Coronavirus: Already In a Neighborhood Near You

[ewsieg]

21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

MMA Interviewer Joe Rogan is a terrible host. He lets these conspiracy peddlers come on his show and he throws them softball questions and acts like he's so fascinated with all the bullshit they are spewing. Then, when someone like Zepps goes on his show and pushes back he's suddenly willing to question and push back.

I disagree that he's a terrible host.  In fact I think he's a great interviewer.  I don't think he's right about a number of things, but that clip above is a quick segment.   He'll interject at times, but he gives the host a lot of time to explain themselves too.  I did listen to the Sanjay Gupta one and the clips you saw were all about Rogan going after CNN.  Even Gupta came out and said that was only a small bit of the overall conversation.  

I rarely listen now, I just don't have the time, but it's not because he's a terrible host.

[mtutiger]

I've never cared for Rogan, but really I just don't like the format of show in general. It's no different than how I feel about Dax Shepard, who (like Rogan) comes across like someone who thinks he knows more than he actually does.

Even Maron, who I've listened to for a while, has started to grate on me a lot. Maybe it's the pandemic or just burnout on interview podcasts, idk.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

5 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

I disagree that he's a terrible host.  In fact I think he's a great interviewer.  I don't think he's right about a number of things, but that clip above is a quick segment.   He'll interject at times, but he gives the host a lot of time to explain themselves too.  I did listen to the Sanjay Gupta one and the clips you saw were all about Rogan going after CNN.  Even Gupta came out and said that was only a small bit of the overall conversation.  

I rarely listen now, I just don't have the time, but it's not because he's a terrible host.

https://www.mediamatters.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-wrapped-year-covid-19-misinformation-right-wing-myths-and-anti-trans

Media Matters did a good job detailing a lot of the misinformation and lies that Rogan allows to be spread on his show or that he himself spreads. A good host would first off not peddle in lies and misinformation and would seek out the truth and would also be a fierce critic to those on their show that do spread misinformation.

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

https://www.mediamatters.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-wrapped-year-covid-19-misinformation-right-wing-myths-and-anti-trans

Media Matters did a good job detailing a lot of the misinformation and lies that Rogan allows to be spread on his show or that he himself spreads. A good host would first off not peddle in lies and misinformation and would seek out the truth and would also be a fierce critic to those on their show that do spread misinformation.

Rogan is a great example too of how we give dubious media personalities a lot more power and influence over the discourse than we should. In that sense, he's really no different than Tucker or Hannity or Maddow. He doesn't have any real talent that any of us on this board couldn't do, he doesn't provide any real value to the society, except for the fact that he provides entertainment to those who find his schtick entertaining and subsequently sells products and services three hours at a time.

It's, for the most part, harmless , but I do think when we get into a 100-year pandemic situation, it can be very problematic to say the least.

Edited January 14, 2022 by mtutiger

[oblong]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I've never cared for Rogan, but really I just don't like the format of show in general. It's no different than how I feel about Dax Shepard, who (like Rogan) comes across like someone who thinks he knows more than he actually does.

Even Maron, who I've listened to for a while, has started to grate on me a lot. Maybe it's the pandemic or just burnout on interview podcasts, idk.

For Maron it's all about the guest for me.  But sometimes they get too deep into their personal stuff for my liking.   Like therapy.

 

[smr-nj]

25 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Rogan is a great example too of how we give dubious media personalities a lot more power and influence over the discourse than we should. In that sense, “””””he's really no different than Tucker or Hannity or Maddow. “”””**

He doesn't have any real talent that any of us on this board couldn't do, he doesn't provide any real value to the society, except for the fact that he provides entertainment to those who find his schtick entertaining and subsequently sells products and services three hours at a time.

It's, for the most part, harmless , but I do think when we get into a 100-year pandemic situation, it can be very problematic to say the least.

**
Sean Hannity :

education: Hannity attended Sacred Heart Seminary in Hempstead, New York[13] and St. Pius X Preparatory Seminary in Uniondale, New York. He attended New York University and Adelphi University, but did not graduate from either.

