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5/23 6:40PM Blue Jays @ Tigers


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9 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Which Tiger team will show up?  The one that can go in and win a series in AZ or the one that can't avoid being swept in KC?   

Neither.  The Mud Hens and Tigers are going to swap out for the series.

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2 hours ago, romad1 said:

Which Tiger team will show up?  The one that can go in and win a series in AZ or the one that can't avoid being swept in KC?   

Over the course of this series, both teams will show up. They'll score 8 runs and get shutout the next day.

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Jace Jung might end up coming up sooner than later, although he'll likely hit a ceiling at the plate once he were to get here, and he has a stone for a glove at third in Toledo right now. So who knows.

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26 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Jace Jung might end up coming up sooner than later, although he'll likely hit a ceiling at the plate once he were to get here, and he has a stone for a glove at third in Toledo right now. So who knows.

If we are going to be mediocre, we might as well get a look at what these kids will be.  

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Except we don't want as Spork situation where Jace Jung comes up well before his time and he fails hard and it's hard on his psyche. I'm pretty sure this front office won't do that.

I don't know that being brought up quickly hurt Torkelson's psyche.  Maybe he is just not that good or maybe he is too stubborn.

I also have no idea whether the current front office has a better handle on how players will react to failure.  They seem to be more scientific, but I don't know if they have expertise in how individuals will react to adversity.  That's a difficult thing to gauge.  

Edited by Tiger337
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1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know that being brought up quickly hurt Torkelson's psyche.  Maybe he is just not that good or maybe he is too stubborn.

I also have no idea whether the current front office has a better handle on how players will react to failure.  They seem to be more scientific, but I don't know if they have expertise in how individuals will react to diversity.  That's a difficult thing to gauge.  

With Tork, people saw how his ASU  years seemed better than Barry Bonds  in their eyes and had unrealistic expectations.

 Right now, I would guess he is gone in 2 years at the most. He is what we are seeing right now.

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4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't know that being brought up quickly hurt Torkelson's psyche.  Maybe he is just not that good or maybe he is too stubborn.

Or maybe it did hurt his psyche. I don't know that, either, though. None of us know. If I had to say what's the most likely—his psyche was hurt, or he's just not so good, or he's just too stubborn, or some combination of the three—I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess.

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4 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

 I think the argument could be made that we bring up all of our position players too quickly. 

I wonder what the level of disconnect between our minor league coaching and major league coaching is, versus that of the other 29 teams. Another thing I wonder but couldn't begin to hazard a guess about.

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With Tork you have to figure out if he is fixable now. You can take the lessons learned from his struggles and apply them to the next phase of prospects.

When I say fixable, the minimum production given his defensive limitations is a high .700s OPS with at least 30 homers a year.  If that isn't possible, then you have to find other options. You can't wait around on a hope and a prayer. The passage of time is not a development plan.

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3 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

With Tork, people saw how his ASU  years seemed better than Barry Bonds  in their eyes and had unrealistic expectations.

 Right now, I would guess he is gone in 2 years at the most. He is what we are seeing right now.

He may be one of those guys who needs a change in scenery, coaching, approach. Satisfying though it may be to some, that he doesn't flourish here under our coaching system is not by necessity an indictment of our coaching system. Sometimes certain people don't mesh with certain systems, while certain other people do. Analytical as things may be now, player development is not a science, at least not yet.

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5 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I wonder what the level of disconnect between our minor league coaching and major league coaching is, versus that of the other 29 teams. Another thing I wonder but couldn't begin to hazard a guess about.

there is an arguement that because of the re-org of minors a few years ago (less 4A guys) the gap between AAA and Majors is now larger then ever

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Just now, chasfh said:

I wonder what the level of disconnect between our minor league coaching and major league coaching is, versus that of the other 29 teams. Another thing I wonder but couldn't begin to hazard a guess about.

Thats a bloody good question. I also wonder if there is such a thing as too much coaching. There isn't much time to think when you're at the plate. Good to have book on the pitchers but the rest seems pretty straightforward ( said the guy that never played the game). 

G2 has been expressing concerns for some time about the negative effect of "controlling the strike zone" and it does seem that hitters might be over thinking. I think knowing the strike zone is just a skill some players have and some just don't and I don't think it's teachable. I mean do we want Tork and Carpenter focusing on walking ? I want them and all power hitters to eat. Baez has gotten worse every yer under HInch. Parades turned into a HUGH power hitter AFTER HINCH. .512 slugging with a .907 OPS.. HINCH didn't even play him. How can a manager not see that ? He' the best third baseman in the game and third is our weakest  position. S*** like that make me wonder and worry about our manager.

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Hinch barely touched Paredes. He had him for 85 plate trips in 2021 while Paredes had 327 between Lakeland and Toledo. Paredes also hit better in Detroit under Hinch in 2021 than under Gardenhire in 2020. I don't think the problem was Hinch.

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24 minutes ago, kdog said:

With Tork you have to figure out if he is fixable now. You can take the lessons learned from his struggles and apply them to the next phase of prospects.

When I say fixable, the minimum production given his defensive limitations is a high .700s OPS with at least 30 homers a year.  If that isn't possible, then you have to find other options. You can't wait around on a hope and a prayer. The passage of time is not a development plan.

Actually, you can wait.  This is another lost season and he isn’t blocking anyone.  We are completely devoid of 1B prospects, unless Gold or Briceno end up there, and they are both a few seasons away.

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Hinch isn’t the reason this team can’t hit.  I doubt it’s a hitting coach, either. And it can’t be the ballpark, unless the ground has settled since the teams with Miggy, V-Mart, Kinsler, JD, etc. flourished.

Something else is amiss.

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My humble opinion is that AJ is a better PR guy than a manager. He can talk a good game in front of the press that is as good, if not better, than anyone else out there in my opinion. 
I’ve heard he and Harris say on several occasions that they both challenge each other on ideas and such. I’d be very curious to know about what and to what degree. I don’t know that I buy that line. In fact, I’d be more concerned that the Hinch/Harris/Greenberg club is probably too cozy. 

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