05/31/2026 2:10p EDT Detroit Tigers at Chicago White Sox

[Sports_Freak]

14 minutes ago, kdog said:

This is also a direct shot at the general manager's horrendous bullpen:

 

Montero MAY have given up a home run, Hinch says. It was HIS game to finish, it very well may have been a complete game shutout. It you watch, he claims it wasn't a gut decision. Uhhh...yes. it was. A good manager would admit he made the wrong call...Hinch refuses to admit he screwed up. And he did.

[IdahoBert]

Things I’d rather do than watch the Tigers
Watch the grass grow.
Burn ants with a magnifying glass
Go cow tipping in farm yards at night.
Create a scrapbook of shopping receipts.

[Motor City Sonics]

10 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Montero MAY have given up a home run, Hinch says. It was HIS game to finish, it very well may have been a complete game shutout. It you watch, he claims it wasn't a gut decision. Uhhh...yes. it was. A good manager would admit he made the wrong call...Hinch refuses to admit he screwed up. And he did.

Twice he's done this to Montero this year.  The other time was what, 71 or 74 pitches.  He was cruising.  He earned the right to blow his own game. 

And of course, didn't know when to pull Vest last week when EVERYONE else saw he didn't have it 

And as far as the bullpen blowing games.    Have they been that bad?   Honestly?   Or are they just giving up runs like a normal bullpen for a team that can't produce any run support for it's pitchers?        Goes back to the lineup of horrible players who can't support ANY pitching.  

But let's not make any changes.   Let's just keep going.     

Carpenter came back to save us.  He gets a hit and then the Genius pulls him for ****ing Jones.    

I'm just so done with him.    Just put your best out there and let them play.   Stop with so much platooning.    

[Motor City Sonics]

I don't want to hear about injuries.    This isn't about injuries.   This is about poor roster building and poor managerial decisions.    

[Sports_Freak]

11 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Oh, I think  Hinch has just as much pull as who comes up from Toledo as any manager does with that kind of roster decision.    I have a feeling Hinch has talked Harris into keeping guys around.    

You know what Hinch probably sounds like right now. 

Spicoli saying  "My dad's a TV repair man, he's got this ultimate set of tools.  I can fix it".  

I think Hinch believes he can fix Jones and Short and Perez. 

Maybe  Max Anderson, Ben Malgeri and Jace Jung or Corey Julks wouldn't be any better, but as we have hit absolute rock bottom now, we can't give a try?     When you say "it couldn't be worse".   RIGHT NOW is what we're talking about.  It really couldn't be worse.   Throw **** against the wall and hope it sticks is a better than just watching the wall slowly crumble.   

But like I said, we don't really know if Hinch wants players brought up. Short, Jones and Perez should all be demoted. We all see that. But does Harris see it? Here's a thought...what the hell does Harris even do every day? He sure isnt doing anything to improve this Tiger team. Seriously, how hard can he possibly be working? Does he spend a half hour every day going over the waiver wire to bring in rejects from other teams?

[Motor City Sonics]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But like I said, we don't really know if Hinch wants players brought up. Short, Jones and Perez should all be demoted. We all see that. But does Harris see it? Here's a thought...what the hell does Harris even do every day? He sure isnt doing anything to improve this Tiger team. Seriously, how hard can he possibly be working? Does he spend a half hour every day going over the waiver wire to bring in rejects from other teams?

 

Ben Malgeri - All three OF positions   .399 OBP,   1 error in RF

Corey Julks.  Corner OF, average defense,  .385 OBP

Tyler Gentry.  Corner OF,  .396 OBP.     Good defender in the corners.   Don't know about his range. 

 

Any one of those guys for Perez?      

[Shades of Deivi Cruz]

4 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

Ben Malgeri - All three OF positions   .399 OBP,   1 error in RF

Corey Julks.  Corner OF, average defense,  .385 OBP

Tyler Gentry.  Corner OF,  .396 OBP.     Good defender in the corners.   Don't know about his range. 

 

Any one of those guys for Perez?      

Bonus points for Julks is that his photo makes him look like a super friendly psycho.

[papalawrence]

17 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

I don't want to hear about injuries.    This isn't about injuries.   This is about poor roster building and poor managerial decisions.    

