Random NFL comments/thoughts

[Motown Bombers]

The Lions made the playoffs 5 more times in the 90's after the 1991 season. The 90's Lions had some talent but didn't have the QB. 

[Motor City Sonics]

All season I was saying Cincinnati was a decent team, but I mean they could go 8-9 or 9-8 because that was a very hard division.  I had no idea they were this good. 

Every Year a team goes worst-to-first.  

Who makes the leap next year (Can't answer that until after the draft)

Here are your teams..........

My ranking of teams that could go worst to first, as of now is.......

1. Baltimore Ravens  - only 2 games separated first and worst this year

2. Carolina Panthers - if Brady is gone....the Saints have to gut the payroll and Atlanta was more lucky than good this year

3. Denver  Broncos - Well, not a bad team, but a tough division.  If Rodgers is brought on, they'd probably jump to 2

4. Seattle Seahawks - Until we know the QB situation its very hard to say. 

5. NY Giants - They have a big mess to clean up first

6. Detroit Lions - No Rodgers in the division would be nice, but they are rebuilding right and that takes longer

7. NY Jets - They really did improve in a lot of areas, but once again their young QB has to survive. 

8. Jacksonville - Yeah, a new coach could cleanse them but I don't have faith they can jump Tennessee and Indy, who should both be really good next year.  

 

[Motor City Sonics]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Lions made the playoffs 5 more times in the 90's after the 1991 season. The 90's Lions had some talent but didn't have the QB. 

From what I recall, the coordinators were a revolving door and they never could gain momentum.   Up then Down then Up then Down then Abandon Ship WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP.  

[Motown Bombers]

 

[RedRamage]

On 1/30/2022 at 2:33 PM, Motor City Sonics said:

And McDaniels will coach Las Vegas - another white guy.   Wow.    The Rooney Rule really is just for show, isn't it? 

Not that I want to defend the Rooney Rule cause I think it has some serious problems, but the rule is only that a minority needs to be interviewed, not that a minority needs to be hired.  The narrative when the Rule was put in place was that minorities could get hired if given a fair shot but NFL only interviewed white guys (mostly retreads) so they never had a shot to showcase themselves.

Now, my opinion at that the time is that forcing a minority interviewee doesn't make much sense HCs are usually hired from OCs and DCs (or assistant HCs) so I'd rather see the Rooney Rule applied there.

Personally I think the rules that rewarding teams for developing minority coaches and executives is a better solution, though also somewhat imperfect.

[Motor City Sonics]

It's a tough line to walk because you don't want to force teams to  hire someone they don't want to hire, but the players are 70% Black and it's been about that percentage for a very long time and most coaches were once players so it seems like there would be more Black head coaches, but only Mike Tomlin remains (sorry, not counting Saleh as a minority at all - Middle Eastern is technically considered White).   David Culley gets bounced after a year where he won 4 games with a team most people thought would win 2 or 3.  Wasn't his fault the roster sucked.  Did they hire him to get an extra draft pick in the first place?   Brian Flores turns Miami into a playoff bubble team after years of irrelevance and gets bounced because he and the QB, who hasn't been all that impressive, didn't get along?   Steve Wilkes was a one-and-done.   It's just wrong.     I know a couple of Black GMs got hired but GMs aren't very visible.  

[Motown Bombers]

6 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It's a tough line to walk because you don't want to force teams to  hire someone they don't want to hire, but the players are 70% Black and it's been about that percentage for a very long time and most coaches were once players so it seems like there would be more Black head coaches, but only Mike Tomlin remains (sorry, not counting Saleh as a minority at all - Middle Eastern is technically considered White).   David Culley gets bounced after a year where he won 4 games with a team most people thought would win 2 or 3.  Wasn't his fault the roster sucked.  Did they hire him to get an extra draft pick in the first place?   Brian Flores turns Miami into a playoff bubble team after years of irrelevance and gets bounced because he and the QB, who hasn't been all that impressive, didn't get along?   Steve Wilkes was a one-and-done.   It's just wrong.     I know a couple of Black GMs got hired but GMs aren't very visible.  

Houston doesn't get a draft pick for hiring and firing Culley. You also have a lot of white college players who don't make it to the NFL and immediately go into coaching like Sean McVay who then build longer coaching resumes. 

