Week Twelve: New York Giants (2-9) @ Detroit Lions (6-4)

[Motor City Sonics]

Wow, Lions fans acting like they lost yesterday.   That was a great win.  To comeback the way they did.  Spectacular.  They can't all be pretty.   Take the win.  Move on.   This is the NFL, you never know what to expect.   

 

Yes, the O-Line is off and Goff is a bit out of sync.     I think it's Morton and it's not just the play calling.  

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Ugly win, pretty video. 

 

This is as close to a walk-off homer as you’re going to see in football. I acknowledge that field goals and touchdowns, i.e., scoring to win games, is in that way more akin to homering to win games. But those are usually resolutions to developing situations. A walk-off sack, like a walk-off homer, is rather a relatively unexpected event, something that ends that game in the sort of exhilarating, out of the blue manner that a field goal lacks.

In that vein, a walk-off pick six is more like a walk-off sack than a walk-off field goal.

Edited 18 hours ago by chasfh

[Jason_R]

The doc on Twitter who comments on the Lions' injuries thinks ASB has some kind of wrist or hand injury, and found a play where he thinks it happened. Obviously this is just speculation, but it makes more sense to me that he has a physical issue than that he and Goff are out of sync, especially since these are legitimate drops where the ball literally hit him in the hands and he did not come down with the catch.

But I get the out of sync comment in the sense that the whole offense is out of sync. I get why they are riding Gibbs and ASB, but it feels like they are doing so as security blankets because they no longer feel like the offense is no longer dictating the pace of the game to defenses. When they need a big play, they go to their reliable (?) receiver and explosive back. I still think the team is leaving something on the table by ignoring Montgomery. They have got to get him involved and run play action off of him.

It was an ugly game yesterday but they pulled it out. Reinforcements should come on the defensive side soon. Davenport should be back Thursday. Hopefully Arnold and maybe Joseph will be back on Thursday. The OL will have to grit it out with Awosike for a few more weeks but Mahogany might be able to return against the Cowboys. Then the team gets ten days before playing the Rams, so hopefully they will be rested and ready for their playoff preview game. 

[MichiganCardinal]

30 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This is as close to a walk-off homer as you’re going to see in football. I acknowledge that field goals and touchdowns, i.e., scoring to win games, is in that way more akin to homering to win games. But those are usually resolutions to developing situations. A walk-off sack, like a walk-off homer, is rather a relatively unexpected event, something that ends that game in the sort of exhilarating, out of the blue manner that a field goal lacks.

In that vein, a walk-off pick six is more like a walk-off sack than a walk-off field goal.

At least after a walk off homer you don’t have to quickly scan all four umpires to make sure one of them didn’t call it a foul ball off his foot though.

[Tigeraholic1]

Season saving win. Now we gotta find a way to beat the Packers.

[CMRivdogs]

Seeing that the Giants have fired thier assisant defefensive coordinator

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6832655/2025/11/24/ny-giants-shane-bowen-fired-defense/

Quote

The New York Giants fired defensive coordinator Shane Bowen on Monday following the team’s 34-27 overtime loss to the Detroit Lions, according to a league source.

The move comes after the Giants fired head coach Brian Daboll following their Week 10 loss to the Bears. Bowen lasted two games under interim coach Mike Kafka, both losses, as the team fell to 2-10. The Giants, losers of six straight, became the first team in the NFL to be officially eliminated from playoff contention.

 

[MichiganCardinal]

24 minutes ago, CMRivdogs said:

Seeing that the Giants have fired thier assisant defefensive coordinator

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6832655/2025/11/24/ny-giants-shane-bowen-fired-defense/

 

Kind of a bizarre move with an interim head coach after doing a pretty decent job of limiting the damage on what can be one of the NFL’s most explosive offenses. But who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

[Motown Bombers]

I don’t know, that defensive line is loaded and the Lions gashed them for over 200 yards rushing.

[lordstanley]

2 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

At least after a walk off homer you don’t have to quickly scan all four umpires to make sure one of them didn’t call it a foul ball off his foot though.

As soon as the game ends, Fox puts a yellow Final on the screen beneath the score, using the same colour as penalty. I learned my brain registers colors before letters by a split second because my heart skipped. I was very briefly worried we were about to learn that Hutch had facemasked or something. 

