1984Echoes Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Archie said: Trump might not add voters as much as Biden (or Harris) will lose them. And back to pfife's point: Trump may generate high turnout on his side... but he will generate even higher turnout against him. It doesn't matter if Biden or Harris or anyone else is leading the Dem ticket, there will be no lost votes as long as Trump is the Republican nominee. The only way to get Biden/Harris/Dem nominee to lose votes in 2024 is to get Trump off of the ticket. Which also says that in 2022, since TFG obviously won't be in this vote, that it might be really easy for the Republicans to take back both the House and Senate. At least how it's currently going for Dems... in general. They (Dems) need to pass their infrastructure and BBB bills soon. To have any decent chance in 2022... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, oblong said: ... Let the D infighting lead to another Bernie type to run third party... Until that happens, moot point. Also, if TFG is on the ticket, yeah, he needs to add voters. Because he's already lost more votes than he can make up for. He's not getting more than he got in 2020. And the Dems are NOT losing votes in 2024... As long as HE is on the ticket. Take him off and add Haley... then we can start talking about Dems losing votes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: And back to pfife's point: Trump may generate high turnout on his side... but he will generate even higher turnout against him. It doesn't matter if Biden or Harris or anyone else is leading the Dem ticket, there will be no lost votes as long as Trump is the Republican nominee. 100%. Trump is a turnout machine... not just in favor, but also in opposition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Also, if TFG is on the ticket, yeah, he needs to add voters. Because he's already lost more votes than he can make up for. He's not getting more than he got in 2020. And the Dems are NOT losing votes in 2024... I won't say he'll get less voters, but a hypothetical 2024 win is going to be different in demographic composition than his 2016 win and 2020 loss. It just will be.... just as it was for every other President who ran for reelection or, in the case of Cleveland, ran for the office again. People talk about absolutes with this stuff, but there are changes going on under the hood all the time. So yeah, he'll need to do some addition... he has avenues to do it, but he will need to do it Edited October 10, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Until that happens, moot point. Also, if TFG is on the ticket, yeah, he needs to add voters. Because he's already lost more votes than he can make up for. He's not getting more than he got in 2020. And the Dems are NOT losing votes in 2024... As long as HE is on the ticket. Take him off and add Haley... then we can start talking about Dems losing votes... Trump got 9M more votes in 2020 and almost a point higher of the share. the 2020 election was pretty much as close as 2016. After 5 years of utter bullshit and 2 impeachment’s… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 55 minutes ago, oblong said: Trump got 9M more votes in 2020 and almost a point higher of the share. Biden got 16M more than Hillary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) The board won't let me edit my post, so.... Biden got 16M more than Hillary. He (or someone else) could widen in that in four years, believe it or not. The composition of the electorate changes cycle to cycle. I legit hate the Trump, you can never underestimate him, I get it. But while people ascribe an almost God-like status to the guy, Donald Trump is not immune to the changes that happen in any four year cycle. He will have to build a different coalition in 2024 than he did in 2020, just as he did in 2020 versus his coalition in 2016. I wouldn't count him out, but I just feel like people in this thread are treating the guy a little more like Moses than they should be... he's an existential threat, but the same laws apply to him as any other politician IMO Edited October 10, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, Archie said: Whoever was in office would have lost that many jobs or more because of covid. A democrat POTUS probably would have lost more because they were more in favor of shutting things down and giving people more benefits for sitting home and not working. You have to look at what the economy and job situation was like under Trump before covid. The economy was booming, stock markets soaring and unemployment at all time low. Then covid happened. I get that a lot of people don't like Trump but still need to look at things realistically. I know he's a dipschmidt (my spelling is off) but under his presidency some good things did happen that a lot of people liked and our country benefited from. I'll keep it in the real world rather than the hypothetical you made up. Trump lost millions of jobs. A fact that seems to push you right into a fantasy world where Democrats would have done the same thing but sadly for you they didn't here in reality. Again, worst job losses in 100 years, and deadliest year ever. That's reality, not a hypothetical of convenience for losing politics fights on the internet. Everyone knows it didn't have to be that way. You