Week Thirteen: Detroit Lions (8-3) @ New Orleans Saints (5-6)

[MichiganCardinal]

16 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

I would expect him to be activated as the emergency QB for the playoffs.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[KnoxP]

37 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

In regards to the fake punt, I don't necessarily think GB was expecting it but more so that they happened to be lined up perfectly to stop it. ...

Also I don't buy into the not being able to sneak up on teams anymore. We were one of the most hyped teams all offseason who won 8 of 9 to end the year. Then went and beat the defending champs in their place, that is more than enough for teams to start talking you seriously....

 

On the punt we may be splitting hairs. Expecting it vs. 'hey this may be', not being surprised can yield the same result. Was lined up perfectly just a happy accident or did GB lineup in case?

I love DC and his boldness, it has served well. Teams are prepping for his boldness, they must be adjusting. 

On the 'sneak up', that's really my point. We are being taken seriously.

Edited November 29, 2023 by KnoxP

[Motown Bombers]

I find it hard to believe that after finishing last season 8-2, being hyped all offseason, starting this year 8-2, leading the division the entire season, that teams are just now taking the Lions seriously. Campbell has been aggressive on special teams for 3 years now. Ben Johnson was one of the hottest coaching candidates. If the Lions snuck up on any team this season, that coaching staff needs to be replaced. 

[MichiganCardinal]

I have a hard time believing the sky is falling. They performed too well over the course of like a 16-game stretch to have just forgotten how to football over the last five.

I am worried about the turnovers, and our prospects against QBs that can exploit our defensive backs. Luckily there aren't very many of those in the NFC.

If Goff looks terrible again on Sunday I may make a small step towards the panic button.

[NYLion]

4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

If there is a fault with Holmes and Campbell its maybe swaying too heavy to character and "football guys" instead talent.

Now I don't want a team full of bad characters but it feels like they fall in love with a guys character and put that above everything else. Josh Paschal and Levi come to mind there, its like after they drafted them all they talked about was their character and not how they would make us a better football team on the field. 

Jack Campbell is the epitome of this. Not that he can't be a good player down the line but he's the definition of the "try hard" "character" guy, a guy they fell in love with because of the work ethic and leadership but, realistically, they needed more of an impact player with the 18th pick. Commish, Jacobs, both Harris's, Walker. These are all try hard guys that lack in talent. They'll smack you in the mouth but they just can't keep up against dynamic players. I'd even lump Anzalone in there as well, Barnes, Rodrigo, Paschal.

You can definitely have 3-4 guys like this on your defense but when like 80% of your defense is made up of guys like this, you're going to struggle against more dynamic offenses. They desperately need Houston (not as in the SAM position FFS) and Gardner-Johnson back badly, those two bring a dynamic that nobody on this defense outside of Branch perhaps brings. This defense would have been a lot better in the old era but you need playmakers in the NFL nowadays.

Edited November 29, 2023 by NYLion

[number20]

On 11/28/2023 at 10:15 AM, TP_Fan said:

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2023/11/28/detroit-lions-defense-coaching-blunders-poor-fundamentals-aaron-glenn/?taid=65662727f690820001690255&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Here's another film breakdown

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/lists/lions-vs-packers-film-rview-detroit-takeaways-goff-bad-defense-offensive-line-what-i-learned/

[Motown Bombers]

55 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Jack Campbell is the epitome of this. Not that he can't be a good player down the line but he's the definition of the "try hard" "character" guy, a guy they fell in love with because of the work ethic and leadership but, realistically, they needed more of an impact player with the 18th pick. Commish, Jacobs, both Harris's, Walker. These are all try hard guys that lack in talent. They'll smack you in the mouth but they just can't keep up against dynamic players. I'd even lump Anzalone in there as well, Barnes, Rodrigo, Paschal.

You can definitely have 3-4 guys like this on your defense but when like 80% of your defense is made up of guys like this, you're going to struggle against more dynamic offenses. They desperately need Houston (not as in the SAM position FFS) and Gardner-Johnson back badly, those two bring a dynamic that nobody on this defense outside of Branch perhaps brings. This defense would have been a lot better in the old era but you need playmakers in the NFL nowadays.