Tucker Carlson : 

education: He went to Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, graduating in 1991 with a BA in history.

Rachel Maddow :

education: She earned a degree in public policy at Stanford in 1994. At graduation, she was awarded the John Gardner Fellowship.^[19] She was the recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship and began her postgraduate study in 1995 at Lincoln College, Oxford. She had also been awarded a Marshall Scholarship the same year but turned it down in favour of the Rhodes. In 2001, she earned a Doctor of Philosophy (DPhil) in politics at the University of Oxford

======================
 

“One of these things, is not like the other 🎶🎼🎵”

🙂

[Tigerbomb13]

I get that Maddow is biased and don’t expect a lot of people to watch her. I don’t think the is anywhere near as bad as what Hannity and Tucker spew. It’s not really Earth 2.0 stuff. 

[buddha]

15 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

**
Sean Hannity :

education: Hannity attended Sacred Heart Seminary in Hempstead, New York[13] and St. Pius X Preparatory Seminary in Uniondale, New York. He attended New York University and Adelphi University, but did not graduate from either.

Tucker Carlson : 

education: He went to Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, graduating in 1991 with a BA in history.

Rachel Maddow :

education: She earned a degree in public policy at Stanford in 1994. At graduation, she was awarded the John Gardner Fellowship.^[19] She was the recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship and began her postgraduate study in 1995 at Lincoln College, Oxford. She had also been awarded a Marshall Scholarship the same year but turned it down in favour of the Rhodes. In 2001, she earned a Doctor of Philosophy (DPhil) in politics at the University of Oxford

======================
 

“One of these things, is not like the other 🎶🎼🎵”

🙂

yeah, all that means is that rachel maddow should know better...

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

https://www.mediamatters.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-wrapped-year-covid-19-misinformation-right-wing-myths-and-anti-trans

Media Matters did a good job detailing a lot of the misinformation and lies that Rogan allows to be spread on his show or that he himself spreads. A good host would first off not peddle in lies and misinformation and would seek out the truth and would also be a fierce critic to those on their show that do spread misinformation.

media matters doesnt exactly come to these discussions about bias and misinformation with clean hands.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I've never cared for Rogan, but really I just don't like the format of show in general. It's no different than how I feel about Dax Shepard, who (like Rogan) comes across like someone who thinks he knows more than he actually does.

Even Maron, who I've listened to for a while, has started to grate on me a lot. Maybe it's the pandemic or just burnout on interview podcasts, idk.

like most podcasts, rogan depends on the guest.  if he's talking to comedians he gets too meta, if he's talking to mma guys he does the same thing.  and mma guys are boring anyway.

rogan also drones on for hours and hours and repeats himself constantly.  i find that part annoying.

and honestly, i have only listened to a few podcasts here and there, but generally find him to be a fine host who is willing to listen and occasionally push back and admit he's wrong when he's wrong.  like he did with zepp.  and he's willing to have people on who disagree with him, like gupta, and have good conversations with them.

i think most people who think rogan is some sort of conservative revolutionary never listen to the guy.  rogan is fine.  he's wrong about a lot of stuff, but most people are.  rachel maddow is too.  he's not hannity or rush.

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

https://www.mediamatters.org/joe-rogan-experience/joe-rogan-wrapped-year-covid-19-misinformation-right-wing-myths-and-anti-trans

Media Matters did a good job detailing a lot of the misinformation and lies that Rogan allows to be spread on his show or that he himself spreads. A good host would first off not peddle in lies and misinformation and would seek out the truth and would also be a fierce critic to those on their show that do spread misinformation.

Well, i'm sure we'll disagree about how partisan MM is.  I just reviewed their points on what he spread about Covid and even some really 'shocking' claims they show he made, I can already envision the conversation and suspect things they jumped on.  Just a few:

Quote

Rogan encouraged “healthy” young people not to get a COVID-19 vaccine

Yup, he has.  The evidence does point to the fact that individually, a healthy 21 year old should not be worried about Covid.  I still disagree with Rogan as it helps with protection of all, but it's not like if you're 21 and listening to Rogan, he gave you a death sentence.

