Week Fifteen: Denver Broncos (7-6) @ Detroit Lions (9-4)

[MichiganCardinal]

          vs.          

Setting: 12/16/2023, 8:15pm on FOX

Site: Ford Field in Detroit, MI

Weather: Climate Controlled

Opening Spread: Lions -4

All-Time Series Record: Broncos lead, 9-5

Last Meeting: 12/12/2021, Broncos won 38-10

 

Denver Broncos (7-6)

Head Coach: Sean Payton (16th Season: 158-95)

Projected Starting QB: Russell Wilson (12th Season: 115-70-1)

Last Week: 24-7 W @ Los Angeles Chargers (5-8)

Looking Ahead to Week #16: Sunday Night v. New England Patriots (3-10)

 

Your Detroit Lions (9-4)

Head Coach: Dan Campbell (3rd Season: 21-25-1)

Projected Starting QB: Jared Goff (8th Season: 63-49-1)

Last Week: 28-13 L @ Chicago Bears (5-8)

Looking Ahead to Week #16: Sunday @ Minnesota Vikings (7-6)

 

Elsewhere in the NFL

Primetime: Chargers @ Raiders (TNF), Ravens @ Jaguars (SNF), Eagles @ Seahawks (MNF)

Saturday: Vikings @ Bengals (1:00pm), Steelers @ Colts (4:30pm)

1:00pm: Falcons @ Panthers, Bears @ Browns, Jets @ Dolphins, Buccaneers @ Packers, Giants @ Saints, Texans @ Titans, Chiefs @ Patriots

4:05/4:25pm: 49ers @ Cardinals, Commanders @ Rams, Cowboys @ Bills

[MichiganCardinal]

[holygoat]

I've shifted from expecting the Lions to win most games to expecting them to lose most of them. It's like someone took a picture of last season, threw it into Photoshop and clicked "flip canvas horizontal."

Broncos win 33-17.

[buddha]

lions win this one.

[Hongbit]

This isn’t a must win but it’s close.  Let’s all hope for a Giants upset win over the Pack tonight.    If not,  they will probably have to beat the Vikes 2 times to get in over GB.  
 

 

[Jason_R]

I need to push a little bit more. I’m just gonna need to be a little more irritable, which I can do that.

--Detroit coach Dan Campbell, after the Lions lost their second of the last three at Chicago Sunday.

[RatkoVarda]

they are more focused when they are the hunter, rather than the hunted. that's on DC

[Mr.TaterSalad]

55 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

I need to push a little bit more. I’m just gonna need to be a little more irritable, which I can do that.

--Detroit coach Dan Campbell, after the Lions lost their second of the last three at Chicago Sunday.

I wish he was talking to his coordinators too and not just his players.

[Jason_R]

12 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I wish he was talking to his coordinators too and not just his players.

How do you know he’s not talking to the coordinators?

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

they are more focused when they are the hunter, rather than the hunted. that's on DC

This may serve them well if they back into the playoffs. Everyone will be counting them out again expecting a first-round loss.

[buddha]

things were not as good as it seemed when they were winning and its not as bad as it seems when theyre losing.  its the nfl, its a week to week league.

houston just lost to the jets by three touchdowns.  the niners lost three ganes in a row.  the eagles have been blown out two straight weeks.  

with that said, the lions were never a SB contender, imo.  theyre in that happy middle, but towards the top of the middle.  10-11 wins is a good season for where they are.  they still need jamo to develop into a star receiver and to get some - ANY - pass rush.

this team is going to look very different next year.  the okwara brothers will be gone.  charles harris will be gone.  tracy walker is trending to be gone.  they'll need new safeties.  they'll need at least one cornerback.  maybe 3.

and what do you do with goff?  to me you dont do anything and you let goff play out next season and hope hooker develops into a viable alternative for 2025.  i wouldnt sign goff long term unless hooker shows you nothing.  then i would re-sign goff.

how long can ragnow play with his foot injuries?  do you splash for jonah jackson?  how many DEs do you sign?  part of me hopes they sign chase young so tater can have something to talk about for next season.  😉

 

[MichiganCardinal]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

things were not as good as it seemed when they were winning and its not as bad as it seems when theyre losing.  its the nfl, its a week to week league.

houston just lost to the jets by three touchdowns.  the niners lost three ganes in a row.  the eagles have been blown out two straight weeks.  

with that said, the lions were never a SB contender, imo.  theyre in that happy middle, but towards the top of the middle.  10-11 wins is a good season for where they are.  they still need jamo to develop into a star receiver and to get some - ANY - pass rush.

this team is going to look very different next year.  the okwara brothers will be gone.  charles harris will be gone.  tracy walker is trending to be gone.  they'll need new safeties.  they'll need at least one cornerback.  maybe 3.

and what do you do with goff?  to me you dont do anything and you let goff play out next season and hope hooker develops into a viable alternative for 2025.  i wouldnt sign goff long term unless hooker shows you nothing.  then i would re-sign goff.

how long can ragnow play with his foot injuries?  do you splash for jonah jackson?  how many DEs do you sign?  part of me hopes they sign chase young so tater can have something to talk about for next season.  😉

 

Get outta here with that ‘voice of reason’ schtick and grab a torch or pitchfork!

