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It's only a matter of time until a major gambling scandal blows up in one of these sports (I think it'll be college basketball - it seems the most vulnerable), but these sports marrying legal gambling is just a disaster waiting to happen.     But even with it being legal, it is NOT in California, so I don't want to hear bull**** about "it wasn't on baseball".   Doesn't matter.  If it was in California, he doesn't need to be doing it at all.    Players should be advised to stay away from it altogether.  These guys careers are over by 40, they'll have a lot of life left to gamble after that.      Like our feeling that Cam Sutton running is a sign of guilt, so is changing stories and being generally evasive.  He's innocent until proven guilty, but I just don't believe him.    It's possibly a very tough spot for Rob Manfred.   Do you have confidence that he'll do something that makes sense? 

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Why did his story change?    First he was covering his debts and now the guy stole the money.    Which is it? 

 

 

you mean a hyperfocused athlete doesnt know whats going on with everything in his life ? shocking ... there are million rockstars fleeced by thier business people this isnt surprising .... and maybe hes embrassed 

 

I just question gleeiful pissing on a star that is making baseball popular worldwide 

Edited by Toddwert
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I just read a piece on Ohtani that was interesting. If Ohtani made ZERO dollars playing for the Dodgers this year he would still make more than any other player in 2024 based on endorsements in the US and Japan. Raking it in!

Edited by 1776
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Will a sign just signed a 10 year deal which includes deferred payments of $5M annually from 2034 to 2043.  It seems like more long term deals are including deferrals.  I’m not sure that this is going in a good direction.  Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know.  But it just seems like kicking a debt can down the road for someone else to deal with.

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14 hours ago, 1776 said:

I just read a piece on Ohtani that was interesting. If Ohtani made ZERO dollars playing for the Dodgers this year he would still make more than any other player in 2024 based on endorsements in the US and Japan. Raking it in!

Before or after his gambl ... er, gaming los ... err, downward adjustments?

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1 minute ago, Toddwert said:

i know your joking .... but if he made anywhere close to 100 Million gambling people would know

Has anyone ever actually made 100 million dollars on gambling? Seems like anyone at that level of action is going to figure out how to make it less of a gamble and more of a sure thing.

In any event, I don't think the issue is how much money Shohei might have made on gambling, as much as he might be involved in gambling himself. After all, Pete Rose also denied it over and over until investigators saw how Red his hands were. (See what I did there?)

I'm not saying I believe Ohtani is a degenerate gambler like Pete Rose. But I also don't believe he simply because he read a prepared statement averring he never gambles, or because an entire media apparatus dedicated to promoting Ohtani as the future of the game insists that he has never gambled.

I do know this, based on reporting to date: Ippei, an $85,000/year working stiff to whom an illegal bookmaker saw fit to extend $4.5 million in credit, felt very comfortable telling ESPN that his good friend Shohei helped him out of a jam by arranging nine wire transfers of $500,000 a pop from his account to the same bookmaker in 2022 and 2023, and an Ohtani spokesman felt very comfortable in confirming right afterwards that yes, that's exactly what happened. Then, 12 hours later, the Ohtani camp ran a truck back and forth over the remains of Ippei's career by claiming he had perpetrated a massive theft that nobody, including the accountants or his agent, who were employed by Shohei Ohtani Inc. ever noticed even once over the course of more than a year.

That's why I'm waiting for federal investigators to dig into and report on it. Until then, I will gleefully engage in speculation based on reporting to date.

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2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Has anyone ever actually made 100 million dollars on gambling? Seems like anyone at that level of action is going to figure out how to make it less of a gamble and more of a sure thing.

In any event, I don't think the issue is how much money Shohei might have made on gambling, as much as he might be involved in gambling himself. After all, Pete Rose also denied it over and over until investigators saw how Red his hands were. (See what I did there?)

I'm not saying I believe Ohtani is a degenerate gambler like Pete Rose. But I also don't believe he simply because he read a prepared statement averring he never gambles, or because an entire media apparatus dedicated to promoting Ohtani as the future of the game insists that he has never gambled.

I do know this, based on reporting to date: Ippei, an $85,000/year working stiff to whom an illegal bookmaker saw fit to extend $4.5 million in credit, felt very comfortable telling ESPN that his good friend Shohei helped him out of a jam by arranging nine wire transfers of $500,000 a pop from his account to the same bookmaker in 2022 and 2023, and an Ohtani spokesman felt very comfortable in confirming right afterwards that yes, that's exactly what happened. Then, 12 hours later, the Ohtani camp ran a truck back and forth over the remains of Ippei's career by claiming he had perpetrated a massive theft that nobody, including the accountants or his agent, who were employed by Shohei Ohtani Inc. ever noticed even once over the course of more than a year.

That's why I'm waiting for federal investigators to dig into and report on it. Until then, I will gleefully engage in speculation based on reporting to date.

and I question the ability of various reporters around this to do any real digging around because they have to protect their access and the outfit they work for probably has financial agreements with the league, if they aren't outright owned by the league.  And is there really a difference that these bets were made with a bookie and not fanduel or betrivers?  I don't think so.   That's like saying "You went to this after hours blind pig and got drunk and got lap dances from girls rather than the brick and mortar location that sponsors us".

The sports leagues can't pretend that there's this hard line between the players gambling and everybody else gambling.  I"ve seen tweets referencing basketball players getting hit up on Venmo to help cover legal prop bets.  I saw a reference to coaches getting threats by gamblers.