[chasfh]

So it's finally official: Matthew Stafford ran Tom Brady out of football.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

It's a tough line to walk because you don't want to force teams to  hire someone they don't want to hire, but the players are 70% Black and it's been about that percentage for a very long time and most coaches were once players so it seems like there would be more Black head coaches, but only Mike Tomlin remains (sorry, not counting Saleh as a minority at all - Middle Eastern is technically considered White).   David Culley gets bounced after a year where he won 4 games with a team most people thought would win 2 or 3.  Wasn't his fault the roster sucked.  Did they hire him to get an extra draft pick in the first place?   Brian Flores turns Miami into a playoff bubble team after years of irrelevance and gets bounced because he and the QB, who hasn't been all that impressive, didn't get along?   Steve Wilkes was a one-and-done.   It's just wrong.     I know a couple of Black GMs got hired but GMs aren't very visible.  

sorry middle eastern guys, you're all white now.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Motown Bombers]

This is apparently the proof. 

 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[RedRamage]

5 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

David Culley gets bounced after a year where he won 4 games with a team most people thought would win 2 or 3.  Wasn't his fault the roster sucked.  Did they hire him to get an extra draft pick in the first place?   Brian Flores turns Miami into a playoff bubble team after years of irrelevance and gets bounced because he and the QB, who hasn't been all that impressive, didn't get along?   Steve Wilkes was a one-and-done.   It's just wrong.     I know a couple of Black GMs got hired but GMs aren't very visible.  

I'm a little surprised any NFL coach is fired after one year unless there's some scandal and I didn't hear anything re: Culley.  But as Motown Bombers said Houston doesn't get a pick for hiring Culley, Baltimore would get that pick.  (On a side note, I wouldn't mind seeing a team get a lower round pick for hiring a minority if said team kept the coach for x-number of years.  If the complaint is that minorities don't get hired as much because they don't have experience then this is one way to lean towards them getting that experience.)

For Flores it's hard to make the case that he was bounced because of race if you also are saying he was bounced because he didn't get along with the QB "star" who's also a minority.

Wilks doesn't look like he lit up the world but again it seems odd that a coach would get canned after only one year.

Part of the problem, imho, of trying to draw too many conclusions re: NFL head coaches or GMs is that the sample size is very, very small.  32 teams just doesn't mean a whole lot of available jobs and it doesn't take much to shift things around.  I'd be far more interested in seeing what the stats are for HC, OC, DC, maybe even though it special teams coordinator as well.

I also think it's unfair to say that because the NFL has x-percentage of minority players than if it doesn't have close to x-percentage of minority HCs it's because of racism.  We don't know what percentage of players are interested in becoming coaches and why they are or aren't hired.

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

i dont understand how that shows any racism.

[RedRamage]

11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

So if I'm understanding the proof correctly it's that the Giants picked their guy, unofficially, BEFORE they interviewed the minority candidate.

A few thoughts on that:

1. This highlights what many of us have thought about the Rooney Rule: It's kinda dumb and often followed only to the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the laws.

2. If the idea of the Rooney rule is to give a candidate a chance, one could argue that he had his chance to change their minds... that's a pretty weak argument, but I've been involved in a few hiring situations and I do recall one where I was pretty convinced that one candidate was going to be the answer until another came in changed my mind.  Of course, this assumes that the Giants were open to their minds being changed, which they very well might not have.

3. I don't think this proves racism.  It potentially proves that the Giants violated NFL rules, but the reason for the violation was not necessarily racism.  Take, for example, when "He Who Shall Not be Named" hired Steve Mariucci.  The Lions didn't interview any minority candidates because they all knew the Lions fired 'Weg just to hire Mooch. It wasn't that HWSNbN was necessarily racist, just that he had in mind the guy he thought was the perfect fit.

This just isn't a smoking gun for racism to me.  Please understand that I'm not saying racism wasn't involved, just that this isn't proof of it imho.

[RedRamage]

17 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont understand how that shows any racism.

In case you didn't see my post after yours, I think it shows that the Giants had all but hired a white guy as their coach BEFORE interviewing a minority, which is a violation of the Rooney Rule.  

One could argue that the Giant played by the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law and thereby skirted rules intended to provide opportunities for minorities.

One could also argue that the NFL is aware that their rule is easily skirted and therefore is lip service only in attempting to provide opportunities for minorities.

However, I don't think that either of those things proves racism.

[Motown Bombers]

22 minutes ago, buddha said:

i dont understand how that shows any racism.