True, but even the Braves don't make the playoffs in years they are decimated by injuries. This is partly due to injuries

[SoCalTiger]

57 minutes ago, papalawrence said:

So they need to go 64-38 here on out to get to 85 wins and maybe have a shot at the post season. 

82 might be enough 

[kdog]

Ty Madden will be called up and start tomorrow.

[Tiger337]

24 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

82 might be enough 

So, you're saying they have a chance? 

[Motor City Sonics]

26 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

So, you're saying they have a chance? 

It'll be Tea and Scrumpets for everyone !

[NorthWoods]

1 hour ago, Shades of Deivi Cruz said:

Bonus points for Julks is that his photo makes him look like a super friendly psycho.

Looks like he might bring a little life to this deadeyed team.

[RatkoVarda]

what a god awful team

[kdog]

 

[casimir]

7 minutes ago, kdog said:

 

This is it.  Yes, the bullpen isn’t good.  But the offense is horrible.  Just absolutely inept.  They’re asking run prevention to completely carry the load while multiple fifths of the original rotation is on the injured list (including the Skubal guy) and the bullpen isn’t to be trusted.  The offense shouldn’t be shattered because Torres and Carpenter are on the injured list.

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Twice he's done this to Montero this year.  The other time was what, 71 or 74 pitches.  He was cruising.  He earned the right to blow his own game. 

And of course, didn't know when to pull Vest last week when EVERYONE else saw he didn't have it 

And as far as the bullpen blowing games.    Have they been that bad?   Honestly?   Or are they just giving up runs like a normal bullpen for a team that can't produce any run support for it's pitchers?        Goes back to the lineup of horrible players who can't support ANY pitching.  

But let's not make any changes.   Let's just keep going.     

Carpenter came back to save us.  He gets a hit and then the Genius pulls him for ****ing Jones.    

I'm just so done with him.    Just put your best out there and let them play.   Stop with so much platooning.    

Yeah. I was thinking about how happy Hinch is to have Carpenter back. Now he has 2 LH hitters to pinch hit with a .150 hitter. Wait for Short to start pinch hitting for Keith. 😁

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

 

Ben Malgeri - All three OF positions   .399 OBP,   1 error in RF

Corey Julks.  Corner OF, average defense,  .385 OBP

Tyler Gentry.  Corner OF,  .396 OBP.     Good defender in the corners.   Don't know about his range. 

 

Any one of those guys for Perez?      

Even calling up a player to play CF (Max Clark??) would allow Vierling to move to RF. Improves our defense and how much worse could the hitting actually be?

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Did he blame something else on McGonigle? I musta missed it.

McGonigle made the wrong play on the bunt, he charged when he was supposed to stay at 3b and hold the runner. Kevin McGonigle played 1100 innings in the minors as a SS, 0 as a 3B. This year for the 1st time in his career he has played 207 inning at 3b to go with 291 inninigs at SS, but it's *his* fault he didn't get a situational play right at 3rd? Sorry, I don't really think so. Team needs to own up to putting guys in positions to fail.

Edited 22 hours ago by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Even calling up a player to play CF (Max Clark??) would allow Vierling to move to RF. Improves our defense and how much worse could the hitting actually be?

I don't want to see Clark up for his defense.  I want him to be called up when he is ready offensively as well as defensively.  

[Edman85]

What say you all rules experts? I've been going back and forth and don't think it is covered in the rulebook. I think Claude did a pretty good job, and I'll just copy and paste here...

 

Runners on first and third, two outs. The runner at first is picked off and in a rundown. He runs out of the baseline to avoid a tag before the runner from third scores, but due to natural lag in the call, the umpire makes the call momentarily after the runner touches home plate. Does the run score?

8:19 PM

 

Claude responded: Let me get you a precise ruling on this.

Let me get you a precise ruling on this.

Here's the ruling:

The run does not score. Here's the full breakdown:

The out comes first — timing of the call is irrelevant.

Under Rule 5.08(a), a run cannot score if the third out of the inning is made before the runner touches home plate. The critical word in the rule is "made" — not "called." The out is legally recorded the instant the runner steps outside the baseline to avoid a tag (Rule 5.09(b)(1)), regardless of when the umpire's arm goes up.

Why the runner leaving the baseline is an immediate out:

Rule 5.09(b)(1) states that a runner is out when he runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged. This is not a judgment call with any grace period — the infraction and the resulting out occur simultaneously at the moment the runner leaves the legal path.