Quote

On April 28, Rogan falsely claimed that any lockdown to prevent the spread of COVID-19 “makes things worse,”

Absolutely wrong as a whole.  In a quick read about it, he was making the case that folks were done with shutdowns and that would just encourage gatherings inside.  There is an argument about being smart about lockdowns.  You can't convince me that California is better off by shutting down their beaches.

Quote

On May 14, he falsely claimed that far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones was “right” about “actual microchips being injected into your arm to see if you have COVID-19.”

MM then sources a USA today article that says this claim is partly-false and says it's technically not a microchip, but a different type of device that once injected can give the person information to determine if you have Covid.

Quote

On June 22, Rogan dedicated an entire episode of his podcast to promoting ivermectin as a prophylactic and therapeutic for COVID-19, even though it’s an unproven and potentially dangerous treatment for the disease.

I'm not saying Ivermectin is a wonder drug, well, it is, but a wonder drug for Covid, but i'm starting to think that in a few years, it'll be known that it does benefit a user if they have Covid.  Again, not saying something like the Pfizer treatment pill isn't better, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ivermectin is pretty close, but because no one could really make money on it, Pfizer and the other drug companies helped make it look silly and promoted their new patented drugs.   As for it being potentially dangerous, that's the biggest media fallacy out there.  I know you can make the argument that it's true, but than take a look at my wife, the Moderna shot (combined with the flu and auto-immune issues already) put her in anaphylaxis shock and hospitalized her for days.  Shouldn't the media refer to it as a proven but potentially dangerous treatment for the disease?  Ivermectin, when taken as a prescribed medicine, is no more dangerous than most drugs, when taken as a prescribed too.

Quote

On August 12, Rogan promoted the baseless right-wing narrative fearmongering that immigrants crossing the U.S.-Mexico border were causing a surge in COVID-19 cases

I've seen some articles say Abbott was wrong for saying this was happening.  Yet at the time, Mexico was dealing with a surge.  We had a surge of illegals flowing into the border and the media was ripping any republican politician they could find a picture of sitting at an outdoor restaurant saying they were the real reason covid was spreading.  I'm not saying the summer surge in Texas was only due to illegal aliens, but you'll never convince me that it didn't play a part.

Edited January 14, 2022 by ewsieg

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Rogan is a great example too of how we give dubious media personalities a lot more power and influence over the discourse than we should. In that sense, he's really no different than Tucker or Hannity or Maddow. He doesn't have any real talent that any of us on this board couldn't do, he doesn't provide any real value to the society, except for the fact that he provides entertainment to those who find his schtick entertaining and subsequently sells products and services three hours at a time.

It's, for the most part, harmless , but I do think when we get into a 100-year pandemic situation, it can be very problematic to say the least.

I think people that are dumb enough to go to those people for serious medical advice are the biggest problem.  Carlson, Hannity, Rogan are all using the public to make a buck and people fall for it  There are a lot of stupid people in this country and that is hard to fix.

Maddow presents her material in a more educated and nuanced way, but she is also just an entertainer trying to make a buck.  We shouldn't go to her for news either.  

 

[mtutiger]

38 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

**
Sean Hannity :

education: Hannity attended Sacred Heart Seminary in Hempstead, New York[13] and St. Pius X Preparatory Seminary in Uniondale, New York. He attended New York University and Adelphi University, but did not graduate from either.

Tucker Carlson : 

education: He went to Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, graduating in 1991 with a BA in history.

Rachel Maddow :

education: She earned a degree in public policy at Stanford in 1994. At graduation, she was awarded the John Gardner Fellowship.^[19] She was the recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship and began her postgraduate study in 1995 at Lincoln College, Oxford. She had also been awarded a Marshall Scholarship the same year but turned it down in favour of the Rhodes. In 2001, she earned a Doctor of Philosophy (DPhil) in politics at the University of Oxford

======================
 

“One of these things, is not like the other 🎶🎼🎵”

🙂

The argument isn't so much that she's not more educated than Hannity or Tucker, but rather that she's a media personality that does a job that, at least in my opinion, doesn't contribute much to society. And, like Hannity or Tucker or Rogan, I'm not sure why so many people view them as authorities on much of anything.