do too. W and Obama both managed to not shit the bed in pandemics. Trump sucked. Edited October 10, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Its unbelievable to me that people hate a person so much they refuse to see what really happened. You can't compare covid to anything in Bush or Obama's terms. Covid is comparable to Spanish flu pandemic in the early 1900s. What was Trump or anyone supposed to do with covid that would have fixed it? You want to place the blame then let us know what was supposed to happen to prevent covid deaths and infection of virus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: The board won't let me edit my post, so.... Biden got 16M more than Hillary. He (or someone else) could widen in that in four years, believe it or not. The composition of the electorate changes cycle to cycle. I legit hate the Trump, you can never underestimate him, I get it. But while people ascribe an almost God-like status to the guy, Donald Trump is not immune to the changes that happen in any four year cycle. He will have to build a different coalition in 2024 than he did in 2020, just as he did in 2020 versus his coalition in 2016. I wouldn't count him out, but I just feel like people in this thread are treating the guy a little more like Moses than they should be... he's an existential threat, but the same laws apply to him as any other politician IMO What laws? Electoral laws meant he never should have been on a ballot. I guess I don’t understand your point. People here are saying Trump’s got a very good shot at reelection or whatever you’d call it and you appear to agree but want to throw out some “but..”. After the polling disasters we saw in 2016 and 2020 I don’t have much appetite for political analysts who think it’s still 1996. I’ve unfollowed Nate and the 538 crew and a few others. I don’t think they know what they are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Archie said: Its unbelievable to me that people hate a person so much they refuse to see what really happened. You can't compare covid to anything in Bush or Obama's terms. Covid is comparable to Spanish flu pandemic in the early 1900s. What was Trump or anyone supposed to do with covid that would have fixed it? You want to place the blame then let us know what was supposed to happen to prevent covid deaths and infection of virus? Trump himself said it was the flu. Maybe if he hadn't done that and presidented as if that was true his numbers wouldn't have sucked. Luckily he has people like you to whitewash his presidency. Edited October 11, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) This was another thing he shouldn't have done. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/trump-administration-passed-chance-lock-more-pfizer-vaccine-doses-n1250357 They also had leaked emails where they said they wanted people to get the virus. You don't get to roll up and act like that shit never happened just to try to be less wrong than normal on the internet. I guess if I was urinating in that wind, I'd make up a whole nother world where someone else did exactly the same shit as trump Edited October 11, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Here's a hilarious one, Democrat would have hired Scott Atlas LMFAO What a great argument arch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, oblong said: What laws? Electoral laws meant he never should have been on a ballot. I guess I don’t understand your point. People here are saying Trump’s got a very good shot at reelection or whatever you’d call it and you appear to agree but want to throw out some “but..”. After the polling disasters we saw in 2016 and 2020 I don’t have much appetite for political analysts who think it’s still 1996. I’ve unfollowed Nate and the 538 crew and a few others. I don’t think they know what they are talking about. I'm just trying to stick to the facts, no emotion... Trump isn't God... not every trend that happened in 2020 redounded to his benefit. Reminds me of Vito Corleone dressing down Johnny Fontaine. Calm down. Edited October 11, 2021 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben9753 Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Imagine being a Republican and lecturing others on hating. As if Obama and Hillary Clinton never even existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 The precinct that I live in went from Clinton +2 to Biden +16 in four years. Change happens, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRivdogs Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Judging from the Trumpublican Biden signs I’ve seen in the boonies….they have absolutely no right to complain. Snowflakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 44 minutes ago, pfife said: This was another thing he shouldn't have done. https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/trump-administration-passed-chance-lock-more-pfizer-vaccine-doses-n1250357 They also had leaked emails where they said they wanted people to get the virus. You don't get to roll up and act like that shit never happened just to try to be less wrong than normal on the internet. I guess if I was urinating in that wind, I'd make up a whole nother world where someone else did exactly the same shit as trump You are looking for anything you can find to point fingers at