Jack Campbell had one of the best RAS scores ever for a LB. You can argue positional value at 18 but he was an exceptional athlete. 

Rodrigue doesn't lack talent, he lacks size. That's why he was a 6th round pick. Barnes is another one that had good talent for a 4th round pick. Ironically, the one defensive player they drafted that has been a standout fell to the 2nd round due to a perceived lack of speed. 

[RandyMarsh]

Im not too concerned with Campbell yet, he's shown flashes he's just been inconsistent and often times just appears to be in the wrong place but he flashes the ability from time to time. I don't know the history of the position but it seems like inside LB may be one of the tougher ones to adapt to in the NFL since you are asked to do so many different things. Its not like say pass rusher where you are just told to basically rush the QB for example. 

Also I wonder if going from the pathetic Big 10 West offenses to NFL offenses is having more of an impact on his adjustment and learning then it would if say he came from an SEC school. 

[Motown Bombers]

I also feel like they wasted a lot of time trying to make Campbell into a pass rusher, something he never did at the college level. 

[Jason_R]

2 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

I find it hard to believe that after finishing last season 8-2, being hyped all offseason, starting this year 8-2, leading the division the entire season, that teams are just now taking the Lions seriously. Campbell has been aggressive on special teams for 3 years now. Ben Johnson was one of the hottest coaching candidates. If the Lions snuck up on any team this season, that coaching staff needs to be replaced. 

No but after the previous two games —and seasons — GB wanted to punch Detroit in the mouth. Lafleur said they had the game circled. Campbell said he didn’t have his team prepared. I take them both at face value. 

[Motown Bombers]

4 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

No but after the previous two games —and seasons — GB wanted to punch Detroit in the mouth. Lafleur said they had the game circled. Campbell said he didn’t have his team prepared. I take them both at face value. 

I mean, I figured they would have wanted to do that the 1st game of the season after the Lions eliminated them from the playoffs and 1st place in the division was at stake. 

[Jason_R]

3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

If Jackson plays I feel good that they can put up enough points to beat NO. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Im not too concerned with Campbell yet, he's shown flashes he's just been inconsistent and often times just appears to be in the wrong place but he flashes the ability from time to time. I don't know the history of the position but it seems like inside LB may be one of the tougher ones to adapt to in the NFL since you are asked to do so many different things. Its not like say pass rusher where you are just told to basically rush the QB for example. 

Also I wonder if going from the pathetic Big 10 West offenses to NFL offenses is having more of an impact on his adjustment and learning then it would if say he came from an SEC school. 

it takes time to learn how to be an nfl linebacker.  the issue with campbell was taking him at 17, not that he wasnt athletic.  he's very athletic.

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, I figured they would have wanted to do that the 1st game of the season after the Lions eliminated them from the playoffs and 1st place in the division was at stake. 

There are two sides to the equation. Detroit was clearly not ready for GB. Campbell admitted as much.

Campbell also talked about how much prep work his coaching staff did on a short week -- not much. So did Lafleur. GB's staff put in more work game planning than Detroit's did. 

Detroit got outplayed and outcoached. 

[TP_Fan]

Just now, Jason_R said:

There are two sides to the equation. Detroit was clearly not ready for GB. Campbell admitted as much.

Campbell also talked about how much prep work his coaching staff did on a short week -- not much. So did Lafleur. GB's staff put in more work game planning than Detroit's did. 

Detroit got outplayed and outcoached. 

Didn’t Campbell say they did too much? He said the offense installed too much for a short week.  

[Jason_R]

24 minutes ago, TP_Fan said:

Didn’t Campbell say they did too much? He said the offense installed too much for a short week.  

"You got to have just enough wrinkles to make sure you're not a sitting duck," head coach Dan Campbell said. "Yet you don't want to do so much that you slow your own guys down."

Lafleur agonizing over the first (tone setting) play: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/27/packers-matt-lafleur-thanksgiving-win-lions-love-watson

[NYLion]

5 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Jack Campbell had one of the best RAS scores ever for a LB. You can argue positional value at 18 but he was an exceptional athlete. 

