2024 MLB Thread

[chasfh]

Related to our topic: 

 

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Related to our topic: 

 

it's not *that* unusual. Every athlete in an endurance competition knows what it is to find a sustainable pace a step down from max effort that's going to enable them to win the most in the end. Not to mention if you define "best self" as the most winning overall, than you have to endure to be your 'best' self.

[chasfh]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

it's not *that* unusual. Every athlete in an endurance competition knows what it is to find a sustainable pace a step down from max effort that's going to enable them to win the most in the end. Not to mention if you define "best self" as the most winning overall, than you have to endure to be your 'best' self.

The idea that an athlete would expend just enough energy needed to win the game sounds reasonable on paper. But considering that most professional ballplayers are actively striving to either make the majors, or to keep from getting sent down to the minors, every single pitch adds to a body of work against which he will be judged worthy or unworthy. I don’t see where a Mud Hen pitcher lays up just enough to still be able to win a minor league game, when doing so affects the record he and his career prospects will be judged on. In the end, he is judged on his personal pitching record, not his team’s win-loss record. 

Edited April 10 by chasfh

[gehringer_2]

34 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The idea that an athlete would expend just enough energy needed to win the game sounds reasonable on paper.

right. My point just being that max physical effort is not the key in much sports competition. A basketball player doesn't generally hurl the ball at the basket, a successful QB doesn't make every throw at max velo. Baseball is supposed to be a skill game. Any hitter that swings as hard as he can on every pitch or makes every throw in the field at max effort is also going to find himself back in the minors - effort moderated by skill is a core of baseball performance. But somehow the game has allowed itself to evolve to where there is too much performance value in max effort all the time for pitchers as compared to command, sequencing, guile, and other less physically taxing aspects of the art. So it goes back to  restructuring the game so that a pitcher that keeps hitters off balance and induces a lot of weak contact and picks his spots to throw gas, can still be just as successful as a pitcher that racks up a lot of K's.

Edited April 10 by gehringer_2

[Motor City Sonics]

In the book and movie The World According To Garp,  Garp and his wife are looking at a potential new house when a small plane, sputtering in the distance descends and crashes in to the side of the house and into an upstairs bedroom.  The pilot (alone in plane), apparently uninjured steps out of the plane and politely asks "May I use your phone?".     Garp then proclaims "we'll take it!".   His stunned wife reacts and Garp says   "This house has been pre-disastered, we'll be safe here".    

Have we, having gone through all the pitching injuries in 2022 and 2023, been "pre-disastered".    Seeing all these other pitchers fall, I feel like we already went through it.   Doesn't mean we're safe, but feels like we were ahead of the curve on this one. 

[Hongbit]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

In the book and movie The World According To Garp,  Garp and his wife are looking at a potential new house when a small plane, sputtering in the distance descends and crashes in to the side of the house and into an upstairs bedroom.  The pilot (alone in plane), apparently uninjured steps out of the plane and politely asks "May I use your phone?".     Garp then proclaims "we'll take it!".   His stunned wife reacts and Garp says   "This house has been pre-disastered, we'll be safe here".    

Have we, having gone through all the pitching injuries in 2022 and 2023, been "pre-disastered".    Seeing all these other pitchers fall, I feel like we already went through it.   Doesn't mean we're safe, but feels like we were ahead of the curve on this one. 

This seems more like the end to A Prayer For Owen Meany

[casimir]

I heard this mentioned from Trevor Plouffe (I think) in regards to the baseball.  I hadn’t thought of this aspect of “deadening” the baseball, actually taking out the hardness to help the grip.  And maybe it’s a well known theory that I just didn’t realize myself.  But the grip on the baseball might be contributing to injury as well.  The harder the baseball, the tougher it is to grip, the harder a pitcher is going to have hold the baseball.  So, following his theory, the pretacked baseball is easier to grip, and should reduce injury.

[Motor City Sonics]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

I heard this mentioned from Trevor Plouffe (I think) in regards to the baseball.  I hadn’t thought of this aspect of “deadening” the baseball, actually taking out the hardness to help the grip.  And maybe it’s a well known theory that I just didn’t realize myself.  But the grip on the baseball might be contributing to injury as well.  The harder the baseball, the tougher it is to grip, the harder a pitcher is going to have hold the baseball.  So, following his theory, the pretacked baseball is easier to grip, and should reduce injury.

I don't understand why they felt the need to mess with the baseball.   Seems like they've done it several times too.   

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't understand why they felt the need to mess with the baseball.   Seems like they've done it several times too.   