[buddha]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Get outta here with that ‘voice of reason’ schtick and grab a torch or pitchfork!

i could go on...jacksonville just gave up 31 to cleveland's third string qb...the vikings scored 3 points on vegas and have nick mullens starting and JJ hurt again...

but im a lions pessimist so this is just water finding its level, imo.

[CMRivdogs]

29 minutes ago, buddha said:

part of me hopes they sign chase young so tater can have something to talk about for next season.  

 

young will end up being injured a majority of the season and he'll continue to whine about the "inept brain trust"

[MichiganCardinal]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

but im a lions pessimist so this is just water finding its level, imo.

I don’t think these have to be together. I’m not necessarily pessimistic but I think it’s fair to say that water is finding its level.

When they won 8/9 to finish last season, and then went into Arrowhead and beat the Chiefs, I think I had pegged them as a top three team in the NFC and a top 5-7 team in the NFL. And now, as Goff has come back to earth and the defense has continued what it’s done as long as Glenn has been the DC, it’s fair to temper expectations some.

I still think they have a puncher’s chance against anybody in the NFC. But it probably wasn’t fair to expect Goff to maintain a historic trek, or the defense to magically improve.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

2 hours ago, Jason_R said:

How do you know he’s not talking to the coordinators?

I don't know for certain. But after the game yesterday when TJ Lang interviewed him he seemed to elude in his postgame quote that he felt player discipline was the issue and not coaching. This is what he said to TJ: "It was discipline that cost us. Not effort, not coaching, not scheme."

[NYLion]

13 hours ago, holygoat said:

I've shifted from expecting the Lions to win most games to expecting them to lose most of them. It's like someone took a picture of last season, threw it into Photoshop and clicked "flip canvas horizontal."

Broncos win 33-17.

It's been the complete flip of a switch and just about all of it has to do with the offense/Goff all of a sudden becoming turnover machines. The defense was always suspect even when they weren't giving up as many points mostly because the offense was possessing the ball and essentially playing keepaway. Now it seems like defenses have adjusted to the Lions intermediate game and are sitting on those routes and the Lions/Ben Johnson have had no Plan B to adjust.

This is one of the big reasons why it's hard to imagine extending Goff at franchise money because once you take away what he's good at, he doesn't have another gear to solve it. That's a hell of a decision they have with the Goff extension. If you extend him, you're hitching your wagon to him as THE guy and probably cap your potential as a result while also restricting what you can build around Goff because of the big contract but if you look to trade him and roll with Hooker then you risk a setback for more potential down the road and a lot more cap space along with the assets gained from the Goff trade to build a stronger roster. I don't envy Holmes with this decision.

Edited December 11, 2023 by NYLion

[Motown Bombers]

Why would you sign Goff based on what Hooker does? Either Goff is or isn't your QB. If your just signing him because you don't have better option, that sounds kind of bad. 

[RandyMarsh]

I feel like I'm in Bizarro World with Buddha being the most positive out of everybody and being the voice of reason.

Edited December 11, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[Motown Bombers]

18 minutes ago, NYLion said:

It's been the complete flip of a switch and just about all of it has to do with the offense/Goff all of a sudden becoming turnover machines. The defense was always suspect even when they weren't giving up as many points mostly because the offense was possessing the ball and essentially playing keepaway. Now it seems like defenses have adjusted to the Lions intermediate game and are sitting on those routes and the Lions/Ben Johnson have had no Plan B to adjust.

This is one of the big reasons why it's hard to imagine extending Goff at franchise money because once you take away what he's good at, he doesn't have another gear to solve it. That's a hell of a decision they have with the Goff extension. If you extend him, you're hitching your wagon to him as THE guy and probably cap your potential as a result while also restricting what you can build around Goff because of the big contract but if you look to trade him and roll with Hooker then you risk a setback for more potential down the road and a lot more cap space along with the assets gained from the Goff trade to build a stronger roster. I don't envy Holmes with this decision.

They only have one training camp to decide. Hooker may be 27 before he starts his first NFL game. Goff just turned 29 and is in his 8th season.

[Motown Bombers]

Eagles got crushed in back to back games, defense is worse than the Lions, Hurts is turning the ball over more than Goff, they are tied in the division but they are real contenders and the Lions are not. 

[RandyMarsh]

Btw the two Goff ints yesterday I really don't count as true turnovers since they were on 4th and longs. If it was any other down he very well may not even attempt either throw. 

[TP_Fan]

3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Btw the two Goff ints yesterday I really don't count as true turnovers since they were on 4th and longs. If it was any other down he very well may not even attempt either throw. 

Eh, kind of evened out in my mind.  Couple of other throws that should have been picked but were just dropped by the D.  3 turnovers is about accurate.

Picks aside, I am more concerned with the picks and the amount of ducks he throws.  He doesn’t throw a good ball. 

[TP_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Eagles got crushed in back to back games, defense is worse than the Lions, Hurts is turning the ball over more than Goff, they are tied in the division but they are real contenders and the Lions are not. 

Who cares about the eagles.  We are worried about the lions. And they look bad.  

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Btw the two Goff ints yesterday I really don't count as true turnovers since they were on 4th and longs. If it was any other down he very well may not even attempt either throw. 

The 4th and 10 was basically a punt. The Lions benefited from it being picked off vs incomplete. The 2nd one was a 4th and 24 desperation heave. Even the fumble I would put at 50/50 between him and Glasgow. Glasgow double clutched it but Goff had a chance to still take it.