[Sports_Freak]

10 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

A loss to the Giants would have been bad. Really bad.

But these are the kinds of games that really good teams find ways to win, and that’s what the Lions did. You don’t complain when you get one of these, you shrug and move on.

It was outrageously ugly, and the defense was atrocious at times. But they’ll get that cleaned up. It doesn’t help that they’re still missing Arnold and Joseph while Reed was getting his sea legs back under him from a pretty gnarly hamstring injury. Meanwhile the Giants played a pretty good game. They certainly weren’t a 2-9 team that had given up on the season. It was fairly mistake-free, and it helps when the trick plays cut your way.

Still a lot of room to improve on the offense. Feels like Campbell is still figuring out the play calling, but I think he’s close to being full cylinders. ASB absolutely needs to figure it the f out. He needs to be Mr. Dependable, his drops single-handedly kill a drive. And multiple in a game is unacceptable.

Generally I’m still optimistic on the outlook. No team in the NFC (or NFL really) has been dominant this year, though the Rams have been close. Get Mahagony back and if this OL can play to their potential down the stretch we have a chance to win some big games in January. We have the best offensive player in football on our team right now, and that alone counts for something.

I'll take the win but are the Giants in full tank mode? I mean a FG on 4th and goal would have made the Lions score a late TD to win it instead of a loooong FG just to tie it. A NY FG was the proper call, luckily our defense held them outta the end zone.

[lordstanley]

3 hours ago, chasfh said:

Game situation notwithstanding, ten years ago, twenty for sure, we would have been slack-jawed after watching a franchise record-breaking field goal of 59 yards. Nowadays it seems as though there’s a field goal of 59 yards or longer every other week.

Eddie Murray's miss against SF in '83 was a 42 yarder and Lee Norwood's for the Bills in the Super Bowl in '91 was a 47 yarder. Both should have been made but it wasn't surprising that they were missed. Now 42-47 yard field goals are chip shots like what a 30 yarder used to seem like.

[Tenacious D]

[lordstanley]

I'm more concerned about the Lions than I have been at any time in the past 2.5 seasons because 3 of the past 4 games have been alarming. With the only comfortable win in that span being the Washington game. And the OL isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, at least not until the offseason IMO. The 5-2 record before that, including the KC loss, was fine. That said, it wasn't ALL smooth sailing in 2023 and 2024:

- in 2023, the Lions were 7-2 when they started a 4-game stretch in which they pulled out a miracle win against a bad Bears team at home, lost to the Packers at home on Thanksgiving, almost blew a 21-0 lead to a sub.500 Saints team (it was 24-21 Lions by the 3rd quarter, then the Saints had the ball at midfield down 5 with 3 minutes to go in the game), then got spanked 28-13 by the Bears at Soldier Field. Their record was 9-4 then they righted themselves and finished 12-5.

-in 2024, nothing too worrying, but the 10-1 Lions then got lucky to beat Chicago on Thanksgiving after the Bears' poor clock management, were taken to the final minute by the Packers at home before a walkoff FG, then got smoked by the Bills at home. 

 

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

And the OL isn't going to get fixed anytime soon, at least not until the offseason

that's football today. You build a team, then all you can do is watch to see how much of it survives the season. 

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

I'll take the win but are the Giants in full tank mode? I mean a FG on 4th and goal would have made the Lions score a late TD to win it instead of a loooong FG just to tie it. A NY FG was the proper call, luckily our defense held them outta the end zone.

I don’t think they are in full tank mode. Kafka is auditioning for a full time HC job. He wants to win. Going for the TD was an indication of how little he trusts his defense. Also firing his DC is an indication of how little he trusts his defense, and how much he is not in tank mode. 

[RedRamage]

4 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

At least after a walk off homer you don’t have to quickly scan all four umpires to make sure one of them didn’t call it a foul ball off his foot though.

I honestly worried that he'd get flagged for a hip drop tackle.

[Motown Bombers]

I'm confused why we are talking about the OL when the Lions ran for 200+ yards on a defensive line that is probably the most talented in the league. I thought the offensive line was great. 