The Giants allegedly already decided to hire Daboll before bringing in Flores. Basically, they never had any intentions of hiring Flores and were just bringing him to satisfy the Rooney rule. I'm not sure it is racists per say, but it does seem to violate the Rooney rule. 

[buddha]

Just now, RedRamage said:

In case you didn't see my post after yours, I think it shows that the Giants had all but hired a white guy as their coach BEFORE interviewing a minority, which is a violation of the Rooney Rule.  

One could argue that the Giant played by the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law and thereby skirted rules intended to provide opportunities for minorities.

One could also argue that the NFL is aware that their rule is easily skirted and therefore is lip service only in attempting to provide opportunities for minorities.

However, I don't think that either of those things proves racism.

i get your point, and i havent read the whole complaint.  but those text messages mean nothing, and the part of the complaint cited in that other tweet isnt evidence, its merely speculation on the part of the drafter.

 

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

In case you didn't see my post after yours, I think it shows that the Giants had all but hired a white guy as their coach BEFORE interviewing a minority, which is a violation of the Rooney Rule.  

One could argue that the Giant played by the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law and thereby skirted rules intended to provide opportunities for minorities.

One could also argue that the NFL is aware that their rule is easily skirted and therefore is lip service only in attempting to provide opportunities for minorities.

However, I don't think that either of those things proves racism.

They did interview Leslie Frazier before Daboll but I believe the rule is you need to interview two minorities. 

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Giants allegedly already decided to hire Daboll before bringing in Flores. Basically, they never had any intentions of hiring Flores and were just bringing him to satisfy the Rooney rule. I'm not sure it is racists per say, but it does seem to violate the Rooney rule. 

right, but i dont think that's evidence of racism.

is the complaint alleging that the giants are liable for "violating the rooney rule" or for discrimination on the basis of race?

[Motown Bombers]

It's also Bill Belichick who has no affiliation with the Giants so I'm not sure how his text can hold up as proof that the Giants only brought him as a token candidate. 

[MichiganCardinal]

While I don’t think the suit (thus far) shows racism, I do think it exposes the Rooney Rule for the farce that it is. It’s evident that the Giants quite likely only interviewed Flores because of his race, and not because he had a legitimate shot at the job. Which is not the intent of the rule nor is it fair to Flores. Both the Rooney Rule and the more recent draft compensation rule are incredibly overly simplistic and more aimed at image than actually improving NFL diversity.

If the league actually wanted to improve diversity, my proposal would be that they have a committee of both league professionals and academics who evaluate all NFL clubs top to bottom on a yearly basis. They could look at those public facing roles like GM and HC, but also the lesser seen (but more plentiful and arguably more important) coordinators, position coaches, scouts, interns, etc. They could also look at club hiring processes more broadly and examine how these organizations are working to be anti-racist. To incentivize it (like the more recent draft comp rule), give that group the power to award 3rd-7th round comp picks to a handful of teams yearly that exemplify being anti-racist and those that find, hire, and promote minority candidates.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

While I don’t think the suit (thus far) shows racism, I do think it exposes the Rooney Rule for the farce that it is. It’s evident that the Giants quite likely only interviewed Flores because of his race, and not because he had a legitimate shot at the job. Which is not the intent of the rule nor is it fair to Flores. Both the Rooney Rule and the more recent draft compensation rule are incredibly overly simplistic and more aimed at image than actually improving NFL diversity.

If the league actually wanted to improve diversity, my proposal would be that they have a committee of both league professionals and academics who evaluate all NFL clubs top to bottom on a yearly basis. They could look at those public facing roles like GM and HC, but also the lesser seen (but more plentiful and arguably more important) coordinators, position coaches, scouts, interns, etc. They could also look at club hiring processes more broadly and examine how these organizations are working to be anti-racist. To incentivize it (like the more recent draft comp rule), give that group the power to award 3rd-7th round comp picks to a handful of teams yearly that exemplify being anti-racist and those that find, hire, and promote minority candidates.

what would be evidence of "anti-racism"?

[1984Echoes]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

what would be evidence of "anti-racism"?

Yeah I don't think that's the correct wording...

Along the lines of a reward system for "minority opportunities".

But I don't know how that would work either... based on some ranking system? As others have mentioned it shouldn't be HC's only but, rather, all coaches, maybe the front office personnel, etc...? 

Just on semantics alone though... I think I have the better semantics there...

[Motown Bombers]

I want to know how Bill Belichick knew who the Giants were hiring? Is this another spygate?