Rodrigue doesn't lack talent, he lacks size. That's why he was a 6th round pick. Barnes is another one that had good talent for a 4th round pick. Ironically, the one defensive player they drafted that has been a standout fell to the 2nd round due to a perceived lack of speed. 

Campbell is athletic but he's not explosive or a fluid mover, his movements are stiff. I'm sure he'll be a solid player but I don't see him as a dynamic playmaker or as somebody that will really impact the defense. I think you need more than "solid" at 18. I'm sure they liked the athletic profile but Campbell is the prototypical Dan Campbell guy so I think they saw him as the best culture fit of the available players. He was a reach pick.

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Campbell is athletic but he's not explosive or a fluid mover, his movements are stiff. I'm sure he'll be a solid player but I don't see him as a dynamic playmaker or as somebody that will really impact the defense. I think you need more than "solid" at 18. I'm sure they liked the athletic profile but Campbell is the prototypical Dan Campbell guy so I think they saw him as the best culture fit of the available players. He was a reach pick.

I think he's got the potential to be a really solid piece on the defense. Maybe not All Pro and known nationwide, but a guy who people in Detroit point to as being. focal point of the defense's success. I also think he's got the potential to be a captain and a real leader on the defense.

I also don't think he was their first choice at 18. They wanted Christian Gonzalez and when he went at 17 they had to improvise.

[1984Echoes]

I think the primary issue with Campbell right now is he has to think too much. That slows his reaction times down.

We won't know exactly what he is until he starts reading offenses better/ faster, and can just react with instincts instead of thinking about his responsibilities and where to go. When the game slows down for him, then we'll see what we've got.

I believe this is normal for 1st year LB'ers, most of 'em... because there's so many reads/ responsibilities that they have...

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Motown Bombers]

Jamaal Williams is averaging a full yard less per carry with the Saints than with the Lions. Montgomery is averaging almost a full yard per carry more with the Lions than with the Bears. It's as if the Lions have a good offensive line. 

[RandyMarsh]

54 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Jamaal Williams is averaging a full yard less per carry with the Saints than with the Lions. Montgomery is averaging almost a full yard per carry more with the Lions than with the Bears. It's as if the Lions have a good offensive line. 

Yep I also credit Ben Johnson's play calling and designs, he has some of the most intricate rushing designs and blocking schemes in the league and to the offensive lines credit they pull them off. Also the fact that he will call rushing plays on traditional passing situations like the 2nd and 10 run or 3rd and 7 or 8 run helps boost their yards per carry. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Jason_R]

2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yep I also credit Ben Johnson's play calling and designs, he has some of the most intricate rushing designs and blocking schemes in the league and to the offensive lines credit they pull them off. Also the fact that he will call rushing plays on traditional passing situations like the 2nd and 10 run or 3rd and 7 or 8 run helps boost their yards per carry. 

Like 4th and 5. 😂

Who else has the stones to call it and the OL to execute it?

[RedRamage]

15 hours ago, NYLion said:

Campbell is athletic but he's not explosive or a fluid mover, his movements are stiff. I'm sure he'll be a solid player but I don't see him as a dynamic playmaker or as somebody that will really impact the defense. I think you need more than "solid" at 18. I'm sure they liked the athletic profile but Campbell is the prototypical Dan Campbell guy so I think they saw him as the best culture fit of the available players. He was a reach pick.

FWIW, that fluidity and explosiveness could come. As someone who's not too far removed from teaching his kids to drive I think there's some parallels there. When you're first learning to drive you're learning all the pieces and part and bits and bobs and thinking about all the aspects. This tends to make you drive "stiff." You don't ease to a stop, you brake suddenly. You don't ease into a turn, you turn sharply. You don't fluidly change lanes on the highway, you end up slowing down, whipping your head back and forth, then you jerk over when you make the decision to do so.

Fast forward a couple of years when your much more instinctive as a driver... when you know how your car will respond, when you know where all the controls are without having to think about it. Everything is smoothly, more even and you're a much better, more confident, more accurate driver. This COULD happen with rookie players as well.