But then again, I'm more of a print guy than a teevee guy or a radio guy at this point.

[Tiger337]

17 minutes ago, buddha said:

like most podcasts, rogan depends on the guest.  if he's talking to comedians he gets too meta, if he's talking to mma guys he does the same thing.  and mma guys are boring anyway.

rogan also drones on for hours and hours and repeats himself constantly.  i find that part annoying.

and honestly, i have only listened to a few podcasts here and there, but generally find him to be a fine host who is willing to listen and occasionally push back and admit he's wrong when he's wrong.  like he did with zepp.  and he's willing to have people on who disagree with him, like gupta, and have good conversations with them.

i think most people who think rogan is some sort of conservative revolutionary never listen to the guy.  rogan is fine.  he's wrong about a lot of stuff, but most people are.  rachel maddow is too.  he's not hannity or rush.

What do you think of Tucker Carlson?

I honestly don't watch much of any of these people.  I just see clips here and there and have impressions.  

Edited January 14, 2022 by Tiger337

[mtutiger]

19 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Yup, he has.  The evidence does point to the fact that individually, a healthy 21 year old should not be worried about Covid.  I still disagree with Rogan as it helps with protection of all, but it's not like if you're 21 and listening to Rogan, he gave you a death sentence.

Should healthy 21 year olds be concerned about spreading COVID to others? 

Even with reduced efficacy with respect to Omicron, my understanding is that the vaccine does help reduce spread.

Edited January 14, 2022 by mtutiger

[mtutiger]

21 minutes ago, buddha said:

like most podcasts, rogan depends on the guest.  if he's talking to comedians he gets too meta, if he's talking to mma guys he does the same thing.  and mma guys are boring anyway.

rogan also drones on for hours and hours and repeats himself constantly.  i find that part annoying.

and honestly, i have only listened to a few podcasts here and there, but generally find him to be a fine host who is willing to listen and occasionally push back and admit he's wrong when he's wrong.  like he did with zepp.  and he's willing to have people on who disagree with him, like gupta, and have good conversations with them.

i think most people who think rogan is some sort of conservative revolutionary never listen to the guy.  rogan is fine.  he's wrong about a lot of stuff, but most people are.  rachel maddow is too.  he's not hannity or rush.

I haven't listened to him much either, but to the extent that I have, this seems right. 

But I can see how his takes on COVID become problematic during a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic as well. 

[ewsieg]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Should healthy 21 year olds be concerned about spreading COVID to others? 

Even with reduced efficacy with respect to Omicron, my understanding is that the vaccine does help reduce spread.

Certainly no scientists, but my understanding was that the vaccine helped reduce (or eliminate in some people) the symptoms of the virus.  Without sneezing, coughing, runny noses, etc the spread is limited.   With the fact that the younger you are, the better the chance you'll have asympomatic Covid, in the grand scheme, how much is it really helping?

Note, my response above is something that I think is a legitimate point, but my argument to Rogan would be the fact that the vaccine has proven to be safe and would lower that chance of spread even further, it's worth taking.  

IMO, for those that listen to Rogan and then see someone freak out and say Rogan is spreading horrible misinformation about Covid and point to that, they already heard Rogan's point and agree it's legitimate, but instead of hearing a rationalized response, they just see Rogan attacked and they dig in next to him.

Luckily unlike what you'll see from MSM, Rogan than has folks like Zepps and Gupta on to make that argument.  Gupta was specifically asked if he regretted going on the show as it didn't change Rogan's mind and he responded stating he felt Rogan was dug in already, but it gave him an opportunity to talk with his listeners.

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Certainly no scientists, but my understanding was that the vaccine helped reduce (or eliminate in some people) the symptoms of the virus.  Without sneezing, coughing, runny noses, etc the spread is limited.   With the fact that the younger you are, the better the chance you'll have asympomatic Covid, in the grand scheme, how much is it really helping?