I'll go back to my earlier contention. I'm not sure they necessarily  even did anything on purpose, it may just have been natural evolution in the manufacturing process toward greater quality control resulting less variability but at a higher average compression limit still within the spec. The problem is that they got all reactionary about it and refused to admit anything happened because they like the result (HR record chases). So now too many people in league management have staked their credibility on the denial that the baseball changed.

[casimir]

Whatever comes out of this issue, the "fix" ain't happening overnight.  That much we can probably all agree upon.

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

right. My point just being that max physical effort is not the key in much sports competition. A basketball player doesn't generally hurl the ball at the basket, a successful QB doesn't make every throw at max velo. Baseball is supposed to be a skill game. Any hitter that swings as hard as he can on every pitch or makes every throw in the field at max effort is also going to find himself back in the minors - effort moderated by skill is a core of baseball performance. But somehow the game has allowed itself to evolve to where there is too much performance value in max effort all the time for pitchers as compared to command, sequencing, guile, and other less physically taxing aspects of the art. So it goes back to  restructuring the game so that a pitcher that keeps hitters off balance and induces a lot of weak contact and picks his spots to throw gas, can still be just as successful as a pitcher that racks up a lot of K's.

Which leads to the $64 question, how does the game get restructured to lead to this? And bonus question, when needs to happen for Baseball to care enough to address it?

[chasfh]

10 hours ago, casimir said:

I heard this mentioned from Trevor Plouffe (I think) in regards to the baseball.  I hadn’t thought of this aspect of “deadening” the baseball, actually taking out the hardness to help the grip.  And maybe it’s a well known theory that I just didn’t realize myself.  But the grip on the baseball might be contributing to injury as well.  The harder the baseball, the tougher it is to grip, the harder a pitcher is going to have hold the baseball.  So, following his theory, the pretacked baseball is easier to grip, and should reduce injury.

That might help on the one count, although I’m not sure it would help keep balls from flying out of the park, so pitchers would still need max/max effort on every pitch to avoid that outcome.

[oblong]

22 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Which leads to the $64 question, how does the game get restructured to lead to this? And bonus question, when needs to happen for Baseball to care enough to address it?

Not being able to insure pitcher contracts and enough teams stuck with guys on the books long term with these injuries.

As long as it affects non FA eligible players then owners won't care all that much. 

[chasfh]

16 minutes ago, oblong said:

Not being able to insure pitcher contracts and enough teams stuck with guys on the books long term with these injuries.

As long as it affects non FA eligible players then owners won't care all that much. 

I wonder what percentage of pitcher contracts are successfully insured? How common was the Strasburg contract situation? That would give us an idea of how far things would have to go to wake up the owners.

Maybe that’s one reason hardly anybody was getting super long deals this winter—teams couldn’t get reasonably-priced insurance, so enough of them said no to drive down the market on pitchers and other players with injury history. Not the Dodgers, of course, because they have funny money. And Nola and Hader have both been horses so it was probably easy to insure them.

[oblong]

18 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I wonder what percentage of pitcher contracts are successfully insured? How common was the Strasburg contract situation? That would give us an idea of how far things would have to go to wake up the owners.

Maybe that’s one reason hardly anybody was getting super long deals this winter—teams couldn’t get reasonably-priced insurance, so enough of them said no to drive down the market on pitchers and other players with injury history. Not the Dodgers, of course, because they have funny money. And Nola and Hader have both been horses so it was probably easy to insure them.

I've heard it said that the cost to insure can be prohibitive anyway.... that makes me think not very many get insured.  But I have no idea. 

[casimir]

49 minutes ago, oblong said:

Not being able to insure pitcher contracts and enough teams stuck with guys on the books long term with these injuries.

As long as it affects non FA eligible players then owners won't care all that much. 

Pitchers are going to be like running backs?  Use them up, kick them to the side once they've broken down with newer & cheaper editions.

[casimir]

Anyone else curious to see what the Oakland city connects look like?

[chasfh]

Looks like we are quickly closing in on the "and they lived happily ever after" conclusion to the story.

 

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

 

I understand it's not the point you are making, but if Jackson Jobe were elevated to the majors today, it would not be the four youngest players all named Jackson, since Evan Carter is younger than he.

[oblong]

 

[Tigeraholic1]

4 hours ago, casimir said:

Anyone else curious to see what the Oakland city connects look like?

[Toddwert]

Oakland may not be that bad JP Sears has a nono going against the Rangers in the 6th

[casimir]

1 hour ago, Toddwert said:

Oakland may not be that bad JP Sears has a nono going against the Rangers in the 6th

One hitter over 6 1/3 inning.  Got his ERA down to 5.17.

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, oblong said:

 

Better than a tanto in a linen wrapper I suppose...