Trump. I asked a simple question....what could he or his administration do to stop the virus spread or deaths from the virus? The Trump administration fast tracked the vaccine. Now you want to blame him for not having enough? There were several vaccines and the US had allocations for enough doses. The vaccine was not available for about 10 to 11 months after everything blew up. If Democrats or anyone else besides Trump were in office and closed down the country what would have happen to the economy and unemployment? Look what happened to Michigan when Whitmer closed down the state. Unemployment soared. Good Night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewsieg Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Archie said: Its unbelievable to me that people hate a person so much they refuse to see what really happened. You can't compare covid to anything in Bush or Obama's terms. Covid is comparable to Spanish flu pandemic in the early 1900s. What was Trump or anyone supposed to do with covid that would have fixed it? I actually agree with you here. Pfife mentioning W and Obama did better with pandemics, like we can point to a single thing Obama did right which prevented millions of deaths because of Ebola? 2 hours ago, Archie said: You want to place the blame then let us know what was supposed to happen to prevent covid deaths and infection of virus? And this is where you lost me. IDK, maybe wear a mask, understand and encourage precautions. Additionally, don't play politics to the point that when a vaccine comes out (which politically you could claim as a win and tout), your folks decide to become stupid liberal hippy idiots that don't want anything 'unnatural' in your body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Archie said: You are looking for anything you can find to point fingers at Trump. I asked a simple question....what could he or his administration do to stop the virus spread or deaths from the virus? You, in fact, are looking for anything to defend Trump, including looking at fake worlds where you literally make up how a Democrat would have handled COVID the exact same as Trump. If you're going to make accusations of grasping for straws, the least you could do is not do exactly what you're accusing others of. I answered the question last week quite extensively, and offered 3 answers already yesterday. I'm not surprised when your argument is "Dems would have done the same" and I post a report about how trump turned down 100m Vx doses and Biden actually purchased 500m doses that you'd go ahead and ignore the answer I provided. I'm not "looking for anything" - I'm looking at what he did as President during COVID - per the conversation we are having. You on the other hand are looking at fake presidents that in fake worlds in order to defend the real life disaster. Sweet choice champ. Edited October 11, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 8 hours ago, ewsieg said: I actually agree with you here. Pfife mentioning W and Obama did better with pandemics, like we can point to a single thing Obama did right which prevented millions of deaths because of Ebola? Yes, he developed a whole pandemic plan that the trump admin ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, ewsieg said: And this is where you lost me. IDK, maybe wear a mask, understand and encourage precautions. Additionally, don't play politics to the point that when a vaccine comes out (which politically you could claim as a win and tout), your folks decide to become stupid liberal hippy idiots that don't want anything 'unnatural' in your body. He didn't lose you, he lost. It's a garbage argument and even he knows it. That's why he strategically ignores all real evidence showing him he's wrong, and literally creates fake "evidence" about what would have happened if a Democrat was president then. He's here literally arguing trump had no choices in the things trump did as president which is obviously a joke. Edited October 11, 2021 by pfife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Remember when Trump argued against widespread testing b/c it made the numbers look bad? Yeah, you don't get to just claim a Democrat would have done the same thing to relentlessly defend and make excuses for Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 You haven't showed evidence of anything other than your opinion. I get it that you hate Trump. I could really care less and it doesn't matter. There's a new guy (ok he's actually been in office for decades but has nothing to show for it) in town that says he's going to fix everything. I only see things getting worse but we have a group of people that's happy about that and they are not being offended by mean Twitter comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfife Posted October 11, 2021 Share Posted October 11, 2021 Archie has argued both of these over the past week or so: 1) The economic numbers under Trump were trash b/c of Democrats shutting down the economy, and Trump didn't do that even though reporting totally says he did. 2) Even though the democrats shut down the economy (TM Archie) they would have done exactly the same as Trump (not shut down economy TM Archie) if they were president Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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