I mean, if it helps even a small amount, that's an argument in order to get the vaccine. Especially when it isn't clear to me what the argument is against a younger person getting a vaccine.

[oblong]

36 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Should healthy 21 year olds be concerned about spreading COVID to others? 

Even with reduced efficacy with respect to Omicron, my understanding is that the vaccine does help reduce spread.

it absolutely does.  Telling 21 year olds to not get vaccinated because the risk is "low" is like telling them to not wear seat belts.  Yes the risk is small but it's also not zero.  My wife has had patients in the hospital under 30.  Healthy patients.

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

Luckily unlike what you'll see from MSM, Rogan than has folks like Zepps and Gupta on to make that argument.  Gupta was specifically asked if he regretted going on the show as it didn't change Rogan's mind and he responded stating he felt Rogan was dug in already, but it gave him an opportunity to talk with his listeners.

Certainly, it's important to meet people where they are. If you are someone in Sanjay Gupta's position and your goal is to try to educate and hopefully change a few minds, you can't just stick to familiar outlets, you have to sometimes go places where the audience may be less receptive.

Having said all that, it doesn't really change my view that Rogan isn't a very well informed person or that he doesn't know what he's talking about on COVID a lot of the time.

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, oblong said:

it absolutely does.  Telling 21 year olds to not get vaccinated because the risk is "low" is like telling them to not wear seat belts.  Yes the risk is small but it's also not zero.  My wife has had patients in the hospital under 30.  Healthy patients.

Not to get too personal, but I'm 33 years old and am just about recovered from a breakthrough case of COVID. Despite being in the presence of others while initially showing symptoms, including family members who are older than I, none of them yet has started showing symptoms or has tested positive. My wife, who I live with and don't really have the choice of isolating from, has tested negative throughout this whole thing.

I can't say that it would have played out exactly this way had I (or others) not been vaccinated. I'm not 100% sure it would have been as mild, and I'm even less sure that I wouldn't have given it to others.

That's my argument against Rogan's point right there... it isn't about me dingus, it's about everyone else in my life.

Edited January 14, 2022 by mtutiger

[smr-nj]

Thank you. Exactly mtutiger

[oblong]

We know several people who have had it where nobody else in the family got it.  One friend went to Mexico with her husband for their 25th.  Tested negative prior to going.  He tested positive before coming back.  He has no symptoms but had to stay at the hotel, on their dime, isolated.  He can't even go on the balcony.  They bring food to him and leave it at the door.  She never tested positive.  He was tested every day while in Mexico before a negative allowed him to leave.  This was just last week so probably omicron.

 

 

[ewsieg]

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/14/michigan-covid-long-term-care-facilities/6527680001/

Remember the argument that Florida had a 'headstart' so the fact they are even close to Michigan when it comes to deaths per 100k, well, doesn't look like we're even close anymore.  

Running the numbers, looks like this bumps us up to 5th worse with Louisiana.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

I'm listening to LeDuff right now talk about it.  He's saying that this is the exact type of data that put Cuomo in hot water, the major difference was with Cuomo, he knew about it and lied about it.  In Michigan, we simply chose not to put the resources in to get this data.  For instance, depending on your size you didn't have to report to the state how many folks died of Covid, this report dug into those smaller sites.  

 

[buddha]

2 hours ago, ewsieg said:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2022/01/14/michigan-covid-long-term-care-facilities/6527680001/

Remember the argument that Florida had a 'headstart' so the fact they are even close to Michigan when it comes to deaths per 100k, well, doesn't look like we're even close anymore.  

Running the numbers, looks like this bumps us up to 5th worse with Louisiana.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

I'm listening to LeDuff right now talk about it.  He's saying that this is the exact type of data that put Cuomo in hot water, the major difference was with Cuomo, he knew about it and lied about it.  In Michigan, we simply chose not to put the resources in to get this data.  For instance, depending on your size you didn't have to report to the state how many folks died of Covid, this report dug into those smaller sites.  

 

impossible, michigan has a mask mandate...same as california.