You encourage your fans to bet and some of them will get desperate and out of millions of gamblers out there then mathematically it's a near certainty that at some point a crackpot will lose big and take it out on a participant.  Having a disclaimer "To bet resonsibly" doesn't alleviate any moral link.

I think in 5 years we'll have handheld betting consoles in our seats so we can do it during the game.  It wil be linked to our season ticket account.  "Hey, place some bets to help pay for your tickets next year!"

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48 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Has anyone ever actually made 100 million dollars on gambling? Seems like anyone at that level of action is going to figure out how to make it less of a gamble and more of a sure thing.

In any event, I don't think the issue is how much money Shohei might have made on gambling, as much as he might be involved in gambling himself. After all, Pete Rose also denied it over and over until investigators saw how Red his hands were. (See what I did there?)

I'm not saying I believe Ohtani is a degenerate gambler like Pete Rose. But I also don't believe he simply because he read a prepared statement averring he never gambles, or because an entire media apparatus dedicated to promoting Ohtani as the future of the game insists that he has never gambled.

I do know this, based on reporting to date: Ippei, an $85,000/year working stiff to whom an illegal bookmaker saw fit to extend $4.5 million in credit, felt very comfortable telling ESPN that his good friend Shohei helped him out of a jam by arranging nine wire transfers of $500,000 a pop from his account to the same bookmaker in 2022 and 2023, and an Ohtani spokesman felt very comfortable in confirming right afterwards that yes, that's exactly what happened. Then, 12 hours later, the Ohtani camp ran a truck back and forth over the remains of Ippei's career by claiming he had perpetrated a massive theft that nobody, including the accountants or his agent, who were employed by Shohei Ohtani Inc. ever noticed even once over the course of more than a year.

That's why I'm waiting for federal investigators to dig into and report on it. Until then, I will gleefully engage in speculation based on reporting to date.

I think its likely that he was treading on his friendship with Ohtani and maybe Ohtani thought better of the relationship after thinking about it for 12 hours and thats why Ippei got thrown under the bus... my point is to be worth it for Ohtani to be this Degenerate gambler the money would have to huge. I mean if this ruins his career he stands to lose up to a Billion Dollars

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In other news:

Tampa Bay Rays shortstop Wander Franco has been placed back on paid administrative leave through June 1, as part of a joint agreement between MLBand the MLBPA, a league source said Thursday. The agreement was first reported by the Tampa Bay Times.

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31 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

I think its likely that he was treading on his friendship with Ohtani and maybe Ohtani thought better of the relationship after thinking about it for 12 hours and thats why Ippei got thrown under the bus... my point is to be worth it for Ohtani to be this Degenerate gambler the money would have to huge. I mean if this ruins his career he stands to lose up to a Billion Dollars

I don't think that's necessarily true of Ohtani. Not everybody gets into gambling to make life-changing money. Some do it for small stakes, relative to them, anyway. Maybe that's Ohtani. Or maybe he doesn't gamble at all. We have no way of knowing even given his denials and MLB's wishful thinking. We have to wait for the Feds to dive into it, and hope that they are not being influenced by Baseball during the investigation.

As for he or any other player risking his careers on gambling: I'm not sure players think about it that way anymore, despite the posting of Rule 21(d) in clubhouses, which by now has to look like just so much wallpaper to players. Baseball, like any other authoritarian force like employers or pastors or parents, like to tell us "Do as I say, not as I do". (That was practically my mother's catchphrase.) But players aren't blind: they see Baseball, and other sports, raking in billions from gambling, so if daddy acts like gambling is OK, how are the kids gonna be expected to avoid it?

Remember when baseball suspended Mickey and Willie for a year just for being casino greeters in Atlantic City? Baseball had no tolerance for gambling of any kind anywhere near their sport as long as the Black Sox scandal was still in living memory. But no one is alive to remember it firsthand any longer, and it seems so much like ancient history these days. So now, with no one left to tell the story any longer, Baseball is trying to thread the needle in a very fine way: it's OK if you players gamble on this, but not that; and it's OK if you gamble there, but not here; and you can't gamble during this timeframe, but you can gamble any other time all you want. How can we expect thousands of players up and down their system to keep all that straight and toe that line exactly? And how are you going to keep gambling proxies from consorting with ballplayers?

Baseball, like every other megabusiness, is trying to reap all the good while brooming all the bad out of sight under the rug. They might get away with it for a while, maybe even this time, if they can successfully convince the world that it was merely one bad apple who doesn't even play the game, for cry eye. But the day of reckoning is guaranteed to come, it will be ugly, and there will be drama and changes. Maybe not this month, or this year, or even a few years, but eventually, and inevitably.

Edited by chasfh
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9 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

McNeil from the Mets.  You're supposed to get the ball and get out of the way.   Don't blame Hoskins on that. 

I don’t know. I mean, based on all of our histories with baseball for the last half century or so, we all see that as perfectly cricket. But they did explicitly make a rule to ban slides exactly like that, and Hoskins broke that ban. On the video I heard Darling says he thought it was a clean slide, but he’s in his 60s, too, so he might not have internalized the memo completely yet.

Hoskins did make McNeil’s knee buckle, so a serious injury could have ensued. And McNeil restricted his encounter with Hoskins to yelling, and Hoskins just trotted away like nothing happened, and didn’t reply to McNeil until he was 50 or so feet away. That’s a very 2024 thing to happen.

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