and not play for the TD and the win.

They had 2 timeouts would have had the ball inside the 20 with 30 seconds left.  That’s plenty of time. Not being aggressive is a fair and warranted criticism. The clock management was not an issue at all.  Unless you wanted them to run the ball. Then you would want that time to waste on a RB missing the hole and hitting one of our linemen in the back.

[TP_Fan]

Not only was the most anticipated home opener in maybe ever an unmitigated disaster from a coaching and and on-field aspect, but we were also treated with a barrage of injuries to ensure we will enjoy nothing.

they have no shot. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by TP_Fan

[TP_Fan]

CJGJ out for the season for those that didn’t see. Torn pec. 

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, TP_Fan said:

CJGJ out for the season for those that didn’t see. Torn pec. 

If we were going to lose someone for the season, that's the one position where I feel like we have enough depth to handle it. Walker, Branch, and Joseph will be fine, in my humble opinion.  Not that I wouldn't prefer to have CJGJ around, but if we had to lose someone, that's probably the position I'd pick.

[Sports_Freak]

7 hours ago, RedRamage said:

Are you talking after the 3rd down?

The Lions got the ball at the 50 yard line with 1:40 left and 2 timeouts. They only ran 5 plays and then kicked. They huddled up and never hurried. They played not to lose and didn't play to win. Very conservative at a critical time.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Damn man, can't we ever just have nice things for once!!! This secondary is banged up as it is and didn't play that well last week. To lose potentially our best player in the unit really sucks.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

9 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

The Lions got the ball at the 50 yard line with 1:40 left and 2 timeouts. They only ran 5 plays and then kicked. They huddled up and never hurried. They played not to lose and didn't play to win. Very conservative at a critical time.

Yes, this is what I was referencing above. Although, I was thinking we had all three time outs left and a little less time was on the clock. But it still speaks to the point that Campbell let a good 20-30 seconds unnecessarily run off the clock and if we did only run 5 plays before the FG, that further showcases he wasn't playing to win. He Lloyd Carr'd it and got conservative when it mattered most in the game instead of playing for the win.