[RedRamage]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

I'll take the win but are the Giants in full tank mode? I mean a FG on 4th and goal would have made the Lions score a late TD to win it instead of a loooong FG just to tie it. A NY FG was the proper call, luckily our defense held them outta the end zone.

I don't know that I agree with that.

If the Giants get the TD, obviously that's almost certainly game over. Lions need two scores with very little time left, so while not super likely, the end result is somewhat worth the risk.

Furthermore, a FG puts you up 6... but that means the Lions "just" need a TD and extra point to win the game. And of course the Lions KNOW that they need that to win the game. The entire drive will be singularly focused on getting that TD because there is no other option.

However, if you give the ball to the Lions down by 3, there may not be quite the same desperation. The Lions may not take the same risks to win the game, and may settle for a FG.

Obviously it's easy to Monday Morning QB the whole thing and say: Look, the Giants stopped the Lions and forced a FG... the should have kicked so they would have won. But the results are obviously predicated on the situation the Lions were in and would have played out differently had they been down 6 instead of 3.

[Jason_R]

3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm confused why we are talking about the OL when the Lions ran for 200+ yards on a defensive line that is probably the most talented in the league. I thought the offensive line was great. 

They gave up three sacks. Awosike is struggling in pass protection. 

[Jason_R]

Since I was hard on Hutch yesterday. 

[RedRamage]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm confused why we are talking about the OL when the Lions ran for 200+ yards on a defensive line that is probably the most talented in the league. I thought the offensive line was great. 

The Giants allow the most ypc of any team in the NFL at 5.9 and have allowed the most yards on the ground (1886). If the Giants DL is the most talented it's not with stopping the run.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/team-stats/defense/rushing/2025/reg/all 

Note: I'm not sure if those stats are updated with yesterday's game. If they are you could argue that part of the reason they are the worst is how well the Lions ran on them, but I'd guess even without the Lions game the Giants would still easily be in the bottom 5.

[lordstanley]

10 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I don't know that I agree with that.

If the Giants get the TD, obviously that's almost certainly game over. Lions need two scores with very little time left, so while not super likely, the end result is somewhat worth the risk.

Furthermore, a FG puts you up 6... but that means the Lions "just" need a TD and extra point to win the game. And of course the Lions KNOW that they need that to win the game. The entire drive will be singularly focused on getting that TD because there is no other option.

However, if you give the ball to the Lions down by 3, there may not be quite the same desperation. The Lions may not take the same risks to win the game, and may settle for a FG.

Obviously it's easy to Monday Morning QB the whole thing and say: Look, the Giants stopped the Lions and forced a FG... the should have kicked so they would have won. But the results are obviously predicated on the situation the Lions were in and would have played out differently had they been down 6 instead of 3.

I agree with going for it on 4th down. Although it if that's the plan, when you have 1st and goal from the 3 the Giants could have run it on 1st or 2nd down to run down clock or force a timeout.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/47073534/2025-nfl-week-12-comeback-wins-cowboys-lions-chiefs-barnwell

The Giants chose to go for it on fourth-and-goal from the 6-yard line. It's a curious move for commentators who are sure that six is more than three, but history suggests that teams down three are far less incentivized to try to score a touchdown to win the game in regulation than those same teams down six. Throw in the chances of winning the game with a conversion, killing significant clock by drawing a penalty and the added field position benefit of starting the Lions inside their own 10-yard line with a miss, and ESPN's model greatly preferred going for it on fourth-and-goal.

[4hzglory]

23 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

They gave up three sacks. Awosike is struggling in pass protection. 

It was primarily Awosika that was the issue.  He gave up 2 of the 3 sacks and a number of quick pressures.  Hopefully Frazier is getting ready until Mahogany comes back.

[Sports_Freak]

This guy is a great weapon to have;

 

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

Eddie Murray's miss against SF in '83 was a 42 yarder and Lee Norwood's for the Bills in the Super Bowl in '91 was a 47 yarder. Both should have been made but it wasn't surprising that they were missed. Now 42-47 yard field goals are chip shots like what a 30 yarder used to seem like.

The next NFL rule change will probably be to narrow the posts. I can see that possibly happening.