The "timing of the call" issue:

The umpire's physical signal is a mechanic, not the legal moment the out is created. Courts (and the rulebook) treat the out as having happened when the violation occurred, not when it was announced. So even if the runner from third touches home a split-second before the umpire raises his fist, the third out legally predates that touch — the run cannot count.

The key exception that doesn't apply here:

Rule 5.08(a) does have a saving clause: if the third out is a force out or results from a batter not reaching first, runs that score before the out do count. But this situation is neither — it's an appeal/tag play out on a runner already on base, so that exception is off the table.

Bottom line: No run. The inning is over the moment the runner left the baseline, and the umpire's delayed signal changes nothing about the legal record of the game.

You said: Ah, but perhaps the play is actually dead when the umpire signals, not necessarily when the out of baseline infraction happens.

Ah, but perhaps the play is actually dead when the umpire signals, not necessarily when the out of baseline infraction happens. I have been told that, but was not given a specific rule citation for it. The rules, nor the 2019 (most recent available) umpire manual seems to cover this very very rare situation.

10:13 PM

 

Claude responded: This is a genuinely fascinating edge case, and you're raising a legitimate challenge worth thinking through carefully.

This is a genuinely fascinating edge case, and you're raising a legitimate challenge worth thinking through carefully. Let me be honest about what the rules do and don't say.

Your argument has real merit.

The rulebook does distinguish between dead ball situations and live ball outs. Running out of the baseline (Rule 5.09(b)(1)) is a live ball out — meaning the ball is not automatically dead when the infraction occurs. Unlike, say, interference, there's no provision in Rule 5.09(b)(1) that kills the ball immediately. Play continues until the umpire makes the call.

This creates a genuine ambiguity: if the ball is still live at the moment of the infraction, and the out isn't "made" in any practical sense until the umpire signals it, then a runner touching home before that signal might have scored on a live ball.

Where the rules are silent:

You're right that neither the Official Rules nor the umpire's manual appears to explicitly address what happens when there's a perceptible gap between the out-of-baseline infraction and the umpire's call — especially when another runner scores in that window. Rule 5.09(b)(1) says the runner is out, but doesn't specify the precise legal moment play stops relative to the call.

The counterargument:

The more traditional interpretation holds that the out is created by the act, not the signal — and that the umpire's job is simply to recognize and announce what already happened. Under this view, the signal is declaratory, not constitutive.

Honest bottom line:

This is genuinely unsettled. You've identified a crack in the rulebook that isn't cleanly resolved by the text, and anyone who gives you a confident answer either way is probably going beyond what the rules actually say. In practice, this would almost certainly come down to the crew chief's judgment call in the moment — and it's the kind of play that could be argued either way in a protest.

A really strong question, and I should not have been as definitive in my first answer as I was.

[Edman85]

30 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't want to see Clark up for his defense.  I want him to be called up when he is ready offensively as well as defensively.  

This is not me proposing calling him up, but i did hit up BP's defensive metrics out of curiosity. They aren't perfect, obviously, but one of the only spots I can get defensive metrics for the minors. Clark is second in AAA in their Defensive Runs Prevented metric across all positions.

[Sports_Freak]

15 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

This is not me proposing calling him up, but i did hit up BP's defensive metrics out of curiosity. They aren't perfect, obviously, but one of the only spots I can get defensive metrics for the minors. Clark is second in AAA in their Defensive Runs Prevented metric across all positions.

Do you think the Tigers are holding him back in case there's no strike next year and he can have a chance at ROY? Or maybe holding him back in case there IS a strike so he'll still be able to play MiLB? Or is he on the 40 man roster and not allowed any team involvement?

[monkeytargets39]

12 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Do you think the Tigers are holding him back in case there's no strike next year and he can have a chance at ROY? Or maybe holding him back in case there IS a strike so he'll still be able to play MiLB? Or is he on the 40 man roster and not allowed any team involvement?

I don’t think they’re holding him back.  He’s only had like 7 weeks of AAA ball and only got like half a season of AA ball.  What’s the rush at this point?  

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, monkeytargets39 said:

I don’t think they’re holding him back.  He’s only had like 7 weeks of AAA ball and only got like half a season of AA ball.  What’s the rush at this point?  

He's also not hitting too well the last few weeks.  He is probably not ready yet offensively.  

Edited 19 hours ago by Tiger337